Chorus shift lever problems

Greg Christian said:

I am having trouble getting my 10 speed Chorus setup (2004 model) to
shift into the largest cog. Whenever I shift into the largest cog, the
chain moves there as it should, but as soon as I let go of the lever, it
falls back down in to the second cog from the top.

-snip-

Inability to stay in low gear is the classic symptom of
worn/broken Ergo springs.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've only did one rebuild myself (R shifter) and that was at the 15,000
mile mark. I just replaced the G Springs, the Thumb Shifter Return
Spring, Finger Shift Lever Return Spring and the Coil Spring. I
didn't need to replace any washers. Check out the link, maybe it will
give you some more ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/lpmnd

"Greg Christian" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I am having trouble getting my 10 speed Chorus setup (2004 model) to
shift into the largest cog. Whenever I shift into the largest cog, the
chain moves there as it should, but as soon as I let go of the lever, it
falls back down in to the second cog from the top. I spent a while
adjusting the cable tension, thinking that I had the adjustment one cog
"off track" but this didn't seem to help things. After a while, I
realized that the lever would only make eight clicks in either direction
(being 10 speed it should make nine), so now maybe I am thinking that
the problem is with the lever itself.

I tried looking at the ratchet mechanism on the lever while shifting,
and it looks like at some point while upshifting the ratchet engages
into the wrong slot, thus throwing the shifter out of whack. Another
thing that leads me to thing that the problem is with the levers is that
for a while I was playing with the upper limit screw, and while I was
tightening the screw (bringing the derailleur away from the spokes) the
lever made a loud click, and the cable tension suddenly dropped to a
position corresponding to the derailleur being in the middle of the
cassette.

Does it sound like I need to rebuild the rear shifter? If so, would it
be a "traditional" rebuild (replacing the G spring, its washer and
holder), or might there be other parts that need to be replaced as well?
I would like to try and do the rebuild myself if possible.

FWIW, the lever has approximately 18,000 miles on it (many of them on
very hilly terrain, which means more shifting) and was rebuilt by a shop
~10,000 miles ago. I don't know exactly what they replaced, but I am
guessing they did a "standard" rebuild.

Thanks to all for any help.

Greg

To me it sounds more a problem with the upper limit screw. To test you can
loosen the cable and figure out how many clicks the shifter gives (9).

Hans

Greg Christian said:

Hello,

I am having trouble getting my 10 speed Chorus setup (2004 model) to
shift into the largest cog. Whenever I shift into the largest cog, the
chain moves there as it should, but as soon as I let go of the lever, it
falls back down in to the second cog from the top. I spent a while
adjusting the cable tension, thinking that I had the adjustment one cog
"off track" but this didn't seem to help things. After a while, I
realized that the lever would only make eight clicks in either direction
(being 10 speed it should make nine), so now maybe I am thinking that
the problem is with the lever itself.

I tried looking at the ratchet mechanism on the lever while shifting,
and it looks like at some point while upshifting the ratchet engages
into the wrong slot, thus throwing the shifter out of whack. Another
thing that leads me to thing that the problem is with the levers is that
for a while I was playing with the upper limit screw, and while I was
tightening the screw (bringing the derailleur away from the spokes) the
lever made a loud click, and the cable tension suddenly dropped to a
position corresponding to the derailleur being in the middle of the
cassette.

Does it sound like I need to rebuild the rear shifter? If so, would it
be a "traditional" rebuild (replacing the G spring, its washer and
holder), or might there be other parts that need to be replaced as well?
I would like to try and do the rebuild myself if possible.

Lever OVH time. Either a spring(there are two) is worn out and/or the
spring carrier is split. No need for anything else. EC-RE-209(shift
springs) and maybe EC-RE-111-If you are in the US, send it to me for a
1 day turnaround. $25 labor+parts. Overhaul front to back.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the lever has approximately 18,000 miles on it (many of them on
very hilly terrain, which means more shifting) and was rebuilt by a shop
~10,000 miles ago. I don't know exactly what they replaced, but I am
guessing they did a "standard" rebuild.

Thanks to all for any help.

Greg

A Muzi said:

Greg Christian said:

I am having trouble getting my 10 speed Chorus setup (2004 model) to
shift into the largest cog. Whenever I shift into the largest cog, the
chain moves there as it should, but as soon as I let go of the lever,
it falls back down in to the second cog from the top.

-snip-

Inability to stay in low gear is the classic symptom of worn/broken Ergo
springs.

Being unfamiliar with Ergo failures (mine are still too new), I would
never have guessed that answer. I would have said the same as Hans:
check the low limit screw on the rear derailer.

