Cassette removal

Ian B. said:

Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's
a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far
out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
missing something?

Some lovely photos of it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/sets/72057594097997415/

These are actual pics of your bike, yes?

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any help,

From the pics you posted, it really looks like a freewheel, not a
cassette to me. If it were a cassette, you would have something looking
like (a slightly dirtier version of) this on the outside:
http://www.gtgtandems.com/parts/pics/FW8288.jpg

A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
as deep (because it doesn't need to be).

This is a freewheel tool:
http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr1.jpg

This is a cassette tool:
http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr5.jpg

HTH

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Ian B. said:

Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's
a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far
out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
missing something?

Some lovely photos of it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/sets/72057594097997415/

Thanks for any help,
Ian

Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
lockrings off.

Jim Price said:

A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
as deep (because it doesn't need to be).

My 'cassette' tool was purchased to fit my first Shimano freewheel in
1990. I was surprised that it fitted my first Shimano HG cassette
several years later. Not as long I'd agree but spline pattern close
enough to work if not the same.

Ian B. said:

Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but
can't seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g.
if you you look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif
(I know it's a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut
sticks too far out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am
I missing something?

Some lovely photos of it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/sets/72057594097997415/

Thanks for any help,
Ian

Looks like an older Shimano thingy:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=48
Second photo from bottom.

You need a Parks tools FR-1, apparently.
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=4&item=FR-1

--
Mike

Jim Price said:

These are actual pics of your bike, yes?

Yep. I got the tool kit you mentioned in that other thread from
decathlon, and I was trying to check that the other stuff I was planning
to get would be compatible...

Quoted message said:

From the pics you posted, it really looks like a freewheel, not a
cassette to me. If it were a cassette, you would have something looking
like (a slightly dirtier version of) this on the outside:
http://www.gtgtandems.com/parts/pics/FW8288.jpg

A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting to
a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is not
as deep (because it doesn't need to be).

This is a freewheel tool:
http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr1.jpg

This is a cassette tool:
http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/tlfr5.jpg

Yes, looking at Sheldon's site you're definitely right, it is a
freewheel and not a cassette. Good job I got the tool kit before I
ordered anything else!

If I used a proper freewheel tool would that just fit over the locknuts
and allow me to take the freewheel off? Most guides on this assume a q/r
skewer, something I don't have!

MSeries said:

Ian B. said:

Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but
can't seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if
you you look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I
know it's a freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut
sticks too far out from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am
I missing something?

Some lovely photos of it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/sets/72057594097997415/

Thanks for any help,
Ian

Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
lockrings off.

I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

MSeries said:

Jim Price said:

A shimano cassette removal tool has a different sized splined fitting
to a freewheel tool, and a different diameter for that matter, and is
not as deep (because it doesn't need to be).

My 'cassette' tool was purchased to fit my first Shimano freewheel in
1990. I was surprised that it fitted my first Shimano HG cassette
several years later. Not as long I'd agree but spline pattern close
enough to work if not the same.

The freewheel tool is the one with the smaller diameter, so you would
stand a chance of getting it into some lockrings, and the fact that
lockrings need less force to remove is on your side. They both have the
same number of splines, but the spline width is different.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Ian B. said:

Yes, looking at Sheldon's site you're definitely right, it is a
freewheel and not a cassette. Good job I got the tool kit before I
ordered anything else!

If I used a proper freewheel tool would that just fit over the locknuts
and allow me to take the freewheel off?

Yes, most of them have to be deep enough to reach over the lock nuts.

Quoted message said:

Most guides on this assume a q/r skewer, something I don't have!

That's not a problem - as long as it has a big enough hole for a
standard 10mm axle to go through (which is normal). If it says "park
fr1" on it, it will work.

Given that its a freewheel, its likely to be on pretty tight, so be
prepared to us a little penetrating oil and a lot of force.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Ian B. said:

I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

It is clearly a freewheel.
I have a number of freewheel removers that fit shimano. One is a cheap
one that will only fit over the axle so locknut and spacers etc have to
be removed. The other is a more expensive but much better shimano one
which fits over the lock nuts. It also fits hyperglide and later
cassette lock rings (again without removing the lock nuts).
By the look of your photos, removing the lock nut would be a good idea.
You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

Good luck.

...d

[1]Thus spake the voice of experience.

After serious thinking Ian B. wrote :

Quoted message said:

MSeries said:

Ian B. said:

Arghh, this is confusing me. I'm trying to remove my cassette but can't
seem to get the cassette removal tool over the locknut. E.g. if you you
look at this picture http://www.bikewebsite.com/rhubfw.gif (I know it's a
freewheel and not a cassette) the right most locknut sticks too far out
from the 'freewheel' to get the tool over.

Am I just using a badly designed tool, do I have a strange bike or am I
missing something?

Some lovely photos of it here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/sets/72057594097997415/

Thanks for any help,
Ian

Doesn't look like any Shimano cassette I've used, I can't remember what
freewheels look like, it's been 16 years since I used one !!! Take the
lockrings off.

I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

Don't try - it won't help. You have a freewheel.

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what it is) free access.

Bryan

Bryan expressed precisely :

Quoted message said:

This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove
the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling
the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what
it is) free access.

The most important thing is to understand the tool Ian has (which I
don't think any of us do - photo?).

If he's using a *cassette* remover, then your advice won't really help;
Jim's explanation is accurate.

