erythrocytosis and asthma / lung problems

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Colin Campbell <[email hidden] (remove underscore)> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it mere coincidence that theophylline .. considered to be very

useful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the treatment of asthma / lung problems .. has the ability to lower

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

red

Quoted message said:

blood cell count in the body?

This is known as a 'side effect.'

Are you aware how how theo works?

It works by binding up iron and reducing the production of red blood

cells.

Quoted message said:

Free iron triggers the body to produce red blood cells and the

theophylline

Quoted message said:

binds it up and it now cannot trigger the cascade . Erythropoeitin production goes down .. the
percurser to a red blood cell .. and red blood cell production goes down.

Blood is 'thinned' .. runs easier .. and as in the case of lowering hemoglobin in those with COPD
.. there is an increase in peak meter flow

and

Quoted message said:

a fifty percent rise in exercise performance.

Wrong. Try again.

Quoted message said:

Arch Intern Med 1997 Jul 14;157(13):1474-8

Effect of theophylline on erythrocytosis in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Oren R, Beeri M, Hubert A, Kramer MR, Matzner Y Department of Internal Medicine, Hadassah
University Hospital, Mount

Scopas,

Quoted message said:

Israel.

BACKGROUND: Patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)

tend

Quoted message said:

to develop secondary erythrocytosis to compensate for their chronic

hypoxia.

Quoted message said:

Theophylline has recently been shown to reduce hematocrit and

erythropoietin

Quoted message said:

blood levels in normal subjects and in patients with erythrocytosis after renal transplantation.
OBJECTIVE: To determine whether theophylline may be used to lower the hematocrit in patients with
COPD. METHODS: Two hundred four patients with COPD were studied retrospectively and 10 patients
prospectively (8 starting treatment with the drug [group 1] and 2 who suspended its long-term use
[group 2]) for the correlation between theophylline therapy and hematocrit and erythropoietin
level. RESULTS: In the patients studied retrospectively, lower hematocrits were found in the
theophylline-treated than in the untreated patients (0.43 +/- 0.006 vs

.46

Quoted message said:

+/- 0.007, respectively; P < .002). Twelve untreated patients and 2 of

those

Quoted message said:

treated with theophylline had hematocrits above 52%. Oxygen saturation levels were similar in both
groups, and exclusion of patients with oxygen saturation lower than 88% did not change the
pattern, suggesting that the effect of theophylline could not be entirely explained by improved
oxygen availability. Seven of the 8 patients studied prospectively in group 1 (P

<

Quoted message said:

.02) and the 2 patients in group 2 showed inverse correlations between hematocrits and
theophylline administration. A similar pattern was

observed

Quoted message said:

with serum erythropoietin levels in 5 of 7 patients studied. The effects were reproducible on
rechallenge in 3 of the 4 patients in group 1 and the

2

Quoted message said:

patients in group 2. CONCLUSIONS: Theophylline may have a beneficial

effect

Quoted message said:

in treatment and prevention of erythrocytosis in patients with COPD.

PMID: 9224226, UI: 97367523

Who loves ya. Tom

--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Colin Campbell <[email hidden] (remove underscore)> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it mere coincidence that theophylline .. considered to be very

useful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the treatment of asthma / lung problems .. has the ability to lower

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

red

Quoted message said:

blood cell count in the body?

This is known as a 'side effect.'

Are you aware how how theo works?

It works by binding up iron and reducing the production of red blood

cells.

Quoted message said:

Free iron triggers the body to produce red blood cells and the

theophylline

Quoted message said:

binds it up and it now cannot trigger the cascade . Erythropoeitin production goes down .. the
percurser to a red blood cell .. and red blood cell production goes down.

Blood is 'thinned' .. runs easier .. and as in the case of lowering hemoglobin in those with COPD
.. there is an increase in peak meter flow

and

Quoted message said:

a fifty percent rise in exercise performance.

Wrong. Try again.

Quoted message said:

Arch Intern Med 1997 Jul 14;157(13):1474-8

Effect of theophylline on erythrocytosis in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Oren R, Beeri M, Hubert A, Kramer MR, Matzner Y Department of Internal Medicine, Hadassah
University Hospital, Mount

Scopas,

Quoted message said:

Israel.

BACKGROUND: Patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)

tend

Quoted message said:

to develop secondary erythrocytosis to compensate for their chronic

hypoxia.