Speaking of my newish Ergos... I think they've broken in, but the shifts
are still a wee bit "stiff" for my taste. I would like a softer feel. I
recall you (Andy) or someone posting a link here regarding a way to ease
off the return springs, but I can't find it via Google groups. Anyone
else remember the article? Links, keywords? Thanks.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:11:12 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Inability to stay in low gear is the classic symptom of
worn/broken Ergo springs.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree. The beginning of the death rattle is the first click from
the high gear.

Do the 2 springs in an Ergo lever work at different ends of the
cogset? Do they wear at that same rate? I always get the soft first
click instead of the lack of hold on the low gear click. It would be
interesting to learn that one spring is ok and the other shot.

dvt said:

Speaking of my newish Ergos... I think they've broken in, but the shifts
are still a wee bit "stiff" for my taste. I would like a softer feel.

The break in period of Ergo is overrated.

The run/bend of housing and quality of cables is everything in getting
easy, distinct clicks. The cable area under the bottom bracket can
often be improved by cleaning. Sometimes, even plastic cable guides
there get grooved.

I have a trick I use to check the free movement of cables in housing.
In the stand, shift to the lowest cog. Then move the shifter down to
the smallest cog position without moving the cranks. There will be a
large amount of loose cable. Pull the last bit of cable housing out
of the stop. You can now feel the cable move through each section of
housing by moving the cable with your fingers.

It is difficult to get bicycles with short stems and the initial cable
stops alongside the headtube to be silken smooth. The housing needs
to make too sharp a bend. Sometimes crossing the cables helps. On
something like my tandem that has the old shift bosses relatively far
from the headtube, it's much easier to get that soft feel.

Kenny said:

I've only did one rebuild myself (R shifter) and that was at the 15,000
mile mark. I just replaced the G Springs, the Thumb Shifter Return
Spring, Finger Shift Lever Return Spring and the Coil Spring. I
didn't need to replace any washers. Check out the link, maybe it will
give you some more ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/lpmnd

Unless the spring carrier is broken, I've had good success with just
replacing the "g" springs. Even when the carrier doesn't fail, I've
noticed that the holes where the springs insert widen with use. I
think that this must effect precise shifting but I'm not sure. If it
does, than the the new carbon fiber spring carrier might need
maintenance replacement too.

Paul Kopit said:

Kenny said:

I've only did one rebuild myself (R shifter) and that was at the 15,000
mile mark. I just replaced the G Springs, the Thumb Shifter Return
Spring, Finger Shift Lever Return Spring and the Coil Spring. I
didn't need to replace any washers. Check out the link, maybe it will
give you some more ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/lpmnd

Unless the spring carrier is broken, I've had good success with just
replacing the "g" springs. Even when the carrier doesn't fail, I've
noticed that the holes where the springs insert widen with use. I
think that this must effect precise shifting but I'm not sure. If it
does, than the the new carbon fiber spring carrier might need
maintenance replacement too.

Paul,

Do you know where I can buy some G Springs in California?

Kenny said:

Do you know where I can buy some G Springs in California?

Family newsgroup, buddy.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

Kenny said:

I've only did one rebuild myself (R shifter) and that was at the 15,000
mile mark. I just replaced the G Springs, the Thumb Shifter Return
Spring, Finger Shift Lever Return Spring and the Coil Spring. I
didn't need to replace any washers. Check out the link, maybe it will
give you some more ideas.

http://tinyurl.com/lpmnd

Unless the spring carrier is broken, I've had good success with just
replacing the "g" springs. Even when the carrier doesn't fail, I've
noticed that the holes where the springs insert widen with use. I
think that this must effect precise shifting but I'm not sure. If it
does, than the the new carbon fiber spring carrier might need
maintenance replacement too.

Paul,

Do you know where I can buy some G Springs in California?

Any LBS should be able to get it from a Campy distributor like QBP or
Oschner. Its not that difficult. Otherwise, try contacting Andy Muzi at
www.yellowjersey.org or Peter Chisholm at www.vecchios.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Greg Christian said:

I am having trouble getting my 10 speed Chorus setup (2004 model) to
shift into the largest cog. Whenever I shift into the largest cog,
the chain moves there as it should, but as soon as I let go of the
lever, it falls back down in to the second cog from the top.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Inability to stay in low gear is the classic symptom of worn/broken
Ergo springs.

dvt said:

Being unfamiliar with Ergo failures (mine are still too new), I would
never have guessed that answer. I would have said the same as Hans:
check the low limit screw on the rear derailer.

Speaking of my newish Ergos... I think they've broken in, but the shifts
are still a wee bit "stiff" for my taste. I would like a softer feel. I
recall you (Andy) or someone posting a link here regarding a way to ease
off the return springs, but I can't find it via Google groups. Anyone
else remember the article? Links, keywords? Thanks.

