Incest?

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it just me, or is BROL rather too enthusiastic?

Reading their reviews, almost everything seems perfect.

Is there an unhealthy relationship between them and the vendors?

Surely there's a piece-of-[censored] recumbent out there!

Actually, there were a few around several years ago, but they didn't last
long because we are such a small and closed community. Once the word gets
out, only newbies will get taken in. I do remember the infamous Blackbent (a
SWB which was quite cheap) which I believe was sold through Bike Barn at the
time. Everyone was complaining about it and so it did not last long.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

NYC XYZ said:

Is it just me, or is BROL rather too enthusiastic?

No, IMO Bryan is indeed enthusiastic about 'bents, but not blind for
failures and weak points.

Quoted message said:

Reading their reviews, almost everything seems perfect.

Perhaps you've read different reviews, but after a quick look at the
newest review of the Colombian Route-X Neoc I wonder how you've come to
your conclusion:

http://www.bentrideronline.com/reviews/neoc/neoc.html

Quotes:

"When I first assembled the Neoc, I can't say that I was impressed with
the craftsmanship.  The welds and machine work were not up to the
standards of other production bikes."

"The seat itself is not as cozy as a RANS or Bacchetta Recurve (the base
was a bit too firm for my liking) but it wasn't bad enough to detract
from bike's overall agreeable comfort level.  The seatback is
unsupported and while it appears to be strong enough, I would keep an
eye on it.

"I was thoroughly unimpressed with the bike's suspension fork.  It was
way too undersprung and pogoed quite excessively even under moderate
acceleration.  It is also of very poor quality for a $1400 bike."
....

Bryan's reviews seem in most cases honest and fair to me. Of course,
sometimes you have to read a bit between the lines, but overall I don't
think he's too enthusiastic about the reviewed 'bents.

Quoted message said:

Is there an unhealthy relationship between them and the vendors?

Bryan stands between the lines a bit: He tries to make a living out of
BROL and gets part of his money via advertisements. So it wouldn't be
wise to offend or bash the advertisers. That's a fact always to remember
when visiting his site.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be wise either to lie about the quality
of the 'bents - for obvious reasons. Recumbent riders do not tend to be
the dumbest people around and trying to dupe them soon would turn out
suicidal.

Quoted message said:

Surely there's a piece-of-[censored] recumbent out there!

Maybe, but I've yet to stumble over one - made by an established
manufacturer for a reasonable price. The chance to find a POS on two
wheels is surely bigger at Walmart for $98.99. Even the entry level
'bents are mostly acceptable. Heavy and slow, yes, sometimes ugly too,
but not of really poor quality. They are overall worth the money and in
most cases easy to resell.

BTW:I suspect you actually meant "corruption" instead of "incest", but
the latter of course sounds far more spectacular. ;-)

Kurt

"Kurt Fischer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[...]

Quoted message said:

Maybe, but I've yet to stumble over one - made by an established
manufacturer for a reasonable price. The chance to find a POS on two
wheels is surely bigger at Walmart for $98.99. Even the entry level
'bents are mostly acceptable. Heavy and slow, yes, sometimes ugly too,
but not of really poor quality. They are overall worth the money and in
most cases easy to resell.

I was out to Wal-Mart the other day and had a look at their many bikes, many
of them hanging from the ceiling. My God, for less than $100. you can't go
wrong. I will tell you one thing, if I had a kid who wanted a bike for just
riding around town, I would get him one of those bikes and never look back.
How they make them look so great is the real mystery.

I have a few old klunker bikes of my own and if you take care of them they
will last forever. Yes, they are a bit heavy, but so what. You only ride
these kind of bikes around town. You do not embark on a cross country tour
on them, although I have seen that done too.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Kurt Fischer said:

No, IMO Bryan is indeed enthusiastic about 'bents, but not blind for
failures and weak points.

Okay, glad to hear it. I can certainly sense the enthusiasm, but it's
almost like he goes out of his way to stay positive.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you've read different reviews, but after a quick look at the
newest review of the Colombian Route-X Neoc I wonder how you've come to
your conclusion:

http://www.bentrideronline.com/reviews/neoc/neoc.html

Quotes:

"When I first assembled the Neoc, I can't say that I was impressed with
the craftsmanship. The welds and machine work were not up to the
standards of other production bikes."

