Reflectors and the Law

Mark Thompson said:

In a thinly disguised attempt to improve my ratio of on to off topic
posts:

Both my bikes are missing reflectors. As it's a legal requirement to
have them,

After lighting up time, yes, legally required on bike. From what I recall,
its front, rear, and pedal reflectors unless your bike pre-dates
1980-something and its just rear reflector.

Quoted message said:

is it also a legal requirement that the bike shops that
sold me the bikes include reflectors?

A new complete bike must have an approved set of reflectors. Which are
slightly wider than the legally required set after lighting up time; ie.
needing wheel reflectors.

Quoted message said:

To complicate matters, the
bikes were second hand. Guessing the law only covers new bikes?

Correct. The sale regulations cover new bikes. The use regulations
(lighting & reflectors) cover all bikes, but that is down to the
owner/rider.

Try here for more:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3817

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

The average PC Plod doesn't give a damn, or indeed probably know about
the law concerning reflectors. Clever, devious Barristers of insurance
companies do. If there is any way than can reduce their liability they
will in a claim.

Nigel Cliffe said:

A new complete bike must have an approved set of reflectors.

The "complete" bit is a handy get out clause for those bikes that are sold
without pedals. You can select your own reflectorless clipless pedals to be
fitted to them and the shop stays within the law.

Graeme

Graeme Dods said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

A new complete bike must have an approved set of reflectors.

The "complete" bit is a handy get out clause for those bikes that are sold
without pedals. You can select your own reflectorless clipless pedals to be
fitted to them and the shop stays within the law.

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
|/ \|

Quoted message said:

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

But only in daylight?

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

No, it's illegal to sell a new bike complete with pedals if the pedals don't
have reflectors. It's not illegal to ride one without pedal reflectors, day
or night

Quoted message said:

It's not illegal to ride one without pedal reflectors, day or night

Have you got a reference for that? It contradicts wot someone else in the
thread said.

Budstaff said:

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

No, it's illegal to sell a new bike complete with pedals if the
pedals don't have reflectors. It's not illegal to ride one without
pedal reflectors, day or night

I believe you are wrong. I suggest you read the Road Vehicle Lighting
Regulations, especially regulation 18. there is an exemption if your
bike is old enough, but in general it IS illegal to ride without pedal
reflectors between sunset and sunrise. If you believe some later law
supersedes this, perhaps you would be so good as to quote it (or at
least reference it).

Tell you what, I'll even save you the bother of finding the
regulations:

"every vehicle of a class specified in a Table in Schedule 1 shall be
fitted with lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices which-
(a) are of a type specified in column 1 of that Table, and
(b) comply with the relevant installation, alignment and
performance requirements set out in the Schedule or Part of a Schedule
shown against that type in column 2 of that Table."

Table 3 of schedule 1, in case you are wondering, is the requirements
for pedal cycles, and contains the requirement:

"Pedal retro reflector Schedule 20: Part I"

Schedule 20 contains the requirements:

1. Number: Two reflectors on each pedal

2. Position- (a) Longitudinal:
On the leading edge and the trailing edge of each pedal
(b) Lateral:
No requirement
(c) Vertical:
No requirement

3. Angles of visibility:
Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is
plainly visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of
each pedal is plainly visible to the rear

4. Markings: A British Standard mark

5. Size of reflecting area:
No requirement

6. Colour: Amber

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Budstaff said:

No, it's illegal to sell a new bike complete with pedals if the pedals
don't have reflectors. It's not illegal to ride one without pedal
reflectors, day or night

It /is/ required to have pedal reflectors at night on a cycle

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_25.htm#nsch20

Mike

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Ian Smith
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Budstaff said:

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

No, it's illegal to sell a new bike complete with pedals if the
pedals don't have reflectors. It's not illegal to ride one without
pedal reflectors, day or night

I believe you are wrong. I suggest you read the Road Vehicle Lighting
Regulations, especially regulation 18. there is an exemption if your
bike is old enough, but in general it IS illegal to ride without pedal
reflectors between sunset and sunrise. If you believe some later law
supersedes this, perhaps you would be so good as to quote it (or at
least reference it).

I've often found, when driving a motor vehicle, that pedal reflectors
are the most clearly visible things on a bike (especially a bike ridden
without lights). Riding without them seems just a little bit silly?

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've often found, when driving a motor vehicle, that pedal reflectors
are the most clearly visible things on a bike (especially a bike ridden
without lights). Riding without them seems just a little bit silly?

The important thing here is "especially a bike ridden without lights". I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent. Which is fortunate, since double-sided SPDs can't
easily have them.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've often found, when driving a motor vehicle, that pedal reflectors
are the most clearly visible things on a bike (especially a bike ridden
without lights). Riding without them seems just a little bit silly?