Quoted message said:

Theophylline has recently been shown to reduce hematocrit and

erythropoietin

Quoted message said:

blood levels in normal subjects and in patients with erythrocytosis after renal transplantation.
OBJECTIVE: To determine whether theophylline may be used to lower the hematocrit in patients with
COPD. METHODS: Two hundred four patients with COPD were studied retrospectively and 10 patients
prospectively (8 starting treatment with the drug [group 1] and 2 who suspended its long-term use
[group 2]) for the correlation between theophylline therapy and hematocrit and erythropoietin
level. RESULTS: In the patients studied retrospectively, lower hematocrits were found in the
theophylline-treated than in the untreated patients (0.43 +/- 0.006 vs

.46

Quoted message said:

+/- 0.007, respectively; P < .002). Twelve untreated patients and 2 of

those

Quoted message said:

treated with theophylline had hematocrits above 52%. Oxygen saturation levels were similar in both
groups, and exclusion of patients with oxygen saturation lower than 88% did not change the
pattern, suggesting that the effect of theophylline could not be entirely explained by improved
oxygen availability. Seven of the 8 patients studied prospectively in group 1 (P

<

Quoted message said:

.02) and the 2 patients in group 2 showed inverse correlations between hematocrits and
theophylline administration. A similar pattern was

observed

Quoted message said:

with serum erythropoietin levels in 5 of 7 patients studied. The effects were reproducible on
rechallenge in 3 of the 4 patients in group 1 and the

2

Quoted message said:

patients in group 2. CONCLUSIONS: Theophylline may have a beneficial

effect

Quoted message said:

in treatment and prevention of erythrocytosis in patients with COPD.

PMID: 9224226, UI: 97367523

Who loves ya. Tom

--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Colin Campbell <[email hidden] (remove underscore)> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it mere coincidence that theophylline .. considered to be very

useful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the treatment of asthma / lung problems .. has the ability to lower

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

red

Quoted message said:

blood cell count in the body?

This is known as a 'side effect.'

Are you aware how how theo works?

It works by binding up iron and reducing the production of red blood

cells.

Quoted message said:

Free iron triggers the body to produce red blood cells and the

theophylline

Quoted message said:

binds it up and it now cannot trigger the cascade . Erythropoeitin production goes down .. the
percurser to a red blood cell .. and red blood cell production goes down.

Blood is 'thinned' .. runs easier .. and as in the case of lowering hemoglobin in those with COPD
.. there is an increase in peak meter flow

and

Quoted message said:

a fifty percent rise in exercise performance.

Wrong. Try again.

Quoted message said:

Arch Intern Med 1997 Jul 14;157(13):1474-8

Effect of theophylline on erythrocytosis in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Oren R, Beeri M, Hubert A, Kramer MR, Matzner Y Department of Internal Medicine, Hadassah
University Hospital, Mount

Scopas,

Quoted message said:

Israel.

BACKGROUND: Patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)

tend

Quoted message said:

to develop secondary erythrocytosis to compensate for their chronic

hypoxia.

Quoted message said:

Theophylline has recently been shown to reduce hematocrit and

erythropoietin

Quoted message said:

blood levels in normal subjects and in patients with erythrocytosis after renal transplantation.
OBJECTIVE: To determine whether theophylline may be used to lower the hematocrit in patients with
COPD. METHODS: Two hundred four patients with COPD were studied retrospectively and 10 patients
prospectively (8 starting treatment with the drug [group 1] and 2 who suspended its long-term use
[group 2]) for the correlation between theophylline therapy and hematocrit and erythropoietin
level. RESULTS: In the patients studied retrospectively, lower hematocrits were found in the
theophylline-treated than in the untreated patients (0.43 +/- 0.006 vs

.46

Quoted message said:

+/- 0.007, respectively; P < .002). Twelve untreated patients and 2 of

those

Quoted message said:

treated with theophylline had hematocrits above 52%. Oxygen saturation levels were similar in both
groups, and exclusion of patients with oxygen saturation lower than 88% did not change the
pattern, suggesting that the effect of theophylline could not be entirely explained by improved
oxygen availability. Seven of the 8 patients studied prospectively in group 1 (P

<

Quoted message said:

.02) and the 2 patients in group 2 showed inverse correlations between hematocrits and
theophylline administration. A similar pattern was

observed

Quoted message said:

with serum erythropoietin levels in 5 of 7 patients studied. The effects were reproducible on
rechallenge in 3 of the 4 patients in group 1 and the

2

Quoted message said:

patients in group 2. CONCLUSIONS: Theophylline may have a beneficial

effect

Quoted message said:

in treatment and prevention of erythrocytosis in patients with COPD.

