Discovery in disarray.... ?

Disco has only one problem, and it's the same problem that T-Mobile has had, and a lot of other teams currently have. There is no clear leader right now, and it appears that team management is still looking for someone to emerge, and probably won't know until well into the spring classics, if even then.

Hincapie can't quite seem to shake off his status as super domestique and one day racer. And he's definitely on the far side of his career.

Popo and Danielson don't appear to have the inner toughness or the race maturity and judgment needed of a leader. Commanding a top team, against the top teams in the world, in a three week stage race, is not an easy thing to do. Not just anyone can hold that position. Note Floyd's performance in the TofC - he's looking a lot more mature these days, and looking like the leader of Phonak rather than just the guy out front. A pity Postal/Disco didn't treat him better... they'd be sitting pretty right now.

It's not so much that Disco is 'in disarray', it's that they were so tightly led in the past, that anything less than ironclad leadership in their team will appear to be disorganization. Their current 'disarray' looks like a lot of other team's standard operating procedure.

i have to laugh that disco tried to get floyd back and he turned them down. and apparently they were trying to pick up a bunch of other big timers, but didn't want vino, who will probably get a higher placing at the tour than any disco rider.

there was stage at the tour this year when the entire disco team cracked and lance was left alone. it will be funny to see the american television coverage of disco doing the same this year.

and despite all the talk of disco, i think the season will be very interesting on many fronts. boonen petacchi mcewen in the one days and with last years winners of the tour and vuelta out of commission, the GC shoudl be more open, which means more exciting to watch.

moviekindoflife said:

and apparently they were trying to pick up a bunch of other big timers, but didn't want vino, who will probably get a higher placing at the tour than any disco rider.

They did not want Vino because they would be looking, for the price they would be paying for Vino, for somebody who could win the TdF and not just place in the Top 5 or Top 10 or even on the podium (non-first-tep). Bruyneel's view is that Vino cannot win the TdF, and that is why they were not willing to pay top dollar for Vino. 😉

musette said:

They did not want Vino because they would be looking, for the price they would be paying for Vino, for somebody who could win the TdF and not just place in the Top 5 or Top 10 or even on the podium (non-first-tep). Bruyneel's view is that Vino cannot win the TdF, and that is why they were not willing to pay top dollar for Vino. 😉

I though it was the arrogance that they could get Basso.... when Basso had no intentions of even talking to Disco Bruyneel was left with nothing..... Vino had already agreed to join Liberty........which proves the point that Discovery are in disarray.

JohnO said:

Disco has only one problem, and it's the same problem that T-Mobile has had, and a lot of other teams currently have. There is no clear leader right now, and it appears that team management is still looking for someone to emerge, and probably won't know until well into the spring classics, if even then.

Hincapie can't quite seem to shake off his status as super domestique and one day racer. And he's definitely on the far side of his career.

Popo and Danielson don't appear to have the inner toughness or the race maturity and judgment needed of a leader. Commanding a top team, against the top teams in the world, in a three week stage race, is not an easy thing to do. Not just anyone can hold that position. Note Floyd's performance in the TofC - he's looking a lot more mature these days, and looking like the leader of Phonak rather than just the guy out front. A pity Postal/Disco didn't treat him better... they'd be sitting pretty right now.

It's not so much that Disco is 'in disarray', it's that they were so tightly led in the past, that anything less than ironclad leadership in their team will appear to be disorganization. Their current 'disarray' looks like a lot of other team's standard operating procedure.

Fair points that you raise.

Almost afraid to get in on this one but...

I don't think anyone can argue that the Disco post LA era would have to bring a slightly different organizational format. It's not like they could just say, "Who can we get that will win the Tour for us next year?"

I'm not saying that Disco did nothing else as a team (classics, smaller stage races, other Grand tours - obviously Disco had success with Salvoldelli in the Giro) but their focus with LA at the tiller was always winning the Tour. If that's the goal again, then yes, they nead one clear leader that the others will happily be dometiques for.

But I don't think a cycling team necessarily needs to have that organizational format (one sole leader) if they have other goals. Can't a team have several key players in it - chosen to lead specific races based upon their individual abilities? Look at CSC. While Basso is clearly their best hope for the TDF, they put Julich up as leader for the Tour of California and the team will get behind him to defend his title at Paris-Nice too.

Disco is bound to have some growing pains as current members try to prove they have the strength to lead the ship but I think they'll figure it out before we get to far into the season.