Just as with Syncro, polishing the tops of the points on
your shift cam will 'soften' the feel without changing the
accuracy of the shift.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Paul Kopit said:

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:11:12 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Inability to stay in low gear is the classic symptom of
worn/broken Ergo springs.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree. The beginning of the death rattle is the first click from
the high gear.

Do the 2 springs in an Ergo lever work at different ends of the
cogset? Do they wear at that same rate? I always get the soft first
click instead of the lack of hold on the low gear click. It would be
interesting to learn that one spring is ok and the other shot.

You've been inside an Ergo. The springs act in unison. And
wear at roughly the same rate.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

dvt said:

Speaking of my newish Ergos... I think they've broken in, but the shifts
are still a wee bit "stiff" for my taste. I would like a softer feel.

Paul Kopit said:

The break in period of Ergo is overrated.

The run/bend of housing and quality of cables is everything in getting
easy, distinct clicks. The cable area under the bottom bracket can
often be improved by cleaning. Sometimes, even plastic cable guides
there get grooved.

I have a trick I use to check the free movement of cables in housing.
In the stand, shift to the lowest cog. Then move the shifter down to
the smallest cog position without moving the cranks. There will be a
large amount of loose cable. Pull the last bit of cable housing out
of the stop. You can now feel the cable move through each section of
housing by moving the cable with your fingers.

It is difficult to get bicycles with short stems and the initial cable
stops alongside the headtube to be silken smooth. The housing needs
to make too sharp a bend. Sometimes crossing the cables helps. On
something like my tandem that has the old shift bosses relatively far
from the headtube, it's much easier to get that soft feel.

Agreed.
We are often asked to redo new Ergo/STi bikes purchased
elsewhere and find cable setup at fault in most cases.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Kenny said:

Do you know where I can buy some G Springs in California?

Call us or Vecchio's if your LBS doesn't stock service parts.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I am hoping to find a shop which already has them in-stock and located
in California.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am hoping to find a shop which already has them in-stock and located
in California.

OK, since you don't say where in California you're located, a couple of
shops in the SF Bay Area that should have the springs:

Bike Nook, American Cyclery, City Cycles in SF; A Bicycle Odyssey in
Sausalito; Stones in Alameda; Jitensha in Berkeley. Good Luck!

Kenny said:

Paul,

Do you know where I can buy some G Springs in California?

Any local shop can have them quickly. I believe that Euro Asia, the
distributor in La Crescenta here in the Los Angeles area, has them.

I've been getting mine as a 'fee'. When someone asks me to show them
how to rebuild, I ask them to order a spare set of springs for me.
I've usually referred them to either Vecchio's or Yellowjersey.org. I
always recommend having a spring carrier on hand when you open and a
new run of housing and cable.

If I only knew where to get new rubber at discount. A couple of years
ago, I was buying for $8 per set plus shipping from a gray market guy
in Europe. I only bought a couple of sets and didn't realize how
costly the rubber usually is. I ride the hoods. It saves me bartape
but the hoods do thin and evaporate with time.

Paul Kopit said:

dvt said:

Speaking of my newish Ergos... I think they've broken in, but the shifts
are still a wee bit "stiff" for my taste. I would like a softer feel.

The break in period of Ergo is overrated.

I found a very noticeable difference over the first few months of use.
But I didn't measure anything, so I can't prove or disprove that
statement with numbers. As usual, YMMV.

Don't forget... my shifting is *not* bad, rough, or anything like that.
We're talking about a pretty minor issue, IMO. But the Shimano shifter
action was a tad lighter, and I liked that.

Quoted message said:

The run/bend of housing and quality of cables is everything in getting
easy, distinct clicks. The cable area under the bottom bracket can
often be improved by cleaning. Sometimes, even plastic cable guides
there get grooved.

I have a trick I use to check the free movement of cables in housing.
In the stand, shift to the lowest cog. Then move the shifter down to
the smallest cog position without moving the cranks. There will be a
large amount of loose cable. Pull the last bit of cable housing out
of the stop. You can now feel the cable move through each section of
housing by moving the cable with your fingers.

Done that, been there. I'll check again when I get the bike in the
stand, but I'm sure the cables ran very nicely when I first installed
the shifters. And the shifting has become noticeably easier with time,
so I don't think the cables have gotten worse.

Quoted message said:

It is difficult to get bicycles with short stems and the initial cable
stops alongside the headtube to be silken smooth. The housing needs
to make too sharp a bend. Sometimes crossing the cables helps. On
something like my tandem that has the old shift bosses relatively far
from the headtube, it's much easier to get that soft feel.

Thanks for the tips. I usually cross the cables, but this bike doesn't
allow that. I run a moderately long stem (130 mm, I think). But as you
suggest, the downtube cable stops are too close to the head tube for my
liking.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu