OT: Good Bye and Good Riddance ....

Quoth JT:

Quoted message said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Hate 'em both - he's a corrupt scumbag and the political process is
severely crippled.

D'ohBoy

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

JT

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D'ohBoy said:

Quoth JT:

Quoted message said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Hate 'em both - he's a corrupt scumbag and the political process is
severely crippled.

Yeah. I just mean that without dealing with the latter we're going to
be plagued with more scum in the future.

JT

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D'ohBoy said:

Quoth JT:

Quoted message said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Hate 'em both - he's a corrupt scumbag and the political process is
severely crippled.

And the players make the game, in this instance, so it's not possible
to separate them.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

D'ohBoy said:

Quoth JT:

Quoted message said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Hate 'em both - he's a corrupt scumbag and the political process is
severely crippled.

And the players make the game, in this instance, so it's not possible
to separate them.

And, sad to say, in many cases the game either corrupts the players or
drives those trying to "do the right thing" out of public office.

IMO, a good beginning would be term limits that are strictly enforced
(say, three terms in the house and two terms in the senate) and a
longer "cooling off period" after leaving office prior to being able to
be a lobbyist or working for a PAC.

Quoted message said:

And, sad to say, in many cases the game either corrupts the players or
drives those trying to "do the right thing" out of public office.

IMO, a good beginning would be term limits that are strictly enforced
(say, three terms in the house and two terms in the senate) and a
longer "cooling off period" after leaving office prior to being able to
be a lobbyist or working for a PAC.

Term limits have their problems too. When legislators are not in
office long enough to understand the issues they are voting on, their
votes will depend on the recommendations of lobbyists and political
hacks.

For instance, here in Ohio some of the legislators can't understand why
school funding is a problem when they just approved so much money for
schools. What they approved was construction spending (which was
largely directed to politically well connected contractors) rather
than operational spending.

My brother teaches in a brand new High School building. However, the
system does not have enough science text books to allow students to
take books home to do homework !

My proposal for political reform would be to allow 'no-confidence'
votes like the european democracies. The American system is so 'winner
take all'. Once George Bush was re-elected we had him for four years
pretty much no matter how un-popular he is. Lobbysists may be less
likely to put so much money into politics if they knew that their
expensive purchases could be easily replaced by the voters.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

The player is why the game is corrupt.

Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American people
as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but wants to
revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he believes about
the current repug regime.

Can you imagine the uproar if Tom Delay had PUNCHED AND ASSAULTED a Capitol
Hill policeman? (Especially if he'd said "Don't you know who I am?" in the
process?!?) But if you're a Democrat...and Black...and a Woman...not to
mention totally frickin' nuts, you get a pass.

When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/, get back to
us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican drummed out of office
by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political enemies.

Once he was forced out of his leadership role (by purely bogus, politically
motivated charges most think), why stay on? Let the greater "visiting of
evil" begin! LOL

NF

Nuckin' Futz said:

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American people
as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but wants to
revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he believes about
the current repug regime.

Can you imagine the uproar if Tom Delay had PUNCHED AND ASSAULTED a Capitol
Hill policeman? (Especially if he'd said "Don't you know who I am?" in the
process?!?) But if you're a Democrat...and Black...and a Woman...not to
mention totally frickin' nuts, you get a pass.

When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/, get back to
us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican drummed out of office
by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political enemies.

It cracks me up when righteous Republicans support their own scum. Such
hypocrisy.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

Nuckin' Futz said:

Once he was forced out of his leadership role (by purely bogus, politically
motivated charges most think), why stay on? Let the greater "visiting of
evil" begin! LOL

NF

Haha!! This is rich. Payback is a [censored].

Remember Whitewater (that eventually turned into Monicagate) and party
hack Ken Starr? Tom Delay was one of the movers and shakers behind the
Clinton impeachment in Congress.

Where did you get the statistics for "...bogus, politically motivated
charges MOST think?" You've been relying too much on Faux News.

G.T. said:

Nuckin' Futz said:

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American people
as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but wants
to revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he believes
about the current repug regime.

Can you imagine the uproar if Tom Delay had PUNCHED AND ASSAULTED a
Capitol Hill policeman? (Especially if he'd said "Don't you know
who I am?" in the process?!?) But if you're a Democrat...and
Black...and a Woman...not to mention totally frickin' nuts, you get
a pass. When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/,
get
back to us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican
drummed out of office by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political
enemies.

It cracks me up when righteous Republicans support their own scum. Such
hypocrisy.

Not at all. If Delay is proven to have broken a law -- any law -- or even
House rules for that matter, then he deserves what he gets. (Who's
"supporting" Duke Cunningham, for example?) But you Dems sure like to
convict Republicans without trials, don't you?

The HYPOCRISY is excusing bad behavior because of party or race or gender.
Just look at Louisiana.

NF

Nuckin' Futz said:

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American people
as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but wants to
revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he believes about
the current repug regime.

......
When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/, get back to
us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican drummed out of office
by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political enemies.

Once he was forced out of his leadership role (by purely bogus, politically
motivated charges most think), why stay on? Let the greater "visiting of
evil" begin! LOL

This is also part of the problem - brain-dead partisan voters (on both
sides!) who insist that their guy is completely right and the others
are all wrong.

I love this country and I hate seeing it ripped apart. What is wrong
with rational though and intelligent discussion???????

damyth said:

Nuckin' Futz said:

Once he was forced out of his leadership role (by purely bogus,
politically motivated charges most think), why stay on? Let the
greater "visiting of evil" begin! LOL

NF

Haha!! This is rich. Payback is a [censored].