But if Disco is still trying to figure out who is going to captain at specific races during those races, then (IMHO) they're asking for trouble. The best they can hope to do is place well in races in the team standings. Phonak's 2005 TDF might be an example of this. Perhaps Landis' standing could have been even better if Botero and Perero weren't also thinking about overall standing in that race.

Time will tell.

Many very successful teams have had multiple leaders - including multiple leaders with the same objectives.
Take ONCE in the 1990's : Jalabert and Zulle destroyed everything in their midst
in one day, stage races, and the Vuelta (they practically swapped titles between them during the mid-1990's).

In respect of DC : they focussed exclusively on the TDF for the past 8 years : to the practical exemption of everything else.
Now they need to decide what the objective is for the season.
Only then can they decide what rider goes for which objective.

So in a sense there is some confusion because I haven't read about their objectives for the season.
They normally issue statements of intent prior to the start of the season.

If I were DS at DC -- and there are probably good reasons that I am not -- I would take a year off from the TdF and put all my chips on getting Paolo another Giro victory. Now obviously, Disco can't skip the Tour, but they can transfer a bunch of their top flight climbing and TT talent over to the Giro.

Why do this?
1. They have a clear leader for the Giro who is capable of winning the race in Paolo.
2. They do not have a clear leader for the TdF.
3. The Giro has a 38km TTT that Disco could probably win with Eki, Paolo, Popo, etc. focusing on the Giro. The Tour does not have a TTT this year.
4. Granted, the Giro route is not ideal for Paolo. Nonetheless, with Danielson, Azevedo, Rubiera, Beltran, Paolo would have excellent support in the mountains. There is a 50 km TT in the middle of the Giro, and the 11km TT up Ghisallo isn't impossibly steep. In addition, some stages have long downhill finishes, ideal for Paolo.
5. Win no clear prospect for the podium at the Tour, Disco could benefit from taking it easy in France and giving Popo another opportunity to learn about the race.
6. While there will be excellent talent at the Giro this year, most will be focusing on the Tour. A team dedicated to winning the Giro could be a big advantage.
7. Paolo is a 2 time winner and deserves the support.

Nowadays I think you have to have multiple leaders. Gone are the days of riding all the grand tours to win. What with the big names focusing exclusively on one grand tour at the expense (most likely not even riding in) the others. Because if they want a shot of winning the Giro or the Vuelta or the Tour, they've got to peak at the right time. A body just can't maintain peak performance that long. So DC having three grand tour leaders, gearing their schedules to peak at just the right times, makes perfect sense to me.

The only problem is, it doesn't seem like DC is doing this. Why haven't they gone ahead and stated who will ride each race? In the past they made no secret of their plans. It's got to be because they just don't know what they've got. I think they were really expecting to sign a big name in the off season and it just fell through. Now they've got a power vacuum and aren't sure who, if anyone, is going to fill it. I don't think it's "disarray" but it certainly isn't what we've come to expect from them.

tcklyde said:

If I were DS at DC -- and there are probably good reasons that I am not -- I would take a year off from the TdF and put all my chips on getting Paolo another Giro victory. Now obviously, Disco can't skip the Tour, but they can transfer a bunch of their top flight climbing and TT talent over to the Giro.

Why do this?
1. They have a clear leader for the Giro who is capable of winning the race in Paolo.
2. They do not have a clear leader for the TdF.
3. The Giro has a 38km TTT that Disco could probably win with Eki, Paolo, Popo, etc. focusing on the Giro. The Tour does not have a TTT this year.
4. Granted, the Giro route is not ideal for Paolo. Nonetheless, with Danielson, Azevedo, Rubiera, Beltran, Paolo would have excellent support in the mountains. There is a 50 km TT in the middle of the Giro, and the 11km TT up Ghisallo isn't impossibly steep. In addition, some stages have long downhill finishes, ideal for Paolo.
5. Win no clear prospect for the podium at the Tour, Disco could benefit from taking it easy in France and giving Popo another opportunity to learn about the race.
6. While there will be excellent talent at the Giro this year, most will be focusing on the Tour. A team dedicated to winning the Giro could be a big advantage.
7. Paolo is a 2 time winner and deserves the support.

I like it. The only wrinkle in this is that Falco might be a significant tour contender too in their opinions and they might want to give him a shot at that. Now, why they aren't just saying that up front is beyond me. The Hincapie thing is a joke literally started by Lance after George won at Pla D'Adet, and nobody thinks Popo has a chance yet. Why they are talking about multiple leaders when they clearly only have one person able to truly lead a GT team... who is Salvodelli of course.