"The seat itself is not as cozy as a RANS or Bacchetta Recurve (the base
was a bit too firm for my liking) but it wasn't bad enough to detract
from bike's overall agreeable comfort level. The seatback is
unsupported and while it appears to be strong enough, I would keep an
eye on it.

"I was thoroughly unimpressed with the bike's suspension fork. It was
way too undersprung and pogoed quite excessively even under moderate
acceleration. It is also of very poor quality for a $1400 bike."
...

Indeed! This reminds me of those situations when your copier doesn't
work but then the repairman shows up and voila it runs just fine.

But you do see that in the article Bryan tries to conclude on an upbeat
note, which seems dissonant with what he's been saying all along. To
my way of thinking, saying that the bike isn't good doesn't square with
also saying that you hope to see more from the company which made it.

Quoted message said:

Bryan's reviews seem in most cases honest and fair to me. Of course,
sometimes you have to read a bit between the lines, but overall I don't
think he's too enthusiastic about the reviewed 'bents.

Ah, well, maybe I'm just used to the no-holds-barred style of anonymous
amazon reviews, then!

Quoted message said:

Bryan stands between the lines a bit: He tries to make a living out of
BROL and gets part of his money via advertisements. So it wouldn't be
wise to offend or bash the advertisers. That's a fact always to remember
when visiting his site.

Okay

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, it wouldn't be wise either to lie about the quality
of the 'bents - for obvious reasons. Recumbent riders do not tend to be
the dumbest people around and trying to dupe them soon would turn out
suicidal.

Well, it's not like one "purposely" tries to dupe people; as Socrates
said, no man knowingly does evil, but that he feels there is a wider
good involved.

Quoted message said:

Maybe, but I've yet to stumble over one - made by an established
manufacturer for a reasonable price. The chance to find a POS on two
wheels is surely bigger at Walmart for $98.99. Even the entry level
'bents are mostly acceptable. Heavy and slow, yes, sometimes ugly too,
but not of really poor quality. They are overall worth the money and in
most cases easy to resell.

I'm surprised these ActionBents have such good user reviews (and
further surprised that RCN and BROL have not reviewed them). Maybe
I'll look to them for a third 'bent in the future! Already I'm
thinking of the Maxarya Ray 1-X (the hell kinda name is that) from
Canada in place of the HP Velo Spirit...any opinions?

Quoted message said:

BTW:I suspect you actually meant "corruption" instead of "incest", but
the latter of course sounds far more spectacular. ;-)

Spectacular, eh? Hmm...I got it! Here's how you make 'bents the next
X-Mas must-have: make it a taboo!

Quoted message said:

Kurt

NYC XYZ said:

Okay, glad to hear it. I can certainly sense the enthusiasm, but it's
almost like he goes out of his way to stay positive.

Surely that's to some extent due to the fact he's running a business
where every manufacturer might sign up sooner or later as advertiser.
But mainly I think it's in the first line his character, his style.
Controversial discussions on his site are okay, but he doesn't like (and
allow) harsh words, offences, political or religious debates,...

Bryan seems to like harmony on BROL, and I don't think that's a bad
thing - as long as the pure information remains honest and transparent.
For the darker and less harmony seeking side of our recumbent souls we
still have ARBR after all. ;-)

Quoted message said:

But you do see that in the article Bryan tries to conclude on an upbeat
note, which seems dissonant with what he's been saying all along. To
my way of thinking, saying that the bike isn't good doesn't square with
also saying that you hope to see more from the company which made it.

For me it's clear that Bryan considers the Neoc still a prototype - far
from being perfect, but full of potential. And he has the confidence the
manufacturer is able and keen to develop and fine-tune his recumbent. So
his review is to be seen as kind of encouragement and stimulation. He
wants the manufacturer to keep on working and not to give up - not a bad
strategy if you ask me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bryan's reviews seem in most cases honest and fair to me. Of course,
sometimes you have to read a bit between the lines, but overall I don't
think he's too enthusiastic about the reviewed 'bents.

Ah, well, maybe I'm just used to the no-holds-barred style of anonymous
amazon reviews, then!