Remember Whitewater (that eventually turned into Monicagate) and party
hack Ken Starr? Tom Delay was one of the movers and shakers behind
the Clinton impeachment in Congress.

Are you saying that no laws were broken in the Whitewater case? That
perjury should be excused. (And it wasn't "just about sex with Monica";
Clinton also lied in cases brought by other women. Were they ALL "party
hacks"?)

Quoted message said:

Where did you get the statistics for "...bogus, politically motivated
charges MOST think?" You've been relying too much on Faux News.

When one of 'em sticks, then you can talk. (One of the charges involves a
law that wasn't even on the books, for example.)

I'm no fan of Delay. If I bothered to /start a thread/ about him on a
cycling tech group of all things, then you could probably assume I'm more
than a little unbalanced (a la D'oh Baby). THAT is what provoked a reply
from me.

NF

TR wondered, tremulously:

Quoted message said:

I love this country and I hate seeing it ripped apart. What is wrong
with rational though and intelligent discussion???????

Nothing wrong with those - just that money and power are much easier
masters to serve.

Feingold in ''08!

D'ohBoy

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nuckin' Futz said:

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American
people as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but
wants to revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he
believes about the current repug regime.

Can you imagine the uproar if Tom Delay had PUNCHED AND ASSAULTED a
Capitol Hill policeman? (Especially if he'd said "Don't you know who
I am?" in the process?!?) But if you're a Democrat...and Black...and
a Woman...not to mention totally frickin' nuts, you get a pass.

Not to mention being grabbed first by the cop and striking in
self-defense.

Quoted message said:

When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/, get
back to us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican drummed
out of office by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political enemies.

If by "effective" you mean sleazy, unethical and a liar then we are in
agreement.

Quoted message said:

Once he was forced out of his leadership role (by purely bogus,
politically motivated charges most think), why stay on? Let the
greater "visiting of evil" begin! LOL

That and he obviously was going to lose if he ran for re-election.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, sad to say, in many cases the game either corrupts the players or
drives those trying to "do the right thing" out of public office.

IMO, a good beginning would be term limits that are strictly enforced
(say, three terms in the house and two terms in the senate) and a
longer "cooling off period" after leaving office prior to being able to
be a lobbyist or working for a PAC.

Term limits have their problems too. When legislators are not in
office long enough to understand the issues they are voting on, their
votes will depend on the recommendations of lobbyists and political
hacks.

For instance, here in Ohio some of the legislators can't understand why
school funding is a problem when they just approved so much money for
schools. What they approved was construction spending (which was
largely directed to politically well connected contractors) rather
than operational spending.

My brother teaches in a brand new High School building. However, the
system does not have enough science text books to allow students to
take books home to do homework !

My proposal for political reform would be to allow 'no-confidence'
votes like the european democracies.

Yes, the Parliamentary System, as practiced in Canada, as well as the
UK, Europe, Japan, etc..

Quoted message said:

The American system is so 'winner
take all'. Once George Bush was re-elected we had him for four years
pretty much no matter how un-popular he is.

Under the Parliamentary System, a change in the head of the government
(aka, Prime Minister) requires a change in the make-up of the
legislature. IOW, de facto term limits.

IMO, I don't see the US going this way. Fears of "instability", etc.,
etc. fueled by the status quo. We'll have cradle-to-grave national
health care before we go Parliamentary (but, don't hold yer breath on
the health care thing, either!).

How 'bout a single six year term for the Prez (keep 'em busy with the
business at hand, not running for re-election as soon as they take
office) and "no exceptions" term limits for the Congress?

Quoted message said:

Lobbysists may be less
likely to put so much money into politics if they knew that their
expensive purchases could be easily replaced by the voters.

I wonder if this would be true. Any comments from our
European/UK/Canadian posters?

G.T. said:

Nuckin' Futz said:

D'ohBoy said:

.... and, Tom, don't let the door hit you in the ass!

D'ohBoy

Who realizes Mr. Delay will visit more evil upon the American people
as a lobbyist in DC than he ever could as a Congressman, but wants to
revel for a moment in the confirmation of everything he believes about
the current repug regime.

Can you imagine the uproar if Tom Delay had PUNCHED AND ASSAULTED a Capitol
Hill policeman? (Especially if he'd said "Don't you know who I am?" in the
process?!?) But if you're a Democrat...and Black...and a Woman...not to
mention totally frickin' nuts, you get a pass.

When Delay is actually /convicted/ of /doing something wrong/, get back to
us. Meantime, it's just another effective Republican drummed out of office
by a biased media and Dirty Democrat political enemies.

It cracks me up when righteous Republicans support their own scum. Such
hypocrisy.

Today's Republican Party:Never before have so few brain cells worked so
hard on the behalf of so many scumballs. ;-)

The aptly named Nuckin' Futz said:

But you Dems sure like to
convict Republicans without trials, don't you?

Oh, just like with the Clintons. Ooooops!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lobbysists may be less
likely to put so much money into politics if they knew that their
expensive purchases could be easily replaced by the voters.

I wonder if this would be true. Any comments from our
European/UK/Canadian posters?

I actually got this idea by talking to a couple of Canadian friends of
mine. His job brought him down to the States for a few years and he
told me that he is amazed at how politics is such a big deal in the US.
I got to thinking about how our system differs from theirs and the
effect those differences might have.

Quoted message said:

From these considerations I came up with the theory that an investor

willing to buy a Government is willing to pay more if has some
guarantees that the Government he bought will stay in place for awhile.

I don't think we will make a change either. I'm reading an interesting
book "America Right or Wrong: An Anatomy of American Nationalism". In
the book it points out that many Americans have an almost religous
belief in the correctness of whatever America does. I can't see us
being willing to admit that other forms of democracy might actually be
better than ours.