GPS suggestions

Ysgrifennodd "Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Tks

Jim R

First question is what do you want a GPS for?????

Many people rave about the E-Trex and similar.

I wanted one that i could swap info with my PC mapping software. Plus one
that came with a cable in the price. Some look like a bargain, but the cable
then costs a small fortune.

Some will tell you that you can get the cable next to nowt on e-bay-gum, but
to me that's another uncertainty i dont want.You may save a few quid, but
the risk of losing that on ebaygum. is also real...

I got my E-Trek Venture for £114 from
http://www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk , cheapest i could find, but
strangely, a year later, stilll the same price?!

I find the Venture spot on for recording my route, and for following a
route. But, i use it's navigational capabilities in a minimal fashion.

Usually, with the girlfirend. She has the GPS and feels she is navigating to
a degree when our position gets off a bit. It's her introduction to nav, and
we're only on forest tracks.

The Venture is very easy to use, but as a stand alone unit (i,e, without
mapping software, I cannot comment).

Hwyl.

T Dave.

--

What hills have i been up recently?
www.walkeryri.org.uk

Jim Roberts said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Tks

Jim R

This has been covered many times. If you look in the google news
archive you may find something useful.

I got a Sportrak, and I'm farily happy with it - but then, the ability
to float was a major point for me, as I race dinghies. It isn't the
smallest, and it doesn't have any maps.

Andy

"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Don't bother! Save your money. Learn to read a map;-)

Jesus! What is the World coming too!

JS

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
John Smith <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Don't bother! Save your money. Learn to read a map;-)

Maps don't do a very good job of recording where you went, or how fast.
Get with the program, we're not in 20th Century any more!!

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

John Smith said:

Don't bother! Save your money. Learn to read a map;-)

Quoted message said:

Jesus! What is the World coming too!

It's called progress. You could have written that on a perfectly good piece
of paper, put it in an envelope and added a stamp, but no, you chose to
waste your money on a complicated piece of modern technology, just to write
a few words! Daft! ;-)

Paul

"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

But when is the OP going to answer the questions ? Or is he from
Trollsburough ?

--
"Beannachd leibh"

Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:39:54 -0000, "John Smith" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Don't bother! Save your money. Learn to read a map;-)

Jesus! What is the World coming too!

JS

Not sure if Jesus knows about GPS ....after all he wandered in the
wilderness for 40 days ...

Yes, its an old thread, but good manners cost nowt.

Certainly DO learn to read a map (AND use a compass !). But a gps has
it's uses, especially in poor visibility, and as an extra piece of
information to confirm the map-reading or suggest the possibility of a
mistake.

I use mine for a lot more - speed, track and distance recording,
marking where & when I took a photo, etc.

Easy to use ? Yes. Turn it on, it'll tell you where you are more or
less precisely. If you want more than that, you need to do a bit of
learning. Rather like a digital camera - simple stuff is simple,
complicated stuff is complicated and demands an understanding of the
underlying principles.

To get the best out of a gps, you must have some software on your PC,
too. Mostly cheap or free. Do some reading/googling, eg memory Map,
Ozi Explorer.

HTH.

The message <[email hidden]>
from Jim Hutton <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Easy to use ? Yes. Turn it on, it'll tell you where you are more or
less precisely.

But first you need to set it up correctly. Picking the wrong datum is
(or at least was) a frequent new user error.

--
Roger Chapman

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how picky some
folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and compasses. Have been
using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of the uk and other places. My
main use of a gps system will be to record walks and to be able to show boys
from my school exactly where they are in relation to the countryside. I
would also like to map contours around the local area. No more childish
comments please. The boys from the school are following the thread.
"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Tks

Jim R

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how picky some
folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and compasses. Have been
using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of the uk and other places. My
main use of a gps system will be to record walks and to be able to show boys
from my school exactly where they are in relation to the countryside. I
would also like to map contours around the local area. No more childish
comments please. The boys from the school are following the thread.
"Jim Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased to hear
suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to use?

Tks

Jim R

Andy Champ said:

I got a Sportrak, and I'm farily happy with it - but then, the ability
to float was a major point for me, as I race dinghies.

Who generally wins, you or the dinghies?

:-)

Colin

Jim Roberts said:

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how
picky some folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and
compasses. Have been using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of
the uk and other places. My main use of a gps system will be to
record walks and to be able to show boys from my school exactly where
they are in relation to the countryside. I would also like to map
contours around the local area. No more childish comments please. The
boys from the school are following the thread.

You will struggle to get a mapping GPS unit which is usable for £150, even
if you use the public domain sources of mapping software, rather than
proprietry maps. So that rules out those, and we're looking at non-mapping
units, and external maps (paper or computer based).