"Anonymous" is the crucial word. Unlike an anonymous reviewer Bryan is
responsible for his words - towards the readers as well as towards the
manufacturers. No wonder he has to chose his words a bit more carefully.

Quoted message said:

Well, it's not like one "purposely" tries to dupe people; as Socrates
said, no man knowingly does evil, but that he feels there is a wider
good involved.

Speaking of "good": Please don't forget recumbents are not about truth
or absolute values, in the end all comes down to *personal* likings,
opinions and preferences. USS versus ASS, mesh seat versus hard shell,
LWB versus SWB, made in USA versus oversea production, high versus low,
and so on...

What's my "good" may be your "bad" and vice versa. Every serious
reviewer has to be aware of this fundamental law of recumbency. One
single wrong word and the mob is chasing you - or in this case Bryan -
you always have to be cautious not to step on anyone's feet. That's in
my opinion the main reason why most of the reviews are quite tame.

Best bet for a reviewer is to admit that he's biased and to make clear
the nature of this bias. In the end every rider has to decide for
himself - preferably by riding the targeted 'bent(s), not only by
reading reviews.

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised these ActionBents have such good user reviews (and
further surprised that RCN and BROL have not reviewed them). Maybe
I'll look to them for a third 'bent in the future! Already I'm
thinking of the Maxarya Ray 1-X (the hell kinda name is that) from
Canada in place of the HP Velo Spirit...any opinions?

Test ride them, and you'll see it. ;-)
I have to echo Pete's words: You can't judge if a 'bent fits you by
reading reviews or studying catalogues only.

Quoted message said:

Spectacular, eh? Hmm...I got it! Here's how you make 'bents the next
X-Mas must-have: make it a taboo!

There's indeed a certain logic in your proposal. Outlaw it, and it will
become interesting. O wait, didn't the UCI ban recumbents about 70 years
ago? So it may work, but it will take a looong time... ;-)

Kurt

"Kurt Fischer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Okay, glad to hear it. I can certainly sense the enthusiasm, but it's
almost like he goes out of his way to stay positive.

Surely that's to some extent due to the fact he's running a business
where every manufacturer might sign up sooner or later as advertiser.
But mainly I think it's in the first line his character, his style.
Controversial discussions on his site are okay, but he doesn't like (and
allow) harsh words, offences, political or religious debates,...

Bryan Ball was perfectly OK as long as what was being said on ARBR was
nothing but liberal rants and raves. When I introduced him to some
conservative rants and raves, he quickly took exception and proffered the
belief that only liberals should be on newsgroups. He soon left ARBR and he
has been my mortal enemy ever since.

Quoted message said:

Bryan seems to like harmony on BROL, and I don't think that's a bad
thing - as long as the pure information remains honest and transparent.
For the darker and less harmony seeking side of our recumbent souls we
still have ARBR after all. ;-)

[...]

Hmmm ... this is surely not directed at Ed Dolan whose Greatness extends
over all things recumbent related and, in fact, universe related. Jeez,
there is just no pleasing some folks.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

...
Actually, there were a few around several years ago, but they didn't last
long because we are such a small and closed community. Once the word gets
out, only newbies will get taken in. I do remember the infamous Blackbent (a
SWB which was quite cheap) which I believe was sold through Bike Barn at the
time. Everyone was complaining about it and so it did not last long....

The name of the company was Recumbant (sic) Barn. They could have at
least got the spelling of "Recumbent" correct.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
Actually, there were a few around several years ago, but they didn't last
long because we are such a small and closed community. Once the word gets
out, only newbies will get taken in. I do remember the infamous Blackbent
(a
SWB which was quite cheap) which I believe was sold through Bike Barn at
the
time. Everyone was complaining about it and so it did not last long....

A fine example of how an accountant can be so inept at manageing what is
essentially a design/engineering project. You can't just spec cheap frames,
shoddy components and inept assembly and offer the suckers their money and
exist for long in a world of products that are for the most part well
designed, engineered, tested and modified until they are good handleing
rideable machines. I thought about a Blackbent for a while until I went to
'bent friendly shop and test rode and drooled over the wares. I finally
bought a RANS V-rex, and it turned out to be a good choice.

Quoted message said:

The name of the company was Recumbant (sic) Barn. They could have at
least got the spelling of "Recumbent" correct.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

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