Open Sea Swim - Advice

JJ said:

Hi, I have an open sea crossing to complete in April (between to
mediteranean islands - its about 4.5K) . Originally I was part of a big
group doing the swim but now for various reasons its just little old me (and
I have a lot of sponsorship so i pretty much need to get it done).

The issue is, I am no longer going to have coaches to brief me and no longer
got experienced open sea swimmers piloting the boats - I will have a (local)
qualified rescue diver (and first aider) piloting the support boat but he is
not a distance swimmer.

So, could anyone give me :

a) Advice on the swim
b) Advice on instructions to give my boat support ?

I am training pretty hard (in a pool) so the distance should not present a
problem (assuming good weather conditions) but I have only done a couple of
outdoor swims before and they were on calm fresh water lakes.

Once of my biggest worries is consumption of salt water (I seem to swallow a
lot when swimming) - and I can only breathe on one side (I swim front
crawl) - so if the waves are the wrong way - I may swallow even more. Also,
will salt water cause chaffing more than fresh ? I just bought a new wet
suite (although I hope not to need it on the day if its not too cold) and
unless I can persuade the gym here in the UK to let me train in the wet
suite, the 1st time I wear it maybe the on the day of the swim - I was a bit
worried about getting abbrasion sores - is this likely - I intent to use
vaseline to help out in the this respect.

ANY advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

JJ

Hi JJ

You sound like, overall, you are fairly well prepared, a couple of
suggestions I would have are.

1) It's probably too late now but you should really try to develop some
proficiency breathing on both sides. My usual pattern in the pool is
3-stroke bilateral but if neccessary in the sea I switch to one side
only. I find a 4-2-4-2-4-2 ... breathing pattern works well for me, I
can do this on either side.

2) Get in the sea as much as possible between now & the swim. There
are quite a lot of different factors than pool swimming that you really
need to develop some experience of directly, ie waves, navigating, etc.

3) Also do as much training as you can in your wet suit, preferably in
the sea but in the pool if that is all you can manage, so you can get a
feel for it & work out where it is going to chafe you. I can just
about guarantee that it will chafe you somewhere. Round the neck is
the worst area, though I also have trouble with the seams under my
armpits.

There really doesn't seem to be a good solution to the problem of wet
suit chafing. Most people use vaseline though the wet suit
manufacturers stipulate that you should not use vaseline anywhere near
their suits. Anhydrous lanolin (wool fat) is another alternative. I
have seen some people with sticking plaster all over their necks but I
think it is very difficult to find something that will stay put in the
water and not pull uncomfortably at your skin. I find that a rash vest
worn under the wetsuit can help, I can pull it up between the collar &
my neck and it also protects my underarms.

Personnally, unless the water is very cold and/or there is no special
consideration in an event for non-wetsuit swimmers, then I don't wear
my wetsuit in anything over about a 2km swim, as the discomfort from
chafing, and time spent fiddling around with it trying to stop the
chafing, outweighs the warmth and bouyancy advantage of it.

Even without the suit you can still get chafing from the salt water as
your limbs contact against each other as you swim, again I find that
underarms are the worst for me. Anyhydrous lanolin is apparently the
distance swimmers' protection of choice.

4) Although unpleasant, I haven't found that swallowing salt water is a
major concern. Drink plenty of fluid before you start (though most of
this gets deposited back in the water fairly quickly!) and as you have
a support boat with you, you could get them to carry drink bottles for
you to drink from as you need. An eloctrolyte replacement drink is the
best to have, find one that you like the taste of before you go.

5) Do not be doing anything for the "first time" on the day. Make sure
you have tested out all the suits, goggles, drinks, etc you will be
using several times beforehand.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Liz D

"JJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I have an open sea crossing to complete in April (between to
mediteranean islands - its about 4.5K) . Originally I was part of a big
group doing the swim but now for various reasons its just little old me

(and

Quoted message said:

I have a lot of sponsorship so i pretty much need to get it done).

The issue is, I am no longer going to have coaches to brief me and no

longer

Quoted message said:

got experienced open sea swimmers piloting the boats - I will have a

(local)

Quoted message said:

qualified rescue diver (and first aider) piloting the support boat but he

is

Quoted message said:

not a distance swimmer.

So, could anyone give me :

a) Advice on the swim
b) Advice on instructions to give my boat support ?

I am training pretty hard (in a pool) so the distance should not present a
problem (assuming good weather conditions) but I have only done a couple

of

Quoted message said:

outdoor swims before and they were on calm fresh water lakes.

Once of my biggest worries is consumption of salt water (I seem to swallow

a

Quoted message said:

lot when swimming) - and I can only breathe on one side (I swim front
crawl) - so if the waves are the wrong way - I may swallow even more.

Also,

Quoted message said:

will salt water cause chaffing more than fresh ? I just bought a new wet
suite (although I hope not to need it on the day if its not too cold) and
unless I can persuade the gym here in the UK to let me train in the wet
suite, the 1st time I wear it maybe the on the day of the swim - I was a

bit

Quoted message said:

worried about getting abbrasion sores - is this likely - I intent to use
vaseline to help out in the this respect.

ANY advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

JJ

From the start, the first thing to think about is simple... You can do it.

Do not think that you might be able to complete it, otherwise you wont
finish. You may get tired. You may get sore. You might think it is not worth
the effort to do it. It is, if only for your own perosnal satisfaction.

When I did my 4km swim last summer, I stoppped every 45 mins and drank. What
I had was the powder Gatorade. It was mixed as per the instructions. When I
stopped, I had about 1 litre of it.

The person following me in a boat was not an experienced life guard or an
experienced swimmer. He did have first aid training, which, in some eyes may
not be enough, but for me it was.

Make sure that you use Sunscreen on all exposed skin areas. I did, and still
had a little red.

Most important.... HAVE FUN. Enjoy it. do it because you want to, not
because you have to, or because other people want you to.

Let us know how it is.

Micheal

Liz D said:

JJ said:

Hi, I have an open sea crossing to complete in April (between to
mediteranean islands - its about 4.5K) . Originally I was part of a big
group doing the swim but now for various reasons its just little old me (and
I have a lot of sponsorship so i pretty much need to get it done).

The issue is, I am no longer going to have coaches to brief me and no longer
got experienced open sea swimmers piloting the boats - I will have a (local)
qualified rescue diver (and first aider) piloting the support boat but he is
not a distance swimmer.

So, could anyone give me :

a) Advice on the swim
b) Advice on instructions to give my boat support ?

I am training pretty hard (in a pool) so the distance should not present a
problem (assuming good weather conditions) but I have only done a couple of
outdoor swims before and they were on calm fresh water lakes.

Once of my biggest worries is consumption of salt water (I seem to swallow a
lot when swimming) - and I can only breathe on one side (I swim front
crawl) - so if the waves are the wrong way - I may swallow even more. Also,
will salt water cause chaffing more than fresh ? I just bought a new wet
suite (although I hope not to need it on the day if its not too cold) and
unless I can persuade the gym here in the UK to let me train in the wet
suite, the 1st time I wear it maybe the on the day of the swim - I was a bit
worried about getting abbrasion sores - is this likely - I intent to use
vaseline to help out in the this respect.

ANY advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

JJ

Hi JJ

You sound like, overall, you are fairly well prepared, a couple of
suggestions I would have are.

1) It's probably too late now but you should really try to develop some
proficiency breathing on both sides. My usual pattern in the pool is
3-stroke bilateral but if neccessary in the sea I switch to one side
only. I find a 4-2-4-2-4-2 ... breathing pattern works well for me, I
can do this on either side.

2) Get in the sea as much as possible between now & the swim. There
are quite a lot of different factors than pool swimming that you really
need to develop some experience of directly, ie waves, navigating, etc.

3) Also do as much training as you can in your wet suit, preferably in
the sea but in the pool if that is all you can manage, so you can get a
feel for it & work out where it is going to chafe you. I can just
about guarantee that it will chafe you somewhere. Round the neck is
the worst area, though I also have trouble with the seams under my
armpits.

There really doesn't seem to be a good solution to the problem of wet
suit chafing. Most people use vaseline though the wet suit
manufacturers stipulate that you should not use vaseline anywhere near
their suits. Anhydrous lanolin (wool fat) is another alternative. I
have seen some people with sticking plaster all over their necks but I
think it is very difficult to find something that will stay put in the
water and not pull uncomfortably at your skin. I find that a rash vest
worn under the wetsuit can help, I can pull it up between the collar &
my neck and it also protects my underarms.

Personnally, unless the water is very cold and/or there is no special
consideration in an event for non-wetsuit swimmers, then I don't wear
my wetsuit in anything over about a 2km swim, as the discomfort from
chafing, and time spent fiddling around with it trying to stop the
chafing, outweighs the warmth and bouyancy advantage of it.

Even without the suit you can still get chafing from the salt water as
your limbs contact against each other as you swim, again I find that
underarms are the worst for me. Anyhydrous lanolin is apparently the
distance swimmers' protection of choice.

4) Although unpleasant, I haven't found that swallowing salt water is a
major concern. Drink plenty of fluid before you start (though most of
this gets deposited back in the water fairly quickly!) and as you have
a support boat with you, you could get them to carry drink bottles for
you to drink from as you need. An eloctrolyte replacement drink is the
best to have, find one that you like the taste of before you go.

5) Do not be doing anything for the "first time" on the day. Make sure
you have tested out all the suits, goggles, drinks, etc you will be
using several times beforehand.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Liz D

Where in the UK are you? Not the best time of year for outdoors
swimming over here but going for a dip in a lake or the sea with your
wetsuit should be ok, maybe with the addition of a rash vest and a
hood. Re chafing I suggest you look at some of the triathlon products
out there. Ironman swim is ~4.2k and I've had no problems with chafing
over that distance - used a product called Bodyglide from my local tri
shop on the neck, underarms and ankles. Don't know if it's based on
anhydrous lanolin or not but it seems to do the job.

Quoted message said:

Where in the UK are you? Not the best time of year for outdoors
swimming over here but going for a dip in a lake or the sea with your
wetsuit should be ok, maybe with the addition of a rash vest and a
hood.

I am in West Yorkshire (between Huddersfield and Wakefield) - about as far
from the sea as you can get in England I should think. I suspect I won't get
a sea swim in before the end of April, but if anyone knows anywhere to do a
lake swim before then, I am prepared to spend an hour in the car.....

Cheers for all the advice so far, will certainly keep you posted as to how I
get on.

JJ

JJ said:

Quoted message said:

Where in the UK are you? Not the best time of year for outdoors
swimming over here but going for a dip in a lake or the sea with your
wetsuit should be ok, maybe with the addition of a rash vest and a
hood.

I am in West Yorkshire (between Huddersfield and Wakefield) - about as far
from the sea as you can get in England I should think. I suspect I won't get
a sea swim in before the end of April, but if anyone knows anywhere to do a
lake swim before then, I am prepared to spend an hour in the car.....

Cheers for all the advice so far, will certainly keep you posted as to how I
get on.

JJ

Lake District? A bit more than an hour but gives you the chance to try
the wetsuit. They have the Hellvellyn triathlon in Ullswater and have
some mates that went training in Coniston last year so presumably
you're allowed to swim there at least some of the time although
obviously you should check before going up.

"Liz D" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

JJ said:

Hi, I have an open sea crossing to complete in April (between to
mediteranean islands - its about 4.5K) . Originally I was part of a
big group doing the swim but now for various reasons its just little
old me (and I have a lot of sponsorship so i pretty much need to get
it done).

The issue is, I am no longer going to have coaches to brief me and no
longer got experienced open sea swimmers piloting the boats - I will
have a (local) qualified rescue diver (and first aider) piloting the
support boat but he is not a distance swimmer.

So, could anyone give me :

a) Advice on the swim
b) Advice on instructions to give my boat support ?

I am training pretty hard (in a pool) so the distance should not
present a problem (assuming good weather conditions) but I have only
done a couple of outdoor swims before and they were on calm fresh
water lakes.

Once of my biggest worries is consumption of salt water (I seem to
swallow a lot when swimming) - and I can only breathe on one side (I
swim front crawl) - so if the waves are the wrong way - I may swallow
even more. Also, will salt water cause chaffing more than fresh ? I
just bought a new wet suite (although I hope not to need it on the
day if its not too cold) and unless I can persuade the gym here in
the UK to let me train in the wet suite, the 1st time I wear it maybe
the on the day of the swim - I was a bit worried about getting
abbrasion sores - is this likely - I intent to use vaseline to help
out in the this respect.

ANY advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

JJ

Hi JJ

You sound like, overall, you are fairly well prepared, a couple of
suggestions I would have are.

1) It's probably too late now but you should really try to develop
some proficiency breathing on both sides. My usual pattern in the
pool is 3-stroke bilateral but if neccessary in the sea I switch to
one side only. I find a 4-2-4-2-4-2 ... breathing pattern works well
for me, I can do this on either side.

2) Get in the sea as much as possible between now & the swim. There
are quite a lot of different factors than pool swimming that you
really need to develop some experience of directly, ie waves,
navigating, etc.

3) Also do as much training as you can in your wet suit, preferably in
the sea but in the pool if that is all you can manage, so you can get
a feel for it & work out where it is going to chafe you. I can just
about guarantee that it will chafe you somewhere. Round the neck is
the worst area, though I also have trouble with the seams under my
armpits.

