pan juices

Teri said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken properly -
can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
Thanks.

Stir.
There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with liquid,
like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you can add flour
to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a roux, then add liquid
slowly, and stirring constantly until it is mixed smoothly. Do not season it
until it is cooked to the proper consistency, because if you season it to taste
too early and then cook the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:14:42p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?

Quoted message said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If
you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
thicken?). Thanks.
Teri

My experience with this recipe is that the pan juices caramelized and thicken
during the long cooking. I just spoon them over the meat. No need to
thicken.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Teri wrote:

Stir.
There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
liquid,
like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you can add
flour
to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a roux, then add
liquid
slowly, and stirring constantly until it is mixed smoothly. Do not season
it
until it is cooked to the proper consistency, because if you season it to
taste
too early and then cook the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed with
the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain amount
of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if i
didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.
Thanks.
Teri

Quoted message said:

The taste is wonderful if you brown the flour. Put the dry flour in a
cake pan in the oven at about 300, or in a frying pan on the stove on
medium-low heat. It takes a while to get started but once it starts to
brown you have to watch it because it can burn fast. The smell is also
great.

I never have any trouble making gravy, either with a slurry or just
mixing in the flour. It helps to whisk. Bringing the mixture to a light
boil is okay.

Yappa
http://yappadingding.blogspot.com/

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:50:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?

Quoted message said:

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Teri wrote:

Stir.
There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
liquid, like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you
can add flour to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a
roux, then add liquid slowly, and stirring constantly until it is
mixed smoothly. Do not season it until it is cooked to the proper
consistency, because if you season it to taste too early and then cook
the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
with the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a
certain amount of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i
know most people do this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get
it right)

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil?
If you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i
wonder if i didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added
flour. Thanks.
Teri

The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices to
cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix it
in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
and lose the raw taste of the flour.

HTH

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Teri said:

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed with
the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain amount
of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)

Probably about three parts cold water to one part flour. The idea is to mix it
cold and then pop it into the hot liquid so that it won't get lumpy. If you add
flour directly to hot liquid, or if you add a thick slurry, it is likely to be
go lumpy.

Quoted message said:

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if i
didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.

What you should so is to poor off the juices leaving enough fat to mix with the
flour to make the roux. Then return the pan juices.... minus the extra fat....
and add liquid as required. You can use vegetable water, broth, wine....

It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister in law
taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool, add
the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the there
were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to deglace
with wine, and then use the slurry.

Quoted message said:

The taste is wonderful if you brown the flour. Put the dry flour in a
cake pan in the oven at about 300, or in a frying pan on the stove on
medium-low heat. It takes a while to get started but once it starts to
brown you have to watch it because it can burn fast. The smell is also
great.

I never have any trouble making gravy, either with a slurry or just
mixing in the flour. It helps to whisk. Bringing the mixture to a light
boil is okay.

Yep. Either way tends to work just as well. Sometimes I do it one way and
sometimes I do it the other.

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:50:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?

Quoted message said:

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Teri wrote:

Stir.
There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
liquid, like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you
can add flour to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a
roux, then add liquid slowly, and stirring constantly until it is
mixed smoothly. Do not season it until it is cooked to the proper
consistency, because if you season it to taste too early and then cook
the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
with the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a
certain amount of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i
know most people do this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get
it right)

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil?
If you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i
wonder if i didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added
flour. Thanks.
Teri

The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices
to
cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix
it
in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
and lose the raw taste of the flour.

HTH

Very helpful, Thanks.
Teri

Quoted message said:

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
with
the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain
amount
of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)

Probably about three parts cold water to one part flour. The idea is to
mix it
cold and then pop it into the hot liquid so that it won't get lumpy. If
you add
flour directly to hot liquid, or if you add a thick slurry, it is likely
to be
go lumpy.

Quoted message said:

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if
i
didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.

What you should so is to poor off the juices leaving enough fat to mix
with the
flour to make the roux. Then return the pan juices.... minus the extra
fat....
and add liquid as required. You can use vegetable water, broth, wine....

It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister
in law
taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool,
add
the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the
there
were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to
deglace
with wine, and then use the slurry.

I never understood why sometimes it got so lumpy! Thanks!
Teri

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken

properly -

Quoted message said:

can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
Thanks.
Teri

here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux is
equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings.
a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
component
when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the
result
will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
you can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some
stirring to smooth.
3. it's better to cook the roux for several minutes to toast the flour.
(be sure to stir constantly and coat all of the flour with fat)
this removes the raw flour taste and adds considerable flavor depending
on how long you cook the roux. just don't burn it. burnt roux is ruined.
a roux thickened gravy/sauce must be brought to a boil to obtain the
maximum thickening capacity
4. it takes about 2 teaspoons of corn starch to thicken 1 cup of liquid
( a slurry of corn starch and water in a 2:1 ratio works well.)
5. corn starch thickened gravies/sauces aren't quite as durable as flour
gravies. all thickeners lose thickening power the more you cook them.
6. arrowroot is also a popular thickener, IMO there's really no reason to
use it unless you have issues with flour or corn starch