A basic hand-held unit with a computer interface will do the job of
recording your tracks; basic Yellow Etrex for example, or similar units from
Magellan.
Beware that both Garmin and Magellan make some entry models which do not
support a computer interface cable, avoid these models !!
With a computer cable, you should be under £120, and possibly under £100 if
you shop around.
If you want slightly better altitude data (provided you research how it
works, and reset the calibration), then Garmin models with their barometric
altitude meter work very well (eg: Geko 301 or Etrex Summit *).

Allow some budget for NiMH rechargeable batteries for the GPS, and a charger
if you don't have one.

And for software on the computer to interpret recordings:

If you can get OS maps of the area on a computer for a reduced sum, via
educational prices, then do so with whichever supplier offers the deal.
If not, then buy whichever of Tracklogs, MemoryMap or Anquet seems to do
what you require for the areas you are interested in. I think all offer a
free download of a small area to try out their software.

Get Google Earth - its free and brilliant, particularly with GPS tracks
drawn over the landscape to illustrate where you have been. Consider paying
the $20 (or thereabouts) for the GPS access, though if you have a Garmin GPS
unit with Garmin's Mapsource product to manage tracks/routes/waypoints, the
current version has an "export to Google Earth" which works with the free
version of Google Earth.

(* check that the summit has had its hardware updated - the basic Yellow
Etrex was updated about a year ago, and its a significant improvement, if
the Etrex Summit hasn't been changed, go for the Geko instead).

"Jim Roberts"

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone. This is probably an old thread but I would be pleased
to hear suggestions regarding hand held GPS's
I have around £150 to spend. Another question, how easy are they to
use? Tks

Jim R

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Roberts
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how picky some
folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and compasses. Have been
using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of the uk and other places. My
main use of a gps system will be to record walks and to be able to show boys
from my school exactly where they are in relation to the countryside.

Any of the basic models will be able to do this. I currently use a
Garmin Geko 201 and have an older basic eTrex (yellow). The latest
version of the basic eTrex (ver 3 and above software) has very similar
capabilities to the Geko. The eTrex has a longer battery life as it uses
AAs compared to the Geko's AAAs.

The only thing I would say you should definitely avoid is any unit that
does not have a computer interface to get at the data - Geko 101,
Magellan eXplorist 100, 200 & 300.

With the cheaper units you have to buy the cable separately and the
official manufacturer's cables tend to be pricey. Garmin compatible
cables can be had at good prices from Lynks.

http://www.lynks.co.uk/cables.html

Quoted message said:

I
would also like to map contours around the local area.

Unfortunately you will probably find that the vertical accuracy is
insufficient for making contour maps. Vertical accuracy is generally of
the order of 1.5 times the horizontal. Horizontal accuracy in ideal
conditions is ~7m 95% of the time though receivers tend to give a more
optimistic estimate. Obscure the sky (your body, buildings, terrain) and
that will get worse.

Ten metres horizontal error might be barely noticeable but ten vertical
metres sticks out like a sore thumb!

--

Dominic Sexton

Nigel Cliffe said:

Get Google Earth - its free and brilliant, particularly with GPS tracks
drawn over the landscape to illustrate where you have been. Consider paying
the $20 (or thereabouts) for the GPS access, though if you have a Garmin GPS
unit with Garmin's Mapsource product to manage tracks/routes/waypoints, the
current version has an "export to Google Earth" which works with the free
version of Google Earth.

Although the subscription to Google Earth may have other advantages,
I wouldn't bother for the GPS access alone. All it adds is the ability
to import a track directly from the GPS, but the free version already
has the ability to import a track in .gpx format. Presumably this
is also what Mapsource is doing.

You can easily create the .gpx format track by converting from any one
of several popular formats - Garmin and Magellan. Gpsbabel will do the
conversion and in some cases the download from the GPS, too (in fact,
Google Earth uses Gpsbabel in the subscription version).

Memory Map will also export a .gpx file which can be used by Goggle
Earth. I have found some combinations which don't work due to
differences between versions of the .gpx format, but these, again,
can be fixed by using Gpsbabel to clean it up.

-adrian

Colin MacDonald said:

Andy Champ said:

I got a Sportrak, and I'm farily happy with it - but then, the ability
to float was a major point for me, as I race dinghies.

Who generally wins, you or the dinghies?

:-)

Colin

Well last weekend it was the wind that won. I gave up, 'cos it was too
darn cold. But not until after I'd knocked a lump off the newest boat
on the lake!

BTW I just pulled off a track I recorded in Tenerife last week. I can't
see any errors over about 20m between 2 trips down the same road 5 days
apart that I can't put down to missing trackpoints. Interestingly this
is far less error than I've seen in the past when comparing my track to
the OS maps.