That aside, I think my fellow Portlander makes excellent points and I firmly believe Falco can win this Giro, steep hills or not. One important thing to remember about Basso who might be argued to be his biggest competition is that if anything goes wrong at the Giro, any illness or injury that even hints at ruining his showdown with Ullrich in July, and he will stand down. He simply has to. There is no way Basso can jeopardize a chance at a TDF victory this year by laying it on the table to win the Giro. If there is hardship, he won't fight to the finish.

That just leaves pure climbers and I think Salvodelli can beat them as Tcklyde lays out.

moviekindoflife said:

i have to laugh that disco tried to get floyd back and he turned them down. and apparently they were trying to pick up a bunch of other big timers, but didn't want vino, who will probably get a higher placing at the tour than any disco rider.

there was stage at the tour this year when the entire disco team cracked and lance was left alone. it will be funny to see the american television coverage of disco doing the same this year.

and despite all the talk of disco, i think the season will be very interesting on many fronts. boonen petacchi mcewen in the one days and with last years winners of the tour and vuelta out of commission, the GC shoudl be more open, which means more exciting to watch.

With Armstrong out, it does already seem to be a more exciting year. Interviews in cycle sport and cyclingews.com indicate that Landis, Basso, and Ullrich are all planning to ride the Giro this year. Lance is gone, and already the start list in the Grand Tours looks more interesting.

A lot of TdF GC contenders seem to be headed to Georgia again as well.

As the original poster states, I do think that Bruyneel has a serious problem on his hands this year. Outside of Salvoldelli he has a squad of super-domestiques (like Eki) and one day racers (Hoste, Hammond, Hincapie) and yet somehow, he's supposed to find a TdF GC contender out of the bunch, without upsetting any of them.

Good luck, buddy!

[font=Comic Sans MS]Nobody is talking about who determines the season's goals ........ The question is .."What do the sponsors want?" Is it to Disco's benifit having an American lead the TDF? Is the Giro important for Discovery?
The fact is Lance is more important to the American market then all the American riders now and before...... He can ride in the team car and get more press then Landis winning the TDF. I bet Robin Williams got more press last year then Landis/Julich/Hincapie got in America. No one in America cares about Landis...... Except a few dedicated fans and his family. We are not a cycling country. I wish it was different.

A year ago I was chatting with a few mountain bike guys and Lemonds name came up..... They did not have a clue what he did ..... One actually had a Lemond road bike. That is the state of cycling in America.
I bet Landis considered going to Disco more then what is being said here. A successful racing season on a Trek would lead to more money in the long run .....Plus the press he would recieve in America..... But Disco probably could not tell him he was going to be the TDF leader. Hincapie might the guy that holds the team together and he deserves some recognition for his past loyalty. Hincapie and Eki have more experience with a TDF winning team then all the riders in Europe added up.
Eki is there for a reason. He is to Disco what Zabel is to t-mobile. Or was to T-Mobile. I like Jan, but I have a feeling he is not even going to be a contender this year. I have a feeling he is going to go down in history as the biggest mistake in cycling history.
Disco may ot be the team they once were..... but to say they are in disarray ..... [/font]Bruyneel has done something in the last 7 years that no director has ever done in a lifetime..... [font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]

Further evidence that the Discovery team is imploding was the revelation today during the Paris-Nice that Popovitch has been sick all winter and has only just started training again... his performance looked like it as well.... his season could be over.....

whiteboytrash said:

Further evidence that the Discovery team is imploding was the revelation today during the Paris-Nice that Popovitch has been sick all winter and has only just started training again... his performance looked like it as well.... his season could be over.....

His season could be over? Are you kidding? Yeah, not good that he was sick, but finishing 78th out of 168 in 5km prologue is hardly the sign of a season coming to an end.

Discovery isn't "imploding" because Tom Danielson can't keep his mouth shut and because they won't win the Tour this year. No one thinks they'll repeat last year. So What?

tcklyde said:

His season could be over? Are you kidding? Yeah, not good that he was sick, but finishing 78th out of 168 in 5km prologue is hardly the sign of a season coming to an end.

Discovery isn't "imploding" because Tom Danielson can't keep his mouth shut and because they won't win the Tour this year. No one thinks they'll repeat last year. So What?