There really doesn't seem to be a good solution to the problem of wet
suit chafing. Most people use vaseline though the wet suit
manufacturers stipulate that you should not use vaseline anywhere near
their suits. Anhydrous lanolin (wool fat) is another alternative. I
have seen some people with sticking plaster all over their necks but I
think it is very difficult to find something that will stay put in the
water and not pull uncomfortably at your skin. I find that a rash
vest worn under the wetsuit can help, I can pull it up between the
collar & my neck and it also protects my underarms.

Personnally, unless the water is very cold and/or there is no special
consideration in an event for non-wetsuit swimmers, then I don't wear
my wetsuit in anything over about a 2km swim, as the discomfort from
chafing, and time spent fiddling around with it trying to stop the
chafing, outweighs the warmth and bouyancy advantage of it.

Even without the suit you can still get chafing from the salt water as
your limbs contact against each other as you swim, again I find that
underarms are the worst for me. Anyhydrous lanolin is apparently the
distance swimmers' protection of choice.

4) Although unpleasant, I haven't found that swallowing salt water is
a major concern. Drink plenty of fluid before you start (though most
of this gets deposited back in the water fairly quickly!) and as you
have a support boat with you, you could get them to carry drink
bottles for you to drink from as you need. An eloctrolyte replacement
drink is the best to have, find one that you like the taste of before
you go.

5) Do not be doing anything for the "first time" on the day. Make
sure you have tested out all the suits, goggles, drinks, etc you will
be using several times beforehand.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Liz D

Wow, I am glad let someone else answer. Liz gave great advice.
I also try to not use a wetsuit if I don't have to. I did a number of
training swims in the ocean at 3mi all the way up to 4.5 miles (that's
7.5 km !) without flotation aids.
The water here is a bit warmer I am sure (mid 60's fahrenheit) during
spring and summer, so just a cap and goggles is nice. I make sure to
pre-hydrate -- which actually ended up being an issue on race day; I had
to pee really badly and was not able to "let go" while swimming. Just
after the turnaround point I finally took a short break and floated for
a minute.

Incidentally, the water was much rougher that day by the afternoon than
I had practiced in awhile. I took on a lot of salt-water,, and aside
from annoying it didn't bother me. I normally breath every third
alternating sides, and it didn't much matter which side I used mostly
because of how I had been accustomed to swimming in the pool. Working on
a little higher head position with a kick during the breathe cycle would
have helped I think; it is something I am trying to work on currently.

Navigation was not a problem for me, and I had a paddler nearby to also
assist in not veering off course.

All in all it was a very pleasant 1 hour and 21 minute swim, save for
the imperial gallon of saltwater I swallowed <g>

Steph said:

[snip] I make sure to
pre-hydrate -- which actually ended up being an issue on race day; I had
to pee really badly and was not able to "let go" while swimming. Just
after the turnaround point I finally took a short break and floated for
a minute.

I know exactly what you mean, I have that problem as well! I think
there must be some deeply ingrained inhibition in your brain that
prevents you from peeing in a "horizontal" position. I find that I
have to very consciously relax and also to stop kicking for a few
seconds.

Getting rather off topic, I had a similar problem after an operation in
hospital a few years ago. After I came round in the recovery room
(when you are not at your most alert anyway!) I really needed to pee.
They brought me a bed pan but I was too woozy to try & sit on it, so I
tried to go while I was still lying down and was totally unable to do
so. They ended up having to use a catheter.

Liz D

"Liz D" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Steph said:

[snip] I make sure to
pre-hydrate -- which actually ended up being an issue on race day; I

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to pee really badly and was not able to "let go" while swimming. Just
after the turnaround point I finally took a short break and floated

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a minute.

I know exactly what you mean, I have that problem as well! I think
there must be some deeply ingrained inhibition in your brain that
prevents you from peeing in a "horizontal" position. I find that I
have to very consciously relax and also to stop kicking for a few
seconds.

Getting rather off topic, I had a similar problem after an operation in
hospital a few years ago. After I came round in the recovery room
(when you are not at your most alert anyway!) I really needed to pee.
They brought me a bed pan but I was too woozy to try & sit on it, so I
tried to go while I was still lying down and was totally unable to do
so. They ended up having to use a catheter.

Liz D

Eeew. <smile>
Funny the things we post in usenet to be immortalized forever in a full-
text searchable archive.

....just keep swimming...just keep swimming - Dory

Steph said:

Eeew. <smile>
Funny the things we post in usenet to be immortalized forever in a full-
text searchable archive.

...just keep swimming...just keep swimming - Dory

Oops, yes - too much information perhaps (or TMO as my
spelling-challenged daughter refers to it).

Doesn't always do to keep typing as your mind wanders.

Liz D

For chaffing with wetsuit - get "bodyglide" - works fabulously.

You'll DEFINITELY want to get practice in the open water for navigation sake
and getting used to not seeing the stripe along the bottom of the pool!
Bi-lateral breathing is going to be really important too because depending
on what your swim route is, you can site as you breath if there are
landmarks to your left or to your right (shoreline, sun position, boat
support etc)

I sugget staying in the wetsuit regardless as you'll virtually eliminate the
need to kick. If you're familiar with total-immersion, I suggest picking up
the book.

cheers and good luck.

Tav.
www.gymskinz.com
multisports apparel - with attitude.

"JJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I have an open sea crossing to complete in April (between to
mediteranean islands - its about 4.5K) . Originally I was part of a big
group doing the swim but now for various reasons its just little old me

(and

Quoted message said:

I have a lot of sponsorship so i pretty much need to get it done).

The issue is, I am no longer going to have coaches to brief me and no

longer

Quoted message said:

got experienced open sea swimmers piloting the boats - I will have a

(local)

Quoted message said:

qualified rescue diver (and first aider) piloting the support boat but he

is

Quoted message said:

not a distance swimmer.

So, could anyone give me :

a) Advice on the swim
b) Advice on instructions to give my boat support ?

I am training pretty hard (in a pool) so the distance should not present a
problem (assuming good weather conditions) but I have only done a couple

of

Quoted message said:

outdoor swims before and they were on calm fresh water lakes.

Once of my biggest worries is consumption of salt water (I seem to swallow

a

Quoted message said:

lot when swimming) - and I can only breathe on one side (I swim front
crawl) - so if the waves are the wrong way - I may swallow even more.

Also,

Quoted message said:

will salt water cause chaffing more than fresh ? I just bought a new wet
suite (although I hope not to need it on the day if its not too cold) and
unless I can persuade the gym here in the UK to let me train in the wet
suite, the 1st time I wear it maybe the on the day of the swim - I was a

bit

Quoted message said:

worried about getting abbrasion sores - is this likely - I intent to use
vaseline to help out in the this respect.

ANY advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

JJ

Hi JJ - Tav! gave lots of good advice - I'd like a to add a couple
of points.

Tav! said:

For chaffing with wetsuit - get "bodyglide" - works fabulously.

I second Bodyglide - vaseline will eat away at your wesuit.
You can get it at various triathlon shops - where in the UK are
you based ?

I swam in the Med around Croatia with SwimTrek http://www.swimtrek.com/
last May (including a couple of 5k island to island swims) and the water was
cool, but ok without a wetsuit, I think in April it may be cold and I'd
advise on using a the wetsuit - it also helps with bouyancy and generally
makes swimming easier. Salt water does make abbrasions more likely, but
if you are well lubricated this shouldn't be a problem for one 4.5k swim

Quoted message said:

You'll DEFINITELY want to get practice in the open water for navigation sake
and getting used to not seeing the stripe along the bottom of the pool!

In the UK this is probably difficult - most places that
allow open water swimming are pretty cold until May
- there's a good list of venues here:

http://www.tritalk.co.uk/training/openwatermap.php

See also

http://www.river-swimming.co.uk/

Many pools will allow you to practise in a wetsuit - just ask.

If you can try to have a short swim when you get to your destination,
this will invaluable if you didn't get a chance to do any wesuit or
open water practice.

Quoted message said:

Bi-lateral breathing is going to be really important too because depending
on what your swim route is, you can site as you breath if there are
landmarks to your left or to your right (shoreline, sun position, boat
support etc)

Seconded again - bilateral is the way to go - or at the minimum be
comfortable breathing to either side. If you can't manage that then you
will have problems if the wind is in the wrong direction. It may be beneficial
to ask your boat pilot to try to stay to the side you breathe so you can
see them.

Also prepare some electrolyte + energy drinks bottles - don't fill them
full - that way they can float, get the pilot to throw you one every
30mins or so. This should help with keeping you hydrated and also
ease the salty taste in your mouth.

Quoted message said:

I sugget staying in the wetsuit regardless as you'll virtually eliminate the
need to kick. If you're familiar with total-immersion, I suggest picking up
the book.

More good advice.

See also

http://www.trimycoach.com/articles/open_water_swim.htm

Good luck and enjoy yourelf !

Doug