"AC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
large
quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken

properly -

Quoted message said:

can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
Thanks.
Teri

here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux is
equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings.
a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
component
when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the
result
will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
you can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some
stirring to smooth.
3. it's better to cook the roux for several minutes to toast the flour.
(be sure to stir constantly and coat all of the flour with fat)
this removes the raw flour taste and adds considerable flavor depending
on how long you cook the roux. just don't burn it. burnt roux is ruined.
a roux thickened gravy/sauce must be brought to a boil to obtain the
maximum thickening capacity
4. it takes about 2 teaspoons of corn starch to thicken 1 cup of liquid
( a slurry of corn starch and water in a 2:1 ratio works well.)
5. corn starch thickened gravies/sauces aren't quite as durable as flour
gravies. all thickeners lose thickening power the more you cook them.
6. arrowroot is also a popular thickener, IMO there's really no reason to
use it unless you have issues with flour or corn starch

Wow! Sent to 'print'! Thanks!
Teri

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

Quoted message said:

It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister
in law
taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool,
add
the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the
there
were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to
deglace
with wine, and then use the slurry.

I never understood why sometimes it got so lumpy! Thanks!
Teri

There are two reasons for that. One is that it wasn't well mixed when it was
brought to heat, the other is that it went in to hot liquid and and cooked
instantly. It's similar to tempering eggs. If you add the beaten egg to hot
liquid it cooks instantly and hardens into little bits. If you add the hot
liquid to the egg a bit at a time it warms it up gently until the egg is well
incorporated into the liquid.

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (AC) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices?
(If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe
and directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken

properly -

Quoted message said:

can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
Thanks.
Teri

here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings.
a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
component
when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat,
the result
will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
you can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some
stirring to smooth.

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is
the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
doing improperly?

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings.
a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
component
when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat,
the result
will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
you can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some
stirring to smooth.

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result
is
the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
doing improperly?

If I understand these response correctly, according to Dave - the liquid you
add should be cool.
Teri

Quoted message said:

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Alex Rast said:

But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth, occasionally
hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps
against the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in,
but this is insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid
is added, the result is the same, it would seem, every time.
Can anyone speculate what I might be doing improperly?

Do you add the liquid all at once, or a little
at a time (called "tempering", however the process
is not at all like the tempering of chocolate)?

Alex Rast said:

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly.

Add the liquid slowly and stir vigorously. The idea is to keep the flour
spread sparsely through the liquid and not giving it s chance to cook together
in a glob. I have a sort of wire whisk that is great for sauces. It is flat
rather than rounded on the action end.

Quoted message said:

I can declump
it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is
the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
doing improperly?

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex Rast?

Quoted message said:

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (AC) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Teri said:

I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices?
(If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe
and directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
thicken?). Thanks.
Teri

here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings. a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in
the fat component when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if
there is only fat, the result will be smooth. once all of the flour is
well coated and cooked/toasted, you can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly
and it won't clump. it may require some stirring to smooth.

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can
brown the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot
broth, occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can
declump it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the
clumps against the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in,
but this is insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is
added, the result is the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone
speculate what I might be doing improperly?

You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too roux. I
find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool slightly, and
only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while whisking briskly.
Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a boil. That never lumps for
me.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 02 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

Quoted message said:

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex
Rast?

Quoted message said:

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (AC) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Teri wrote:

> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite
> a large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan
> juices? (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would
> appreciate a recipe and directions - i seem to have a problem
> getting gravies to thicken properly - can anyone explain the
> 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?). Thanks.
> Teri
>

here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and
error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of
liquid. 2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other
thickeners (roux is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux
from pan drippings, try to ensure that there is no or very little
water component to the drippings. a gravy seperator works well for
this. if there is water in the fat component when your start the
roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the result will be
smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted, you
can add the liquid/ju [censored] nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some stirring to smooth.

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact,
there seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to
clump that I don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe.
There's never any problem with making it smooth during the roux
stage. And then I can brown the roux as desired. But then, when I
add liquid - usually hot broth, occasionally hot water - invariably,
the roux clumps badly. I can declump it, by stirring for about 1/2
hour, carefully pressing the clumps against the side and spreading
them out, then stirring back in, but this is insanely tedious. It
doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is the same, it
would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be doing
improperly?

You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too
roux. I find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool
slightly, and only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while
whisking briskly. Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a
boil. That never lumps for me.

I find that the pan juices usually have enough fat in them. I mix up some
water and the flour in a jar with a lid...Shake it well to eliminate
lumps and add that to the pan juices.

--
-Alan

Wayne Boatwright said:

The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices to
cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix it
in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
and lose the raw taste of the flour.

Also, if the gravy thickens too much... there is no rule against
adding some extra water to thin it down.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.