The important thing here is "especially a bike ridden without lights". I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent.

I dunno about that. There's something about the up-down motion of
pedal-reflectors that make them stand out much more than the
lights.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
". . . if it prosper, none dare call it treason"

Quoted message said:

I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent.

For traffic pointing their headlights directly at you, they're easily
brighter than all but the brightest of bike lights. Useless for drivers
about to pull out of junctions tho.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent.

For traffic pointing their headlights directly at you, they're easily
brighter than all but the brightest of bike lights.

Arbut pedal reflectors are usually covered in clag 8-)

R.

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent.

For traffic pointing their headlights directly at you, they're easily
brighter than all but the brightest of bike lights. Useless for drivers
about to pull out of junctions tho.

And pedal reflectors are so fragile they break or drop off if they are so
much as looked at by the cyclist :-( To me, pedal reflectors are great idea,
but in reality they are often useless due to their inbuilt fragility.

I like wearing reflective stuff round my ankles - same effect and so far, no
problems with bands, or ankles, falling off ;-)

As for the side visibility issue... If they are wrapped round ankle, they
are visible from side. But I also have reflectors on wheels and I wear
reflective waistcoat.. as well as the lights.

Cheers, helen s

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Budstaff said:

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Although you (the rider) are then outside the law.

No, it's illegal to sell a new bike complete with pedals if the
pedals don't have reflectors. It's not illegal to ride one without
pedal reflectors, day or night

I believe you are wrong. I suggest you read the Road Vehicle Lighting
Regulations, especially regulation 18. there is an exemption if your
bike is old enough, but in general it IS illegal to ride without pedal
reflectors between sunset and sunrise. If you believe some later law
supersedes this, perhaps you would be so good as to quote it (or at
least reference it).

Tell you what, I'll even save you the bother of finding the
regulations:

"every vehicle of a class specified in a Table in Schedule 1 shall be
fitted with lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices which-
(a) are of a type specified in column 1 of that Table, and
(b) comply with the relevant installation, alignment and
performance requirements set out in the Schedule or Part of a Schedule
shown against that type in column 2 of that Table."

Table 3 of schedule 1, in case you are wondering, is the requirements
for pedal cycles, and contains the requirement:

"Pedal retro reflector Schedule 20: Part I"

Schedule 20 contains the requirements:

1. Number: Two reflectors on each pedal

2. Position- (a) Longitudinal:
On the leading edge and the trailing edge of each pedal
(b) Lateral:
No requirement
(c) Vertical:
No requirement

3. Angles of visibility:
Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is
plainly visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of
each pedal is plainly visible to the rear

4. Markings: A British Standard mark

5. Size of reflecting area:
No requirement

6. Colour: Amber

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

I stand corrected.

Anyone ever been done for the lack?

wafflycat said:

I like wearing reflective stuff round my ankles - same effect and so far, no
problems with bands, or ankles, falling off ;-)

As for the side visibility issue... If they are wrapped round ankle, they
are visible from side. But I also have reflectors on wheels and I wear
reflective waistcoat.. as well as the lights.

Reflective ankle bands are excellent. The problem is that without pedal
reflectors you're still illegal at night. Most recumbents of course
can't comply with the law even if pedal reflectors are fitted as
they're not clearly visible from behind. Panniers on an upright also
obscure pedal reflectors much of the time.

--
Dave...

Ian,

Without qualifying my earlier apology for having got it wrong, I've had
another look at the regulation you cite, and, purely for the devilment of
the discussion, would like to point out that there is no required size.

Presumably a very very tiny reflector indeed (perhaps 0 x 0) would be legal
as long as the line of sight to it, fore or aft, is unobstructed? It would
then be plainly visible if you could see it ;-)

People spend years studying the law and then command high salaries to come
up with stuff as woolly as this regulation.

<Meldrew on>
It makes me _seethe_!
<Meldrew off>

Clive George said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've often found, when driving a motor vehicle, that pedal reflectors
are the most clearly visible things on a bike (especially a bike ridden
without lights). Riding without them seems just a little bit silly?

The important thing here is "especially a bike ridden without lights". I
reckon if you've got decent lights, the amount pedal reflectors help is
small or non-existent. Which is fortunate, since double-sided SPDs can't
easily have them.

cheers,
clive

it doesn't matter how brightly lit and refletorised you are the [censored]
wil still get you from any angle (wife & I both taken out separately
over the years ... on one occasion my bike landed over 10 m away from
where I landed).. The cagers just don't look for cyclists, they look
past you, or else they don't clear the mist off the side windows to look
out.

--
"You can't see paradise if you don't pedal" (Fowler, Chicken Run)