Popovych did a lot better than the Disco team leader last year at Paris Nice, recall Lance finished what 149th or something hilarious like that.
Too bad Popo has been sick.
Maybe thats why Tommy D has been whining so much. "No, Joahn, I want to ride the Giro and the Tour pleeeeez!!"
He and David Millar should go on a reality TV show to see who can whine the most.

[font=Verdana][font=Verdana]Be hard leading from the front if he's spending the next 3 months catching up.... also a problem if he's English is not so good.... don't expect much from him at the Tour.... they might even drop him and put him into the Giro squad to help Danielson finish 12th..... Funny that you don't read about the sickness on the Paceline.com.... obviously they tried to keep it a secret..... he looked very slow…. Armstrong had 6 Tour wins behind him when he rocked up to Paris-Nice fat and unwell last year…. Popo doesn’t have that pedigree or muscle memory to call upon like Armstrong did…. [/font]
[/font]

tcklyde said:

His season could be over? Are you kidding? Yeah, not good that he was sick, but finishing 78th out of 168 in 5km prologue is hardly the sign of a season coming to an end.

Discovery isn't "imploding" because Tom Danielson can't keep his mouth shut and because they won't win the Tour this year. No one thinks they'll repeat last year. So What?

whiteboytrash said:

Further evidence that the Discovery team is imploding was the revelation today during the Paris-Nice that Popovitch has been sick all winter and has only just started training again... his performance looked like it as well.... his season could be over.....

Sorry, could you let us know what was said "during the Paris-Nice", and in what context? What illness does Popovych have?

paceline says this:

"This time their hopes rest with Yarolslav Popovych, Jose Azevedo and Vladimir Gusev, and the team does have to get results or at least race well to achieve the same end for the sponsor. Gusev was their fastest rider today, in 16th place, so he starts the real race tomorrow as their protected leader, with everything to go for on a course that more than suits the stockily-built Russian."

You see the paceline will only tell you what they want you to know.... if you want the story behind the story then go no further than upstanding gent Sean Kelly and man in the know......He told EuroSport viewers that Commrade Popovych has battled illness all winter and has only just overcome it and was just back in training.... his prolouge performance confirmed this and looking at him on the TV it looked like he had been enjoying one to many Italian pizza's that he loves so much...... good rider but can't back it up this year now.... he should look towards 2007..... there is no way you can argue with Sean Kelly.... he is a man of few words but when speaks the truth comes out... he would have contacts with every team.... bad luck but further confirms my point: Discovery are in disarray.

musette said:

Sorry, could you let us know what was said "during the Paris-Nice", and in what context? What illness does Popovych have?

paceline says this:

"This time their hopes rest with Yarolslav Popovych, Jose Azevedo and Vladimir Gusev, and the team does have to get results or at least race well to achieve the same end for the sponsor. Gusev was their fastest rider today, in 16th place, so he starts the real race tomorrow as their protected leader, with everything to go for on a course that more than suits the stockily-built Russian."

I agree. 😄

whiteboytrash said:

You see the paceline will only tell you what they want you to know.... if you want the story behind the story then go no further than upstanding gent Sean Kelly and man in the know......He told EuroSport viewers that Commrade Popovych has battled illness all winter and has only just overcome it and was just back in training.... his prolouge performance confirmed this and looking at him on the TV it looked like he had been enjoying one to many Italian pizza's that he loves so much...... good rider but can't back it up this year now.... he should look towards 2007..... there is no way you can argue with Sean Kelly.... he is a man of few words but when speaks the truth comes out... he would have contacts with every team.... bad luck but further confirms my point: Discovery are in disarray.

whiteboytrash said:

You see the paceline will only tell you what they want you to know.... if you want the story behind the story then go no further than upstanding gent Sean Kelly and man in the know......He told EuroSport viewers that Commrade Popovych has battled illness all winter and has only just overcome it and was just back in training.... his prolouge performance confirmed this and looking at him on the TV it looked like he had been enjoying one to many Italian pizza's that he loves so much...... good rider but can't back it up this year now.... he should look towards 2007..... there is no way you can argue with Sean Kelly.... he is a man of few words but when speaks the truth comes out... he would have contacts with every team.... bad luck but further confirms my point: Discovery are in disarray.

Aye, Sean was pretty explicit about Popovych.

You'd better explain to Musette who Sean Kelly is - remember she exists only in parallel universe from 1999 called DC/USPS.