Best options for Rohloff setup

I can't help with your questions, but I'm interested in the answers
myself - the Rohloff looks very interesting...

I'll add another question to the list - how difficult would it be to
combine a Rohloff with rear suspension? I'd think that's a pretty
large ask, but I did see a bike in a shop that at least made an
attempt, tho I don't know if it was actually a Rohloff in there. I
didn't have time to look really closely, but my impression was that it
was a freeride type bike. It had two chains, and the shifting hub bit
was in a second BB attached halfway up the seatpost. A short chain
went from the real BB to the shifting hub, and the second chain came
out the other end of the hub and followed the suspension swing arm to
the rear wheel, where a single cog was mounted. I think it had a twist
grip shifting controller.

I'd be curious to learn if this is a system that works well. It
certainly was expensive - $5000 in a Performance Bike shop. I don't
recall the brand of the bike, alas.

NickD said:

- Rohloff sliding dropouts. Downers: cost. Upside: most elegant
solution.

My advice: do it.
Years from now, you'll be glad you did it the elegant way.

Tom Ace

Check out St Johns street cycles (Thorn) as they have R specific MTB frames

SW in the UK

"NickD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Hi all,
I'm looking at buying a Ti hardtail MTB frame, and am seriously
considering a Rohloff hub. Both the frames I've looked at offer the
option of Rohloff sliding dropouts, for about £150 extra. What are
your thoughts on options for chain tension? I currently reckon I have
3:

- standard frame, with derailleur hanger plus chain tensioner. Downers:
have a chain tensioner! Sound like a bit of a pain. Upside: cheaper,
plus can switch to derailleurs in the future if I really want to. Not
sure why I would want to, but you never know....
- Eccentric bottom bracket frame. Downers: eats into saddle adjustment.
Heavy? Costs extra for the EBB frame. Upside: no chain tensioner.
- Rohloff sliding dropouts. Downers: cost. Upside: most elegant
solution.

Answers? At the back of my mind I also have this thought that I'm
likely to have this frame for donkey's years, and may (for whatever
reason) want to switch back to derailleurs at some point....

Anyway, input appreciated!
Thanks
Nick

what 3 gears of the 149 available rohloff gears do you plan to use?

Per NickD:

Quoted message said:

standard frame, with derailleur hanger plus chain tensioner. Downers:
have a chain tensioner! Sound like a bit of a pain. Upside: cheaper,
plus can switch to derailleurs in the future if I really want to. Not
sure why I would want to, but you never know....
- Eccentric bottom bracket frame. Downers: eats into saddle adjustment.
Heavy? Costs extra for the EBB frame. Upside: no chain tensioner.
- Rohloff sliding dropouts. Downers: cost. Upside: most elegant
solution.

Answers? At the back of my mind I also have this thought that I'm
likely to have this frame for donkey's years, and may (for whatever
reason) want to switch back to derailleurs at some point....

I think not having a chain tensioner is primarily an aesthetic thing.
Not 100%, but mostly.

I've had a tensioner on my FS's for about six years now with no problems other
than the occasional derailed chain - probably attributable more to insufficient
tension than the use of a tensioner per-se.

OTOH, I've got the Rohloff drops on my hard tail and had the eccentric BB on
another hardtail that didn't work out.

Elegant as the eccentric BB is, I share the concern about it eating into saddle
adjustment. There's so little saddle adjustment already....

The Rohloff drops have been good to me on the hard tail. For some reason a
couple of builders I talked to seemed reluctant to do them - inexperience,
maybe. But I've had zero problems. You set the wheel in there, tighten the
chain to taste, screw down four Allen-key bolts, and that's it.

Only two caveats I can think of are:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) My drops are alu, so you don't want Magilla The Gorilla tightening down
those bolts. Doesn't take a lot to keep everything stable....

2) When you set the chain tension, you need to rotate the cranks while doing it.
Reason: chain rings are seldom, if ever, perfectly centered.
You need a chain tension that's a balance between the loosest and tightest
cycle of the chain ring.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, if I had it to do all over again, I'd tell the builder to forget about
brazing any cable stops on to the rear triangle. The Rohloff shift system
doesn't need any precision in the cables. It seems silly to expose bare
cable to mud and crud and my experience has been that electrical tape works
just as well for stabilizing the cables and is a lot friendlier to bare skin.
--
PeteCresswell

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

how difficult would it be to
combine a Rohloff with rear suspension? I'd think that's a pretty
large ask

It's trivial.
--
PeteCresswell

NickD said:

Hi all,
I'm looking at buying a Ti hardtail MTB frame, and am seriously
considering a Rohloff hub. Both the frames I've looked at offer the
option of Rohloff sliding dropouts, for about £150 extra. What are
your thoughts on options for chain tension? I currently reckon I have
3:

- standard frame, with derailleur hanger plus chain tensioner. Downers:
have a chain tensioner! Sound like a bit of a pain. Upside: cheaper,
plus can switch to derailleurs in the future if I really want to. Not
sure why I would want to, but you never know....
- Eccentric bottom bracket frame. Downers: eats into saddle adjustment.
Heavy? Costs extra for the EBB frame. Upside: no chain tensioner.
- Rohloff sliding dropouts. Downers: cost. Upside: most elegant
solution.

Answers? At the back of my mind I also have this thought that I'm
likely to have this frame for donkey's years, and may (for whatever
reason) want to switch back to derailleurs at some point....

I bought the Surly Karate monkey frame which has horizontal dropouts
*and* an hanger so you can go back to derailurs if you want. Imho the
chain tensioner is a nono, the whole point of hub gears is to get away
from such stuff. The concentric bottom bracket was attractive but (I
think) only Cannondale make a frame off the shelf with one, the 1FG.

I had hell trying to convince Rohloff to supply a QR axle for this setup
and went down the non QR route. Why this should be so I don't know.

I used disc brakes and the Speed bone torque converter which is an
elegant solution but I now have *three* 'pipes' running to the back
wheel. Cable ties are your friend.

What frames were you looking at?

Thanks Pete - appreciate the input. If I'm reading this correctly, you
seem to be saying EBB's aren't really worth the hassle (altho' I have
seen your posts elsewhere about saddle adjustment - is that just a
personal bugbear?), and chain tensioners are just a personal preference
thing.

One point is that I don't want to tie myself to a Rohloff hub
permanently in case it doesn't work out. And given that this is a Ti
frame (quite possibly custom), I'm likely to hang onto it for a very
long time.

The Rohloff dropouts do look tasty though - I've been checking out
those on the Pipedream Nevis.

Cheers
Nick

Setavento or Pipedream. UK-based 'cheap' (well, compared to the
bigger-name US brands) Ti frames. The former is a complete custom
frame, too.

One cheap workaround is to use an OEM2 axle plate to attach the hub to
disc mounts, and just run a chain tensioner. Lets me use a completely
standard frame (in terms of dropouts, BB shells and so on), which saves
a few bob.

Nick

Quoted message said:

I did see a bike in a shop that at least made an attempt, tho
I don't know if it was actually a Rohloff in there. I didn't have
time to look really closely, but my impression was that it was
a freeride type bike. It had two chains, and the shifting hub bit
was in a second BB attached halfway up the seatpost. A short
chain went from the real BB to the shifting hub, and the second
chain came out the other end of the hub and followed the
suspension swing arm to the rear wheel, where a single cog was
mounted. I think it had a twist grip shifting controller.

Quoted message said:

I'd be curious to learn if this is a system that works well. It
certainly was expensive - $5000 in a Performance Bike shop.
I don't recall the brand of the bike, alas.

Perhaps a Nicolai?

http://www.nicolai.net/

http://www.ultrasport.cz/nicolai/nicolai%20index.htm

James Thomson

Per NickD:

Quoted message said:

Thanks Pete - appreciate the input. If I'm reading this correctly, you
seem to be saying EBB's aren't really worth the hassle (altho' I have
seen your posts elsewhere about saddle adjustment - is that just a
personal bugbear?), and chain tensioners are just a personal preference
thing.

Saying EBBs aren't worth the hassle is a little stronger than what I'd say.
They *are* elegant.... but I prefer the Rohloff dropouts.

As you've probably noted, I am kind of obsessed with saddle adjustment.
Between my broad butt, long legs, big feet, and un-supple body I have more than
the usual fit concerns.
--
PeteCresswell

Per Tosspot:

Quoted message said:

I bought the Surly Karate monkey frame which has horizontal dropouts
*and* an hanger so you can go back to derailurs if you want.