If he's using a *freewheel* tool (many of which also work on cassettes,
as Jim correctly points out) then it's presumably not a Park FR-1 or a
Shimano tool - both of which will fit over the locknuts and spacers. If
it's Something Else then it should still not be necessary to remove the
entire axle, just the r/h locknut and spacer(s). Removing the whole lot
is just making extra work, and possibly inviting more grief for an
evidently inexperienced mechanic, IMO; if he fails to get the block off
(wrong tool altogether, e.g.) then he'll find it hard to reassemble his
hub with the freewheel in situ.

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

David Martin came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Ian B. said:

I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

It is clearly a freewheel.

Quoted message said:

You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... 😉

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Paul - censored said:

David Martin came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Ian B. said:

I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

It is clearly a freewheel.

Quoted message said:

You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... 😉

Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
remover just jumps off.

The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
though.

...d

Quoted message said:

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Paul - censored said:

I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and
use the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with
little to no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in
painful ways", and therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... 😉

I did however managed to ruin a perfectly good (although self-evidently
not for this task) vice in this manner; the remover bent the jaws apart,
bending the vice screw and the two parallelising bars in the process. :-(

I promptly went out and bought a bigger vice.

R.

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Martin () said:

Paul - censored said:

David Martin came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Ian B. wrote:
> I can't, I tried! At least not on the side I need to. Unless I'm missing
> something and just need the right combination of which way to turn stuff.

It is clearly a freewheel.

Quoted message said:

You will need the thin walled freewheel remover otherwise (and then a
big spanner). It is normally good practise to put the axle nut back on
behind the freewheel remover. You will be exerting a *lot* of force and
if the remover slips from the axle this can lead to sudden
misapplication of great force in painful ways.[1]

I generally lock the remover in a vice, then put the wheel on top and use
the diameter of the wheel to remove freewheels quite easily, with little to
no need for the "sudden misapplication of great force in painful ways", and
therefore don't resort to spanner-waving. YMMV ... 😉

Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
remover just jumps off.

The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
though.

And further note that "vice" != Workmate.

I used to use a large adjustable spanner boosted by a Bickerton seat
tube...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
np: "Ghost Of The Yellow Dog", Mick Farren & Jack Lancaster

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
David Martin ([email hidden]) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tis a good plan. The bit about putting the nut on the back is
particularly applicable to the old Atom freewheels. Otherwise the
remover just jumps off.

The vice trick is a good one. It is predicated on access to a vice
though.

And further note that "vice" != Workmate.

I managed using a workmate. I found that the splinned thingy was a
perfect fit in a spark-plug spanner (socket), and the socket wrench went
in the workmate.

Even had somewhere to sit - the opposite end of the workmate from the
wrench.

Simon D said:

Bryan expressed precisely :

Quoted message said:

This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove
the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling
the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what
it is) free access.

The most important thing is to understand the tool Ian has (which I
don't think any of us do - photo?).

If he's using a *cassette* remover, then your advice won't really help;
Jim's explanation is accurate.

If he's using a *freewheel* tool (many of which also work on cassettes,
as Jim correctly points out) then it's presumably not a Park FR-1 or a
Shimano tool - both of which will fit over the locknuts and spacers. If
it's Something Else then it should still not be necessary to remove the
entire axle, just the r/h locknut and spacer(s). Removing the whole lot
is just making extra work, and possibly inviting more grief for an
evidently inexperienced mechanic, IMO; if he fails to get the block off
(wrong tool altogether, e.g.) then he'll find it hard to reassemble his
hub with the freewheel in situ.

I do have a cassette remover, pic here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/123145773/in/set-72057594097997415/

I will get myself a proper freewheel remover, and now I've played around
with the hub a bit I think I may have more fun whilst I'm at it do a hub
overhaul, it's really pretty grimy in there.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

quote='Ian B.'Simon D said:

Bryan expressed precisely :

Quoted message said:

This may sound daft, or I may be missing something, but why not remove
the axel, by undoing the locknuts on the other side and then pulling
the axel out, allowing your freewheel tool (for that is definitely what
it is) free access.

The most important thing is to understand the tool Ian has (which I
don't think any of us do - photo?).

If he's using a *cassette* remover, then your advice won't really help;
Jim's explanation is accurate.

If he's using a *freewheel* tool (many of which also work on cassettes,
as Jim correctly points out) then it's presumably not a Park FR-1 or a
Shimano tool - both of which will fit over the locknuts and spacers. If
it's Something Else then it should still not be necessary to remove the
entire axle, just the r/h locknut and spacer(s). Removing the whole lot
is just making extra work, and possibly inviting more grief for an
evidently inexperienced mechanic, IMO; if he fails to get the block off
(wrong tool altogether, e.g.) then he'll find it hard to reassemble his
hub with the freewheel in situ.

I do have a cassette remover, pic here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33283542@N00/123145773/in/set-72057594097997415/

I will get myself a proper freewheel remover, and now I've played around
with the hub a bit I think I may have more fun whilst I'm at it do a hub
overhaul, it's really pretty grimy in there.

Thanks for all the help everyone![/QUOTE]

That's a cassete reomver! :-) My advice to remnove the avel was based on the assumption that you couldn't remove the locknut as the freewheel was in the way.

Clean the hub up and you'll be amazed at the difference :-)

Bryan