Andy

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Roberts
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how picky some
folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and compasses. Have been
using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of the uk and other places. My
main use of a gps system will be to record walks and to be able to show boys
from my school exactly where they are in relation to the countryside.

Any of the basic models will be able to do this. I currently use a
Garmin Geko 201 and have an older basic eTrex (yellow). The latest
version of the basic eTrex (ver 3 and above software) has very similar
capabilities to the Geko. The eTrex has a longer battery life as it
uses AAs compared to the Geko's AAAs.

The only thing I would say you should definitely avoid is any unit that
does not have a computer interface to get at the data - Geko 101,
Magellan eXplorist 100, 200 & 300.

With the cheaper units you have to buy the cable separately and the
official manufacturer's cables tend to be pricey. Garmin compatible
cables can be had at good prices from Lynks.

http://www.lynks.co.uk/cables.html

Quoted message said:

I
would also like to map contours around the local area.

Unfortunately you will probably find that the vertical accuracy is
insufficient for making contour maps. Vertical accuracy is generally of
the order of 1.5 times the horizontal. Horizontal accuracy in ideal
conditions is ~7m 95% of the time though receivers tend to give a more
optimistic estimate. Obscure the sky (your body, buildings, terrain)
and that will get worse.

Actually my 60c running with WAAS enabled, and when I can actually get
some correction data from PRN33 (ESTB), is kicking out height data
within 2m of reality. That's still a much larger %age error relative to
height changes than the horizontal error is, of course. 1Km square
fields are easy to find .. 1Km height deltas require considerable
searching for.

The real problem getting contour data is collecting enough on a sensible
grid to be able to do anything with it. The SRTM digital elevation data
(as used for SMC contour maps) is OK, but points are ~90m*60m apart, and
there are still 1.4 million of them per 'square degree'.

After walking for 18 months, 2 hours a day average, I've logged about
half a million GPS trackpoints .. 1/3rd of what NASA collected in a few
minutes. OK, mine are 10m apart, but they're distributed along
roads/paths, not in a nice rectangular grid, and I still haven't figured
if/how they can be used to improve the detail on the contour maps
(compared to the OS 1:25 contours, the ones derived from NASA data look
like they've been thorough a major 'smoothing' operation, since sampling
on a wide grid like that is going to miss most of the detailed high/low
points).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Nigel Cliffe said:

Jim Roberts said:

Hi Guys.. Thanks for some of the suggestions. Didn't realise how
picky some folk could be. I am well versed in the use of maps and
compasses. Have been using them for the past 35yrs on the hills of
the uk and other places. My main use of a gps system will be to
record walks and to be able to show boys from my school exactly where
they are in relation to the countryside. I would also like to map
contours around the local area. No more childish comments please. The
boys from the school are following the thread.

You will struggle to get a mapping GPS unit which is usable for £150, even
if you use the public domain sources of mapping software, rather than
proprietry maps. So that rules out those, and we're looking at non-mapping
units, and external maps (paper or computer based).

(snip)

You can pick up a mapping GPS unit for under £150 - the Etrex Legend is
£136.85 (inc delivery) from www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk. This
maps, has the PC cable included in the price, and can use the contour
files from the smc.org.uk website. I've also got one myself :-)

As for displaying the information: as several people have said, you can
use several free programmes to convert files and show them on google
earth, but I would seriously look at getting one of the OS map
programmes (memory map, anquet, tracklogs, etc). If you only want the
maps of your local area, and at 1:50000, then this shouldn't be too
expensive; Anquet regions are ~£30, for example.

Geoff

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:08:28 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

But first you need to set it up correctly. Picking the wrong datum is
(or at least was) a frequent new user error.

Ive just bought a new etrex legend not got it yet but what would be
the correct datum for the uk is it OSGB
--
Gwyn. *spamtrap* remove rem if replying
gwyndewey.btinternetrem.com

The message <[email hidden]>
from Gwyn <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:08:28 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But first you need to set it up correctly. Picking the wrong datum is
(or at least was) a frequent new user error.

Quoted message said:

Ive just bought a new etrex legend not got it yet but what would be
the correct datum for the uk is it OSGB

Seems this is no longer a problem either with new Garmins or updated
software in old units. You can no longer set the map datum directly. Set
position format as British Grid and you will get the correct map datum.

With my old Summit ISTR I originally had to set position format to
British Grid and Map Datum to ord srvy GB separately but on checking I
find they are now linked together and it is no longer possible to set
British Grid together with WSG 84.

No idea how other makers approach the problem.

--
Roger Chapman