That will work as long as you don't use disc brakes.
--
PeteCresswell

Interesting. Do rim brakes still sit on the wheel fine with the
horizontal adjustment? Also wondering about the disc mounts - great for
attaching the Rohloff to to stop it unwinding, but if I move the wheel
too much for the chain tension, it may not work...

Nick

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per Tosspot:

Quoted message said:

I bought the Surly Karate monkey frame which has horizontal dropouts
*and* an hanger so you can go back to derailurs if you want.

That will work as long as you don't use disc brakes.

Errmmm, I did, Hope Mono Minis, no problems with the Speed Bone.

Per Tosspot:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That will work as long as you don't use disc brakes.

Errmmm, I did, Hope Mono Minis, no problems with the Speed Bone.

But don't the disc calipers stay in one place while the wheel moves
back-and-forth as chain tension is adjusted?
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per Tosspot:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That will work as long as you don't use disc brakes.

Errmmm, I did, Hope Mono Minis, no problems with the Speed Bone.

But don't the disc calipers stay in one place while the wheel moves
back-and-forth as chain tension is adjusted?

Yes, and there is just enough clearance/travel to make this work ok.
The Karate monkey frame has slotted mounts for the brakes, allowing them
to move back and forth a bit. See
http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html

Its a sweet idea I think.

The chain tension with a Rohloff isn't that critical. Anywhere
between not too tight to bind and not too lose to fall off is fine. I
have a Thorn Rohloff with an EBB, I also have a half link for the
chain. I haven't touched the EBB, I've found subtracting ½" at
a time enough to keep the required tension. Easier and quicker than
either adjusting the saddle (with an EBB) or the brakes (with sliding
drop outs)
I've run other hub gears through chain tensioners. As long as the
chain was well lubed and the tensioner not clogged with dirt, the loss
of efficiency was too small for me to notice. It's just not as neat.

Per Tosspot:

Quoted message said:

Yes, and there is just enough clearance/travel to make this work ok.
The Karate monkey frame has slotted mounts for the brakes, allowing them
to move back and forth a bit. See
http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html

Its a sweet idea I think.

I'd agree. As long as the wheel won't twist under hard pedaling, the only
advantage the Rohloff dropouts would seem to have would be lack of need to
re-adjust chain tension/wheel alignment after fixing a flat... and I'd call that
advantage almost trivial.
--
PeteCresswell

NickD said:

One point is that I don't want to tie myself to a Rohloff hub
permanently in case it doesn't work out. And given that this is a Ti
frame (quite possibly custom), I'm likely to hang onto it for a very
long time.

The Rohloff dropouts do look tasty though - I've been checking out
those on the Pipedream Nevis.

That's a mighty strange thing. if you properly set things up and have
your frame and everything done right then i doubt you will find the
Speedhub not to your liking. I have been riding one for almost a year
and a half now. the only complaint i have is that i have to work and
can't go ride it everyday.

I went the EBB route. Got the OEM axle plate and had surly
trackdropouts turned vertically. they are just long enough to fit the
little piece on the plate that provides the back torque so that you
would think that surly made them for this purpose and not for chain
tension. It may be worth noting that i am using the Bushnell EBB and i
think that it is the best type (i'm not into having a cut frame with
pinchbolts or setscrews digging into things). One really nice thing
about the eccentrics is that you have two spots where you can get
tension (a high and a low), this is a nice adjustment depending on what
type of riding you may be doing, you may want a higher ground clearance
or a lower overall center of gravity. also, the eccentrics are not that
much heavier than sliding dropouts.
"We weighed a complete setup for both EBB (eccentric, shell, disc
mount, breezer dropouts, disc crossbrace) and the Paragon sliders
(dropouts, hardware, normal BB shell) and found that the difference was
pretty minimal - 411 grams for the Paragon setup, 440 grams for the
EBB. I kept hearing reports about how much lighter than an EBB this
would end up being, but it looks like that's not really the case here.
30 grams, or about 1 ounce." -Walt of Waltworks
I know those are the Paragon ones, and have no comparisons between them
and the Rohloff ones, but i can't imagine the Rohloff ones would be
lighter considering the longer nondriveside dropout. just something to
think about.

if you want the option for external transmissions, you could have a
normal vertical dropout with hanger put on the drive side and the
vertical "track end" on the other. But i seriously doubt that you will
want to go back.

sorry for the long post. good luck and i hope you find a bike that you
will love as much as i have loved mine.