PMID: 9224226, UI: 97367523

Who loves ya. Tom

--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

sdores <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom John Riggs is my friend so please apologize. UM MOM

No I don't think I will..

John has an agenda ..

Has NEVER placed a medical article to refute ANYTHING I say ..

Simply attacks .. PERSONAL attacks ..

On the street .. his ass would be grass ..

Simple as that ..

Who loves ya. Tom
--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

Tom you are getting out of control already. You are flaming on the crohns-colitis group and now
here. Enough is enough. Please stop crossposting so all the groups don't have the flame wars. Thank
you. UM MOM Susan

"ironjustice" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

sdores <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom John Riggs is my friend so please apologize. UM MOM

No I don't think I will..

John has an agenda ..

Has NEVER placed a medical article to refute ANYTHING I say ..

Simply attacks .. PERSONAL attacks ..

On the street .. his ass would be grass ..

Simple as that ..

Who loves ya. Tom
--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

CBI <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He doesn't understand that or the fact that very few asthmatics have such low )2's that they end
up with elevated RBC counts to the point of causing increase viscosity. All he has is an obsession
with iron. He has been all over Usenet with his [censored] and unfortunately, has finally wound his way

over

Quoted message said:

to here. The good news is that is history holds he will soon get tired of

it

Quoted message said:

and move on.

I know that he is a mission poster. I make these comments occasionally so the newbies will get an
alert that this guy may not be the world's best source of medical advice.

Tom I just noted your crossposting, meds I suspect. I hate crossposting. If I want to post to all
the other group then I would, it should be my choice. UM MOM Susan "Colin Campbell"
<[email hidden] (remove underscore)> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Colin Campbell <[email hidden] (remove underscore)> wrote

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ironjustice <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Is it mere coincidence that theophylline .. considered to be very

useful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in
> the treatment of asthma / lung problems .. has the ability to lower

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

red
> blood cell count in the body?

This is known as a 'side effect.'

Are you aware how how theo works?

It works by binding up iron and reducing the production of red blood

cells.

Quoted message said:

Free iron triggers the body to produce red blood cells and the

theophylline

Quoted message said:

binds it up and it now cannot trigger the cascade . Erythropoeitin production goes down .. the
percurser to a red blood cell .. and red

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cell production goes down.

Blood is 'thinned' .. runs easier .. and as in the case of lowering hemoglobin in those with
COPD .. there is an increase in peak meter flow

and

Quoted message said:

a fifty percent rise in exercise performance.

Wrong. Try again.

Quoted message said:

Arch Intern Med 1997 Jul 14;157(13):1474-8

Effect of theophylline on erythrocytosis in chronic obstructive

pulmonary

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

disease.

Oren R, Beeri M, Hubert A, Kramer MR, Matzner Y Department of Internal Medicine, Hadassah
University Hospital, Mount

Scopas,

Quoted message said:

Israel.

BACKGROUND: Patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)

tend

Quoted message said:

to develop secondary erythrocytosis to compensate for their chronic

hypoxia.

Quoted message said:

Theophylline has recently been shown to reduce hematocrit and

erythropoietin

Quoted message said:

blood levels in normal subjects and in patients with erythrocytosis

after

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

renal transplantation. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether theophylline may

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used to lower the hematocrit in patients with COPD. METHODS: Two hundred four patients with COPD
were studied retrospectively and 10 patients prospectively (8 starting treatment with the drug
[group 1] and 2 who suspended its long-term use [group 2]) for the correlation between
theophylline therapy and hematocrit and erythropoietin level. RESULTS:

In

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the patients studied retrospectively, lower hematocrits were found in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

theophylline-treated than in the untreated patients (0.43 +/- 0.006 vs

.46

Quoted message said:

+/- 0.007, respectively; P < .002). Twelve untreated patients and 2 of

those

Quoted message said:

treated with theophylline had hematocrits above 52%. Oxygen saturation levels were similar in
both groups, and exclusion of patients with

oxygen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

saturation lower than 88% did not change the pattern, suggesting that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effect of theophylline could not be entirely explained by improved

oxygen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

availability. Seven of the 8 patients studied prospectively in group 1

(P

Quoted message said:

<

Quoted message said:

.02) and the 2 patients in group 2 showed inverse correlations between hematocrits and
theophylline administration. A similar pattern was

observed

Quoted message said:

with serum erythropoietin levels in 5 of 7 patients studied. The effects were reproducible on
rechallenge in 3 of the 4 patients in group 1 and

the

Quoted message said:

2

Quoted message said:

patients in group 2. CONCLUSIONS: Theophylline may have a beneficial

effect

Quoted message said:

in treatment and prevention of erythrocytosis in patients with COPD.

PMID: 9224226, UI: 97367523

Who loves ya. Tom

--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!

pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I said in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You've been complaining that everyone just personally attacks you and

does

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not discuss the science. I posted a critique of the first article you posted. I think you need
to comment on what I said before moving on to

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

number 2 - or are you conceding the points on the first try?

Then you replied in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Conceding what? You disagree with my contention. You expect me to attempt to argue with you over
.. ? The fact you believe the introduction of iron to a system does not stimulate the production
of red blood cells ?

I thought maybe I would let that one pass to save you some face ..

Quoted message said:

Careful what you wish for.

I'll discuss the second article if and when you come up with a coherent reply to my comments on
the first. Time to put up or shut up

What remark .. ?

Comments ?

Then you went on to rave nonsensically first that iron excess stimulated red blood cell production
(not just allows it if not deficient).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All of this is utter tripe. If free iron stimulates red blood cell production then why don't
people with hemochromatosis (iron overload)

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eelvated RBC counts? Low oxygen tension in the renal medulla causes the release of erythropoeitin
and erythrocytosis. Iron is needed to produce

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

red cells but does not stimulate them itself.

What ? Iron overloaded / hemochromatosis patients DON"T have elevated Hb

..

Quoted message said:

?

Is that what you are saying .. ?

Well since the record seems to be BEING BLOODLET THREE TIMES AWEEK FOR MONTHS ON END .. I might
suppose your comment as to them NOT having elevated RBC .. might be .. wrong ..

Then you went on to agree that I was right.

Quoted message said:

But then again .. hemochromatosis patients PRESENT in many cases with ANEMIA.

So .. hell .. you can use that as an argument ..

Hemochromatosis patients are .. ANEMIC!

Hemolysis / hemolytic anemia .. too many red blood cells causes increased destruction of red blood
cells .. increased destruction of red blood cells creates .. oxidation / rust .. which destroys
antioxidants .. tocopherol

..

Quoted message said:

the #1 target and once there is no tocopherol .. your body cannot create a VIABLE red blood cell
.. and so you now have anemia which is UNCORRECTABLE .. due to lack of tocopherol.

Then you went on to introduce yet another study without ever addressing the bulk of the discussion
on the first one in any way and none of it in any meaningful or coherent way.

Quoted message said:

Below .. antioxidants seem to actually REVERSE the 'problems' found in

those

Quoted message said:

with sickle cell / a hemolytic anemia .. in case you don't remember.

1: Br J Haematol 2001 May;113(2):500-7 Related Articles, Links

< Snipped for the sake of brevity>

My comment on all this:

I didn't think so.

--
CBI, MD

CBI <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't think so.

Didn't think you would ..

Found out by now it hurts .. the .. head .. eh ..

In case you missed it .. you said hemochromatosis patients DON'T present with elevated levels of
RBC's .. and they .. do ..

But since YOU seem to be of the belief .. PROVEN in your own Standards of Care .. that a hemoglobin
of 14.5 in a woman is NO BIG DEAL .. you probably DON'T think a hemoglobin of 14.5 is any big deal.

MY .. evidenced based medicine .. IS .. dead children in wombs ..

Children tend to die in the womb of women whose hemoglobins are 14.5 .. the point YOU don't even
bother to look ..

And YOU expect ME .. to somehow .. attempt to convince YOU .. that you are wrong .. ?

When ALL you do is quote .. verbatim .. [censored] from your textbook .. and NOT .. evidenced based recent
medical studies .. ?

Giving someone iron .. EVEN WHEN they have normal red blood cell mass .. WILL increase their red
blood cell mass.

PERIOD ..

Maybe ONLY .. 'within the window' .. of which you and your cohorts have established BUT still with
in the window that kills .. children ..

So ..

You haven't even begun to say .. oops .. yet ..

And while I wrote this message I suppose one could say ANOTHER baby JUST died DUE TO the medical
profession NOT BOTHERING TO FOLLOW EVIDENCED BASED MEDICINE ..

The argument I consistently ran into .. " we don't ROUTINELY prescribe iron to pregnant women .. "

And now in Medline they are saying .. " we'd better reconsider routinely prescribing iron .. "

Make .. up .. your .. minds ..

Either you do .. or you don't ..

Medline says you do ..

Who loves ya. Tom
--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

Moosh🙂 <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry... Tom.... I ... thought.... UseNet ..... was ..... all ..... about .......making .........
commments.........

B ..... T .... W .... that ..... was ...... a ..... question ....... which ..... you ..... didn't
..... answer......

The answer BEING .. 'they' .. THINK .. a hemoglobin of 16.5 is the point at which they should begin
to look closely at WHY the hemoglobin is so high. This very high mark of 'normal' is governed by ..
money. It is cheaper NOT to test everyone for problems UNTIL the hemoglobin is this high.

Babies begin to die in the womb when the hemoglobin of the mother is 14.5 .. and on average they
begin to supplement iron when the woman is below 12 .. I believe .. and thusly .. anything within
the window of 12 - 16.5 is NOT called a hemoglobin raise in a woman.

So the hemoglobin is raised 'normally' .. even though NOW .. the child is dead .. BUT .. since the
hemoglobin IS within this .. window .. the iron salts / infusions did NOT raise the hemoglobin in
someone with 'normal' hemoglobin.

That is how they get to SAY .. " normal people who are supplemented with iron will not achieve an
abnormal .. hemoglobin" .. even though the child is .. dead .

If you see what I mean.

Or one could point to the poisoned child who has accidentally overdosed on iron .. who NOW has
erythrocytosis .. BUT that erythrocytosis is NOT due to the iron .. it is due to 'something else'
which is idiopathic.

So .. generally using the markers which the medical profession uses .. this very large window ..
hemoglobin isn't RAISED beyond .. normal .. BUT .. when the hemoglobin MARKER is lowered ...

Who loves ya. Tom
--
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.comOpen ↗ Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivoreOpen ↗

ironjustice said:

Moosh🙂 <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry... Tom.... I ... thought.... UseNet ..... was ..... all ..... about .......making .........
commments.........

B ..... T .... W .... that ..... was ...... a ..... question ....... which ..... you ..... didn't
..... answer......

The answer BEING .. 'they' .. THINK .. a hemoglobin of 16.5 is the point at which they should begin
to look closely at WHY the hemoglobin is so high. This very high mark of 'normal' is governed by ..
money. It is cheaper NOT to test everyone for problems UNTIL the hemoglobin is this high.

And? What's new? ALL medical intervention is goverened by economics.

Quoted message said:

Babies begin to die in the womb when the hemoglobin of the mother is 14.5 ..

How many in 10,000? What are the causes

Quoted message said:

and on average they begin to supplement iron when the woman is below 12 ..

And?

Quoted message said:

I believe .. and thusly .. anything within the window of 12 - 16.5 is NOT called a hemoglobin raise
in a woman.

Well does it cause a significant problem in the vast majority?

Quoted message said:

So the hemoglobin is raised 'normally' .. even though NOW .. the child is dead ..

From what?

Quoted message said:

BUT .. since the hemoglobin IS within this .. window .. the iron salts / infusions did NOT raise
the hemoglobin in someone with 'normal' hemoglobin.

And?

Quoted message said:

That is how they get to SAY .. " normal people who are supplemented with iron will not achieve an
abnormal .. hemoglobin" ..

And I assume this is true?

Quoted message said:

even though the child is .. dead .

From what?

Quoted message said:

If you see what I mean.

Nope, shouldn't you be asking this on sci.med?

Quoted message said:

Or one could point to the poisoned child who has accidentally overdosed on iron .. who NOW has
erythrocytosis ..

No, a damaged gut from the pH or liver damage from the gross excess of iron in a small child?

Quoted message said:

BUT that erythrocytosis is NOT due to the iron .. it is due to 'something else' which is
idiopathic.

What erythrocytosis?

Quoted message said:

So .. generally using the markers which the medical profession uses ..

With good reason, I presume, judging by how our medical profession acts.

Quoted message said:

this very large window .. hemoglobin isn't RAISED beyond .. normal .. BUT .. when the hemoglobin
MARKER is lowered ...

Pardon?

Moosh🙂