Kitchen Sink

citizen142 said:

I like to read the of the adventures and cycling tours of the people
on:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

especially on long winter evenings. The thing that strikes me most is
just how much they carry. They lovingly show photos of their 'steeds'
with what seems to be excessive luggage. Front panniers, rear
panniers, handlebar bag and the latest bargain from B&Q in kitchen
sinks!

I am assuming now that this is a non-camping tour but I have always
worked on the formula: one on, two off, i.e.: socks three, pants
three, vests three, cycling tops three, shorts three, etc. and with
this I have toured for 3 weeks. I also reason that it would be the
same for three months or more.

Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort
every night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away
with?

If I'm not taking the tent, inflatable mattress and sleeping bag etc.,
then everything I need fits in one pannier, unless its both cold and
raining, in which case said pannier would be about half full. Apart from
the fleece, everything would fit in one washing machine load when I got
back, so weight wise I suppose it can't be more than 5 to 7 lbs (I'm not
including stuff like a lock, which I would take on every journey, and I
don't put my bathroom bag in the washing machine). I've never actually
done a non-camping tour, so I normally take 2 panniers and a barbag.
I've not toured for more than 2 weeks at a stretch, though.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

What capacity panniers?

--
Bob C
"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

citizen142 said:

I like to read the of the adventures and cycling tours of the people on:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

especially on long winter evenings. The thing that strikes me most is
just how much they carry. They lovingly show photos of their 'steeds'
with what seems to be excessive luggage. Front panniers, rear panniers,
handlebar bag and the latest bargain from B&Q in kitchen sinks!

I am assuming now that this is a non-camping tour but I have always
worked on the formula: one on, two off, i.e.: socks three, pants three,
vests three, cycling tops three, shorts three, etc. and with this I have
toured for 3 weeks. I also reason that it would be the same for three
months or more.

Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort every
night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away with?

If I'm not taking the tent, inflatable mattress and sleeping bag etc.,
then everything I need fits in one pannier, unless its both cold and
raining, in which case said pannier would be about half full. Apart from
the fleece, everything would fit in one washing machine load when I got
back, so weight wise I suppose it can't be more than 5 to 7 lbs (I'm not
including stuff like a lock, which I would take on every journey, and I
don't put my bathroom bag in the washing machine). I've never actually
done a non-camping tour, so I normally take 2 panniers and a barbag. I've
not toured for more than 2 weeks at a stretch, though.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jim Price said:

If I'm not taking the tent, inflatable mattress and sleeping bag etc.,
then everything I need fits in one pannier, unless its both cold and
raining, in which case said pannier would be about half full. Apart from
the fleece, everything would fit in one washing machine load when I got
back, so weight wise I suppose it can't be more than 5 to 7 lbs (I'm not
including stuff like a lock, which I would take on every journey, and I
don't put my bathroom bag in the washing machine). I've never actually
done a non-camping tour, so I normally take 2 panniers and a barbag.
I've not toured for more than 2 weeks at a stretch, though.

When we've toured as a family on the two tandems we've managed with one
pannier each (sleeping mat and bag, clothing, washbag and luxury items
(toys/books, radio etc) each plus a BOB trailer (four man tent, cooking
gear, food) for up to four weeks.
http://www.raven-family.com/Touring.htm

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

"citizen142" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I like to read the of the adventures and cycling tours of the people
on:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

especially on long winter evenings. The thing that strikes me most is
just how much they carry. They lovingly show photos of their 'steeds'
with what seems to be excessive luggage. Front panniers, rear
panniers, handlebar bag and the latest bargain from B&Q in kitchen
sinks!

I am assuming now that this is a non-camping tour but I have always
worked on the formula: one on, two off, i.e.: socks three, pants
three, vests three, cycling tops three, shorts three, etc. and with
this I have toured for 3 weeks. I also reason that it would be the
same for three months or more.

Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort
every night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away
with?

I did six weeks in India on two panniers, a bar bag and a camelbak with a
bit of extra space for valuables.

Some of the hotels were pretty rank so a ground sheet over the bed and my
own bedding on top took perhaps half a pannier. The medicine chest took a
large chunk of space as did the travel detergent and washing gear -- though
laundries in the better hotels proved good enough. By the end at least half
a pannier was filled with gifts.

A couple of litres of extra water were a necessity in some places -- bulky
and heavy but best not left behind in sparsely populated, near desert
conditions.

With more experience and greater ruthlessness I could have cut the stuff I
carried by 25 - 40% easy.

I did the whole tour with one cycling top (washed every night) -- but that
was [censored] up rather than planned.

Take only good quality polyester based clothes -- Rohan, Craghopper etc.
Cotton is [censored].

Shoes take up an inordinate amount of space -- as do maps, guide books and
chargers for phones, PDA's etc..

