Broken Spoke

Per Marian:

Quoted message said:

What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

I'm no expert, but I weigh about 220# and break the occasional rear spoke.

My experience is that there's no problem riding it home.

Some people carry a spoke wrench against that event and use it to temporarily
re-adjust the spokes to put the wheel back in true.

I carry one too, but have a disc brake back there and think that whatever is
saved by not having a little wobble on the ride back is lost when I have to
re-true the wheel with several spokes instead of just the new one out of
adjustment.

If I did re-true in the field, I think I'd write the number of turns on the rim
next to each spoke that I adjusted.
--
PeteCresswell

Marian Rosenberg said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Quoted message said:

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the
future until eventually all of them have been replaced. So, I guess
my newest need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a
wheel since I like riding places where it isn't that easy to get
back to the bike shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's
approach was to snip the remainder of the offending spoke with a
pair of a wire clippers and proclaim it done.

There is no reason why your slightly tweaked wheel should need new
spokes unless its spokes were poor quality spokes from the beginning.
Even a completely collapsed wheel does not need new spokes. If the
wheel has a large wow in it, straighten that first and then got to
work with a spoke wrench.

Quoted message said:

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if
I kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the
future, I mean... will it speed up the deterioration of the spokes
I've got? Will it stress my one new spoke?

No and don't worry about it. If the rim doesn't have a kink in it, it
is OK as well.

Quoted message said:

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

You can find out how to do all this and why in "the Bicycle Wheel"
available at many bicycle shops as well as Amazon or ABEbooks on the
web.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt
http://tinyurl.com/lcgyu
http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Marian Rosenberg said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Quoted message said:

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the
future until eventually all of them have been replaced. So, I guess
my newest need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a
wheel since I like riding places where it isn't that easy to get
back to the bike shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's
approach was to snip the remainder of the offending spoke with a
pair of a wire clippers and proclaim it done.

There is no reason why your slightly tweaked wheel should need new
spokes unless its spokes were poor quality spokes from the beginning.
Even a completely collapsed wheel does not need new spokes. If the
wheel has a large wow in it, straighten that first and then got to
work with a spoke wrench.

They did straighten it and retrue it after the accident.

They very well may have been poor quality spokes. It is a barely $400
bike and I have the factory wheels on it instead of anything hand
built.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if
I kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the
future, I mean... will it speed up the deterioration of the spokes
I've got? Will it stress my one new spoke?

No and don't worry about it. If the rim doesn't have a kink in it, it
is OK as well.

Quoted message said:

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

You can find out how to do all this and why in "the Bicycle Wheel"
available at many bicycle shops as well as Amazon or ABEbooks on the
web.

I'll probably get that on my next trip to the US. And make translating
it into Chinese autumn's excuse for hanging out in the back of the bike
shop.

-M

Marian Rosenberg said:

Quoted message said:

You can find out how to do all this and why in "the Bicycle Wheel"
available at many bicycle shops as well as Amazon or ABEbooks on
the web.

Quoted message said:

I'll probably get that on my next trip to the US. And make
translating it into Chinese autumn's excuse for hanging out in the
back of the bike shop.

That's an interesting idea. I'm sure if you can find a publisher who
knows how to distribute it, you could do yourself some financial good.
Let me know what you have in mind.

Jobst Brandt

On 4 Mar 2006 06:15:10 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

I can't think of a good reason why. Stress-relieve the ones that are
still present as well as the one you replace, and it's likely that no
additional failures will occur.

Quoted message said:

So, I guess my newest
need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a wheel since I
like riding places where it isn't that easy to get back to the bike
shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's approach was to snip
the remainder of the offending spoke with a pair of a wire clippers and
proclaim it done.

Oy. I'd stay away from that one if it was here. Of course, we're
probably talking about shops whose main thrust is to keep the expense
at a minimum and get the rider back on the street as swiftly as
possible, since much of China still relies on bikes for everyday
transport...and many people use them in their jobs as well. This
tends to foster a "quick fix" mentality.

Quoted message said:

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if I
kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

If the wheel didn't go so far out of true that it was hazardous to
ride with one spoke broken (which is a real problem with
low-spoke-count wheels), you could ride it for quite a distance
without causing any permanent harm.

Quoted message said:

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

It is possible that some of what you may be told is not good
information. Politely listen and pay attention, but if you feel that
something is not quite adding up, ask about it here.

You might also consider ordering a repair guide from over here. I
find that Zinn's books are pretty good; understandable and relatively
comprehensive. I doubt that English-language bookstores are plentiful
in your area.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On 4 Mar 2006 06:15:10 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

I can't think of a good reason why. Stress-relieve the ones that are
still present as well as the one you replace, and it's likely that no
additional failures will occur.

Since, unlike an American bike shop (or garage for cars), the broken
spoke was replaced for free ... with no service charge (and we won't
even go into the mechanic loaning me the small change for the taxi), I
can't see them wanting me to come back again and again for future
repairs ...

He did spend a while fussing with the other spokes, so he may have been
doing just that. And there is a certain tendency on the part of this
mechanic to want me to believe things are more difficult than they
actually are so that I will continue to be impressed by how wonderfully
he does his job.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, I guess my newest
need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a wheel since I
like riding places where it isn't that easy to get back to the bike
shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's approach was to snip
the remainder of the offending spoke with a pair of a wire clippers and
proclaim it done.

Oy. I'd stay away from that one if it was here. Of course, we're
probably talking about shops whose main thrust is to keep the expense
at a minimum and get the rider back on the street as swiftly as
possible, since much of China still relies on bikes for everyday
transport...and many people use them in their jobs as well. This
tends to foster a "quick fix" mentality.

Next picture to go into the Bikes of China journal is my preferred
streetside shop patching tubes for me. And taking apart someone's
scary mountain bike. Since getting a bike where the tubes have presta
valves I've been less and less able to use the streetside places, and
since getting one that expensive I've fostered a relationship with the
bike shop where most of my repairwork is free. But they want me to
patch my own tubes (probably character building or some garbage like
that) and I'd rather just collect four or five tubes and spend 5rmb
while getting my bike washed (3rmb).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if I
kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

If the wheel didn't go so far out of true that it was hazardous to
ride with one spoke broken (which is a real problem with
low-spoke-count wheels), you could ride it for quite a distance
without causing any permanent harm.

36 spoke wheels...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

It is possible that some of what you may be told is not good
information. Politely listen and pay attention, but if you feel that
something is not quite adding up, ask about it here.

yep 🙂 And ask about it at the other shop. And ask the other
mechanics for clarification. And ask to be shown hands on a few times.

Quoted message said:

You might also consider ordering a repair guide from over here. I
find that Zinn's books are pretty good; understandable and relatively
comprehensive. I doubt that English-language bookstores are plentiful
in your area.

Actually, we've got a big Xinhua which can order things. And which, in
the days before I had Chinese homework and a bike club to keep me
occupied was a godsend. But, I spend summer in the states and can get
books then.

As long as I'm on Hainan I've got a relationship with the two shops
where my repairwork is generally free ... and where, if the repair job
takes sufficiently long enough, I may end up eating dinner at the bike
shop. Since I've been fairly unsuccessful in inviting them out to
dinner on my tab I've started guerilla tactics of bringing yummy snacks
with me when I go to the bike shop.

(Girls, even rich girls, are supposed to let the men pay. Inviting
them out as a way of thanks doesn't work too well since they inevitably
want to pay for the meal I invited them to.)

-M

Quoted message said:

Marian Rosenberg said:

Quoted message said:

You can find out how to do all this and why in "the Bicycle Wheel"
available at many bicycle shops as well as Amazon or ABEbooks on
the web.

Quoted message said:

I'll probably get that on my next trip to the US. And make
translating it into Chinese autumn's excuse for hanging out in the
back of the bike shop.

That's an interesting idea. I'm sure if you can find a publisher who
knows how to distribute it, you could do yourself some financial good.
Let me know what you have in mind.

For starters, I was thinking translation practice combined with
learning bike stuff and flirting with the cute bike shop manager.

Financial good comes into the equation much later ...

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

Your 'mechanic' is wrong. The problem isn't the spkes but the rim. It
is bent, deformed, whatever, to the point of irratic and probably in
one or more places, low tension. Think of taking a coat hanger and
bending it back and forth, back and gforth. You need a new rim, reuse
the spokes, if it's the same rim.

So, I guess my newest

Quoted message said:

need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a wheel since I
like riding places where it isn't that easy to get back to the bike
shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's approach was to snip
the remainder of the offending spoke with a pair of a wire clippers and
proclaim it done.

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if I
kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

-M

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

there's good wisdom in that if you're a bike shop and don't want the
bike coming back repeatedly. when re-spoking, use a good quality spoke.
it'll do more for fatigue resistance than any other witchcraft you'll
read on this forum.

Quoted message said:

So, I guess my newest
need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a wheel since I
like riding places where it isn't that easy to get back to the bike
shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's approach was to snip
the remainder of the offending spoke with a pair of a wire clippers and
proclaim it done.

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if I
kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

-M

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

Your 'mechanic' is wrong. The problem isn't the spkes but the rim. It
is bent, deformed, whatever, to the point of irratic and probably in
one or more places, low tension. Think of taking a coat hanger and
bending it back and forth, back and gforth. You need a new rim, reuse
the spokes, if it's the same rim.

In that case, since spare spokes are free to regulars and new rims
aren't, why not try to sell me a new rim?

-M

On 8 Mar 2006 07:30:49 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

Your 'mechanic' is wrong. The problem isn't the spkes but the rim. It
is bent, deformed, whatever, to the point of irratic and probably in
one or more places, low tension. Think of taking a coat hanger and
bending it back and forth, back and gforth. You need a new rim, reuse
the spokes, if it's the same rim.

In that case, since spare spokes are free to regulars and new rims
aren't, why not try to sell me a new rim?

I think Peter's looking at this as though it were a typical US shop to
a certain degree, where the customer *usually* is well-heeled enough
to afford repairs, and where the liability for not recommending the
best possible fix is a concern of the shop owner from several
standpoints at the same time (loss of credibility if the problem is
more correctly diagnosed elsewhere, loss of sales, and slight
potential for legal issues if a customer has a problem as a result of
not making the full recommendation). I also suspect that he may be
factoring in the perception that you're encountering a repair
mentality of "just replace the stuff that's so bad it can't be fudged
back into service...and then only if the item's complete loss makes
the bike useless." This latter sort of attitude is also seen in the
US in many places. In my personal experience, it has been most
strongly reflected in the pre-existing "repairs" I have seen on bikes
from poverty-stricken areas. Some of the folks in this newsgroup
would probably be amazed and appalled by the "field engineering" and
broken-but-still-in-service things I have encountered on bikes that
I've bought at police auctions; others have doubtless seen more of
such than they care to think about.

The important but perhaps insufficiently addressed part of Peter's
message, however, is that it would be prudent to check whether the rim
appears to have been bent badly in the wreck you mentioned. For a
front wheel, one quick and somewhat informative test is to pluck the
spokes and see if there's an entire region where the spokes on one
side are significantly tighter than the ones on the other side, while
the rest of the wheel is fairly even. If they all produce something
fairly close to the same tone when plucked (with, almost inevitably, a
few scattered exceptions), and the wheel runs true, then the rim can
be assumed to be straight.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Marian said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

Your 'mechanic' is wrong. The problem isn't the spkes but the rim. It
is bent, deformed, whatever, to the point of irratic and probably in
one or more places, low tension. Think of taking a coat hanger and
bending it back and forth, back and gforth. You need a new rim, reuse
the spokes, if it's the same rim.

In that case, since spare spokes are free to regulars and new rims
aren't, why not try to sell me a new rim?

Spare spokes won't keep the spokes from breaking. If you want a long
term solution, replace the rim, not broken spokes. There are many
idiots out there who call themselves bike mechanics.

Quoted message said:

-M

jim beam said:

Marian said:

With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
yesterday.

Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
until eventually all of them have been replaced.

there's good wisdom in that if you're a bike shop and don't want the
bike coming back repeatedly. when re-spoking, use a good quality spoke.
it'll do more for fatigue resistance than any other witchcraft you'll
read on this forum.

Quoted message said:

So, I guess my newest
need to learn skill is how to thread a spoke and true a wheel since I
like riding places where it isn't that easy to get back to the bike
shops and since the nearest corner repair stand's approach was to snip
the remainder of the offending spoke with a pair of a wire clippers and
proclaim it done.

I took a taxi to the bike shop. Probably overkill but the wheel was
slightly out of true and I wasn't real sure what I could do to it if I
kept riding. What could I do to it if I kept riding? In the future, I
mean... will it speed up the deterioriation of the spokes I've got?
Will it stress my one new spoke?

Ah Hua is usually too busy to teach me stuff so I'm going to make
"teaching me spokes" the first installment of my payment for teaching
the bike shop manager English.

-M

Good idea for the customer as well. a few 'replace broken spokes and
retrue' and the cost is the same as a new rim/labor. $15 per reture,
complete with the tire off, $.60 per spokes-3 times =$45 + and the
problem still exists.

Werehatrack said:

On 8 Mar 2006 07:30:49 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Marian wrote:
> With all the stuff on here recently about how spokes break and this
> that and the other, it seems appropriate that I broke a spoke
> yesterday.
>
> Since this is the same wheel that was struck by a motorcycle back in
> December the mechanic says to expect more broken spokes in the future
> until eventually all of them have been replaced.

Your 'mechanic' is wrong. The problem isn't the spkes but the rim. It
is bent, deformed, whatever, to the point of irratic and probably in
one or more places, low tension. Think of taking a coat hanger and
bending it back and forth, back and gforth. You need a new rim, reuse
the spokes, if it's the same rim.

In that case, since spare spokes are free to regulars and new rims
aren't, why not try to sell me a new rim?

I think Peter's looking at this as though it were a typical US shop to
a certain degree, where the customer *usually* is well-heeled enough
to afford repairs, and where the liability for not recommending the
best possible fix is a concern of the shop owner from several
standpoints at the same time (loss of credibility if the problem is
more correctly diagnosed elsewhere, loss of sales, and slight
potential for legal issues if a customer has a problem as a result of
not making the full recommendation). I also suspect that he may be
factoring in the perception that you're encountering a repair
mentality of "just replace the stuff that's so bad it can't be fudged
back into service...and then only if the item's complete loss makes
the bike useless." This latter sort of attitude is also seen in the
US in many places. In my personal experience, it has been most
strongly reflected in the pre-existing "repairs" I have seen on bikes
from poverty-stricken areas. Some of the folks in this newsgroup
would probably be amazed and appalled by the "field engineering" and
broken-but-still-in-service things I have encountered on bikes that
I've bought at police auctions; others have doubtless seen more of
such than they care to think about.

That's the mentality I'm accustomed to encountering outside of the bike
shops.

(For the purposes of this newsgroup, Haikou only has two bike shops.
The others are merely shops which specialize in selling bikes.)

At the bike shops they do quite a fair bit of replacing of things that
I consider to still be serviceable. Such as inner tubes. I don't see
any reason why a tube should be thrown out merely because it's the
fifth time it has gotten a flat. That's why there are patches.

They are somewhat less inclined to fudge things. I've seen fudging
done on repairwork but since they don't charge for repair (but do
charge for replacement) of parts, it's in their best interest to sell
me something new.

If it came down to having 36 spokes replaced one at a time I would pay
nothing but my time, time that might have been spent doing other things
like sitting in the back of the bike shop watching the mechanics work
on someone else's bike instead of sitting in the back of the bike shop
watching the mechanics work on my bike or sitting in the back of the
bike shop using the internet.

Quoted message said:

The important but perhaps insufficiently addressed part of Peter's
message, however, is that it would be prudent to check whether the rim
appears to have been bent badly in the wreck you mentioned. For a
front wheel, one quick and somewhat informative test is to pluck the
spokes and see if there's an entire region where the spokes on one
side are significantly tighter than the ones on the other side, while
the rest of the wheel is fairly even. If they all produce something
fairly close to the same tone when plucked (with, almost inevitably, a
few scattered exceptions), and the wheel runs true, then the rim can
be assumed to be straight.

It's the rear wheel.

Any particular special way of testing that?

-M

On 9 Mar 2006 00:49:58 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

The important but perhaps insufficiently addressed part of Peter's
message, however, is that it would be prudent to check whether the rim
appears to have been bent badly in the wreck you mentioned. For a
front wheel, one quick and somewhat informative test is to pluck the
spokes and see if there's an entire region where the spokes on one
side are significantly tighter than the ones on the other side, while
the rest of the wheel is fairly even. If they all produce something
fairly close to the same tone when plucked (with, almost inevitably, a
few scattered exceptions), and the wheel runs true, then the rim can
be assumed to be straight.

It's the rear wheel.

Any particular special way of testing that?

The same way, except that you compare tones between the spokes on one
side only; look for a region where the spokes on one side are all
looser than normal (the tone is noticeably lower when plucked) while
the spokes on the other side are tighter than normal. Don't be too
surprised if you fail to find such a single region; if the spoke
tightness is all over the range and the wheel is reasonably true, it's
not necessarily an indication that it's bent; hasty or incautious
truing can have this result.

Of course, given that it's a 36-spoke wheel, there's not a lot to be
lost by simply riding it and seeing if there are any additional
failures before taking action. If it doesn't break, what's there to
fix?
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.