In contrast five days in Germany required four panniers -- but I did have a
business suit, shiny shoes, posh shirts, ties etc plus laptop, files for
meetings etc. with me :~(

+ camping gear :~)

Judicious use of left luggage lessened the burden most of the time.

T

T

Tony W said:

Shoes take up an inordinate amount of space -- as do maps, guide books and
chargers for phones, PDA's etc..

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.
Add black socks with long trousers as "smart wear", wear waterproof
socks if it gets cold or wet. One pair of sandals is all you need and
not wet soggy shoes to deal with at the end of a wet day.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Tony W said:

I did six weeks in India on two panniers, a bar bag and a camelbak with a
bit of extra space for valuables.

Many years ago we started to adopt a policy of unless it was essential,
leave it out and if we found we needed it we would buy one. Its amazing
how much you carry just in case. Following our policy we packed less
and less each trip as we gained confidence and found ourselves needing
to buy nothing. Our pinnacle was a fortnight in Thailand with one small
bag between us.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Tony Raven said:

Tony W said:

Shoes take up an inordinate amount of space -- as do maps, guide books
and chargers for phones, PDA's etc..

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.
Add black socks with long trousers as "smart wear", wear waterproof
socks if it gets cold or wet. One pair of sandals is all you need and
not wet soggy shoes to deal with at the end of a wet day.

.... and wearing socks under you sandals ensures you will be identified
as British ;-)

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.
Add black socks with long trousers as "smart wear"

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

Socks with sandals!!!!

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Cheers, helen s

citizen142 said:

I like to read the of the adventures and cycling tours of the people
on:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

especially on long winter evenings. The thing that strikes me most is
just how much they carry. They lovingly show photos of their 'steeds'
with what seems to be excessive luggage. Front panniers, rear
panniers, handlebar bag and the latest bargain from B&Q in kitchen
sinks!

I am assuming now that this is a non-camping tour but I have always
worked on the formula: one on, two off, i.e.: socks three, pants
three, vests three, cycling tops three, shorts three, etc. and with
this I have toured for 3 weeks. I also reason that it would be the
same for three months or more.

Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort
every night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away
with?

What about the touring equivalent to fixedgeargallery viz http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded

Doubt I could ride some of those down hill with a strong tailwond :-)

Bryan

Response to wafflycat:

Quoted message said:

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

Socks with sandals!!!!

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

A goatse.cx for our times - http://www.sandalandsoxer.co.uk

[Not bothered by it myself, I have to admit.]

--
Mark, UK
"There are some things only intellectuals are crazy enough to believe."

in message <[email hidden]>, citizen142

(') said:

I like to read the of the adventures and cycling tours of the people
on:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

especially on long winter evenings. The thing that strikes me most is
just how much they carry. They lovingly show photos of their 'steeds'
with what seems to be excessive luggage. Front panniers, rear
panniers, handlebar bag and the latest bargain from B&Q in kitchen
sinks!

I am assuming now that this is a non-camping tour but I have always
worked on the formula: one on, two off, i.e.: socks three, pants
three, vests three, cycling tops three, shorts three, etc. and with
this I have toured for 3 weeks. I also reason that it would be the
same for three months or more.

Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort
every night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away
with?

Credit card, 6 grammes.

If you can afford to stay in hotels, all your clothes including padded
cycling shorts will dry over a radiator over night, so there's no real
need to carry spare clothes. However, I'd like to have at least a pair
of lightweight trousers, e.g. Rohan bags (350 grammes), and a pair of
non-cycling underpants (say 50 grammes) to wear in the evenings, and a
pair of canvas shoes or sandals (say 400 grammes) to give my feet a rest
from cycling shoes. A light waterproof (say 500 grammes) can also make
the difference between reasonable comfort and total misery on cold wet
days.

My phone (160 grammes) includes a camera, diary, address book, email
client and web browser, and if switched on only when in use the battery
would easily last a fortnight.

Multi-tool, 78 grammes; tyre levers, three for 34 grammes; spare tube, 80
grammes; pump, 166 grammes; hand cleaning wipes, say 5 grammes.

So - not including the clothing you'd be wearing when you set off in the
morning, water bottles and water, and cereal bars for the day, I make
that under 1800 grammes of luggage. And I think (given hotels or B&B for
the nights) that would be enough to be perfectly comfortable for at
least a week in summer.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven (junk@raven-

family.com) said:

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.

<URL:http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/04benthon/arcimg/pb050.jpg>

Are you /sure/ about this, Tony?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Nicht in die laufende Trommel greifen.

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven (junk@raven-

family.com) said:

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.

<URL:http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/04benthon/arcimg/pb050.jpg>

Are you /sure/ about this, Tony?

If he is, I suggest this may be of use

<http://www.shoppingcomparison.co.uk/IMGE/_kstq_zroddcdq_zmds/bbhlfzb_s_knfbhsxzbnl/200000/204700/204700/Pqnctbsr/12190001.jpg>

Cheers, helen s

Mark McNeill said:

Quoted message said:

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

A goatse.cx for our times - http://www.sandalandsoxer.co.uk

That's very useful .. I've never understood why some people
have a problem with socks, but there is indeed some Poor Taste
on show there.

The real problem appears not to be sandals with socks, but
sandals, shorts and tee-shirts with socks. Sandals worn with
long trousers and tastefully-coloured socks are inoffensive.
Sandals worn with bright shirts, trunks, and long white socks
are repulsive.

But it's not the foot-in-sock that's the problem - it's the
ankle. So shorts, trainers and socks ought to be equally bad.
Why don't the fashion police go for them ? Could it be that
they're scared of offending trainer-wearers but consider
sandal-wearers an easy target ?

-adrian

Adrian Godwin said:

The real problem appears not to be sandals with socks

Wrong.

Quoted message said:

sandals, shorts and tee-shirts with socks. Sandals worn with
long trousers and tastefully-coloured socks are inoffensive.

Wrong.

Quoted message said:

Sandals worn with bright shirts, trunks, and long white socks
are repulsive.

Right.

--
Chief Inspector, Kent Constabulary (Fashion Division)

"citizen142" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gDhYf.5920

Quoted message said:

<snip><snip>
Assuming staying in reasonable hotels or accommodation of some sort
every night what is the minimum weight you think you could get away
with?

When I did my first long distance cycle/camping tour to Santiago de
Compostela in March/April 2004, despite all my efforts I knew that I was
overloaded BUT my basic camping gear was necessary to be able to withstand
winter type weather. I was determined that at the end of a days travelling
that I would be dry and warm. my sleeping bag took up most of one pannier.
my clothes ( 1 on, one washed and drying, one clean) + medications + wet
weather gear filled the other rear pannier. Single pot cooking and mini
stove + 1 days emergency rations in the right front pannier and my
selfinflating mat in the left front pannier. Tent on the rear rack.
Nevertheless I used my journey down through England to Portsmouth to start
the principle of throwing away something every day. By the time I was half
way down through France I was down to a minimum trim -- I had also lost the
largest amount of the velos all up weight from "me"
Last years trip down the Danube was a 49 day in a tent trip. To be honest I
needed a few more creature comforts and at times I would have cheerfully
murdered for an above ground level seat.

This years trip on the Rhein and Mosel starting in mid May, sees me having
dumped the panniers all together and I have substituted a BOB Yak trailer --
another weight penalty but I tried one last year while cycling on the Danube
( I swapped loads for a day with a German guy). I must admit that towing the
trailer which carried a heavier load than my panniers make my velo a
different beast in terms of handling ( I can tell you that those front
panniers in a head wind take their toll).

So going uphill is still hard work ( harder?) but I don't blush when I have
to dismount and push!

I have also doubled the weight of my tent from 2 kg to 4 kg. My Vango
Microlight 200 is still in good shape and saw me through some rough weather
but at 69 in June ( hopefully in Trier on the Mosel) I shall enjoy the
addition of a porch to my tent. The tent is cheaper ( sale price £35 reduced
from £55) by a long way than my Vango and will probably last me only 2
season if I am lucky but it will give me huge increase in space and headroom
and on those very wet, thundery, windy cold days I hope to have an
appreciable comfort upgrade,
Everything else in the load will be reduced yet again. 2 of everything is
enough.Maps and guides will be posted back to UK as and when. Cooking gear
is already at a minimum -- but I know it will always be a load.
Hopefully this year, with the BOB Yak trailer I will have a new learning
experience.

By the way I tour for the pleasure of seeing and meeting new people and
places -- not to make kilometres a day. The furthest I have travelled in a
day was about 160 kms during my journey through the flat lands of France,
South of the Gironde ( the next day I did 30 kms!)

On my trip down and up the Danube last year I met an Oz biker who had cycled
from Shanghai and he was fixated on doing "mileage" and, despite having
biked halfway round the world, he had not taken time to "experience" it at
all!
Long post -- sorry!
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Bob C said:

What capacity panniers?

35 litres, IIRC.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

wafflycat said:

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

Socks with sandals!!!!

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

If that seeming icon of fashion, Mr Beckham, can be paid what he gets
paid by the fashion industry and wear them then I have no problem with
sandals and socks although I realise it may take another century or two
to penetrate the depths of Norfolk ;-)

Anyway its at the very very mild end of the offensive scale compared
with the baggy lycra fest that many cycling shows & CTC runs feature.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven (junk@raven-

family.com) said:

Black SPD sandals are the answer. Wear with bear feet most of the time.

<URL:http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/04benthon/arcimg/pb050.jpg>

Are you /sure/ about this, Tony?

Damn the speelchucker!!

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham