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Chain waxing + graphite question

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Cycling Equipment
Published
7 February 2006
Last activity
16 March 2006
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HarryB
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  1. I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

  2. HarryB said:

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    I don't add graphite and don't see what is would do. I do add maybe
    5% motor oil to the wax. Parrafin wax is a bad lubricant. When a
    part gets scratched, the wax doesn't flow into the sratch. Maybe the
    small amount of oil in the wax will do that. I've had great luck in
    waxing chains in SoCal, where it is dry. I usually rewax when the
    chain squeeks. Getting caught in the rain will ruin a wax job almost
    instantly. I rode a waxed tandem chain in the rain one day. Next
    morning the dried chain already had rust spots.

    You can put a layer of screen on the bottom of your wax pot and avoid
    having to scrape the black layer off.

  3. "HarryB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

    I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
    new distributor, should be available.

    www.chainbutter.com

  4. Mike said:

    "HarryB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

    I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
    new distributor, should be available.

    www.chainbutter.com


    I don't see where ChainButter is better than the hot wax method I
    presently use. They recommend basically the same procedure for
    ChainButter that I use for hot waxing my chains. However, I use a
    FryDaddy deep fryer to heat the wax, so there is little danger of
    fire. I don't keep accurate notes, but am quite sure I get much better
    mileage between waxings than the 300 - 500 miles they claim for
    ChainButter. [1] The hot wax cost me only pennys and I expect to use
    the same wax for a long time. The ChainButter costs $19.95 + shipping.

    [1] I recently replaced the drive chain on our tandem (it broke) which
    had just over 2,000 miles on it. I had waxed it either two or three
    times and it had only stretched 25% according to my Park Tools Chain
    Checker.

    Harry

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    HarryB said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
    Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
    lubricant from Dupont.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

  6. Mike said:

    "HarryB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...


    ....

    Quoted message said:

    I've used this product in the past. Seems to work great. And now with a
    new distributor, should be available.

    www.chainbutter.com

    How about hydrogenated palm oil or some other processed vegetable oil
    that's close to solid at room temperature? It would be a lot cheaper.

    Something like Crisco, but a little more solid. Cocoa butter? It
    would smell nice.

  7. Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    HarryB said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
    Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
    lubricant from Dupont.

    What is the exact name of this product, and why is it better than the
    hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
    (highest priority first):
    1) Clean chain
    2) Reduced chain wear
    3) Low cost
    4) Ease of relubing

    Harry

  8. Mike DeMicco said:

    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
    Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
    lubricant from Dupont.

    I assume this "pure Teflon lubricant" is some sort of marketing
    nonsense. Pure Teflon is solid. I suspect SB's Real Man Saddles
    would work better than Dupont's Real Man Teflon Lube...

    Pat

    Email address works as is.

  9. HarryB said:
    Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    HarryB said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax
    to help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to
    the wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm
    done with waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I
    scrape off the sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    Harry

    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
    Teflon is a better additive. In fact, lose the wax and use pure Teflon
    lubricant from Dupont.

    What is the exact name of this product,

    It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
    solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
    Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
    results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"😉. The good
    news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
    center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
    label.

    Quoted message said:

    and why is it better than the
    hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
    (highest priority first):
    1) Clean chain
    2) Reduced chain wear
    3) Low cost
    4) Ease of relubing

    Harry

  10. Mike DeMicco said:


    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.

    Corrosive? How?

    E.P.

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ozark Bicycle said:

    HarryB wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What is the exact name of this product,

    It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
    solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
    Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
    results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"😉. The good
    news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
    center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
    label.

    Yes, that is it. See
    http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_multi.html . It
    may be made by Finish Line, but it is sold under the DuPont brand name.
    It says it can be used on bicycle chains.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    and why is it better than the
    hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
    (highest priority first):
    1) Clean chain
    2) Reduced chain wear
    3) Low cost
    4) Ease of relubing

    Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
    water. I've used the DuPont lubricant on my mountain bike chain, and it
    stays clean. I have only tried the squeeze bottle, not the spray.

    ProLink is also a good lube, but the chain doesn't stay as clean in the
    presence of dirt as with the Teflon lubricant.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ed Pirrero said:
    Mike DeMicco said:


    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.

    Corrosive? How?

    E.P.

    It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
    brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
    Google search for more information.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

  13. Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ed Pirrero said:
    Mike DeMicco said:


    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.

    Corrosive? How?

    E.P.

    It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
    brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
    Google search for more information.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

    Which two dissimilar metals are we talking about here? I don't believe
    carbon is a metal.

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    flatline said:
    Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ed Pirrero said:

    Mike DeMicco wrote:
    >
    > Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.
    >

    Corrosive? How?

    E.P.

    It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
    brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
    Google search for more information.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

    Which two dissimilar metals are we talking about here? I don't believe
    carbon is a metal.

    I don't know if it is or is not, but frankly I don't care. For the
    purposes of galvanic corrosion, graphite is highly incompatible with
    steel or aluminum. That is a fact. Look it up. The military has
    universally banned graphite in lubricants, just because of the corrosion
    problem.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

  15. On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:49:52 -0800, Mike DeMicco
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [---]

    Quoted message said:

    Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
    water.

    That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
    some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
    of its proponents?

  16. Andrew Price said:


    Quoted message said:

    Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
    water.

    That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
    some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
    of its proponents?

    And the chains also seem to last longer compared to any other lube...

    I'm starting to believe that cleanliness of the chains is *very*
    important in achieving a long life (and reduced friction)... more so
    than lubrication.

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ron Ruff said:
    Andrew Price said:


    Quoted message said:

    Because wax is a poor lubricant, doesn't last, and doesn't hold up to
    water.

    That's also what I've often read elsewhere; but surely wax must offer
    some advantages - how else do you explain the almost religious fervour
    of its proponents?

    And the chains also seem to last longer compared to any other lube...

    Do you have proof of that? I tried wax, but quickly got tired of having
    it fail mid ride; as a minimum causing squeaking and as a maximum,
    severe chainsuck. Also, it's worthless when it gets wet. I then tried
    blending wax with oil, but that defeated the cleanliness aspect of the
    wax. Besides, it was a PITA to go through the whole ritual and has to be
    done too often for my liking. Plus the wax flakes off and builds up on
    cogs, chainrings and pulleys and thus is not as clean as everyone makes
    it out to be.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm starting to believe that cleanliness of the chains is *very*
    important in achieving a long life (and reduced friction)... more so
    than lubrication.

    That may be true, but there are other lubes that are fairly clean and
    lubricate better and last longer.

    --
    Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

  18. Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ed Pirrero said:
    Mike DeMicco said:


    Don't use graphite- it's messy and corrosive if the chain gets wet.

    Corrosive? How?

    E.P.

    It's called galvanic corrosion, caused when two dissimilar metals are
    brought together in the presence of an electrolyte (e.g., water). Do a
    Google search for more information.

    What a polite and informative reply.

    E.P.

  19. HarryB said:

    I have been hot waxing my chains for the last year or so and have been
    quite pleased with the results. Before I rewax I take the still cool
    "cake" of wax out of the cooker and scrape off the small amount of
    sediment (dirt) that has settled to the bottom of the cake.

    I have read that some people recommend adding some graphite to the wax to
    help increase the life of the chain. However, if I add graphite to the
    wax, wouldn't it settle to the bottom of the wax cake after I'm done with
    waxing? In that case, wouldn't I remove the graphite when I scrape off the
    sediment, defeating the purpose of adding the graphite?

    I would think graphite would be unimaginably messy. Put a little oil in
    your wax instead.

    Matt O.

  20. Mike DeMicco said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ozark Bicycle said:

    HarryB wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What is the exact name of this product,

    It *might* be "DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant", a liquid with teflon
    solids which sets up dry. On the back, it says Mfg. & Dist. By Finish
    Line, Inc. I've used it on a number of things (pivots, etc.) with good
    results, but never on a chain (I have my own "chain ritual"😉. The good
    news is that a 4oz bottle is ~$3.39 at a big box home improvement
    center, so it's much cheaper than stuff with the official Finish Line
    label.

    Yes, that is it. See
    http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_multi.html . It
    may be made by Finish Line, but it is sold under the DuPont brand name.
    It says it can be used on bicycle chains.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    and why is it better than the
    hot wax method that I'm now using? My priorities are as follows
    (highest priority first):
    1) Clean chain
    2) Reduced chain wear
    3) Low cost
    4) Ease of relubing

    Because wax is a poor lubricant,


    I can't agree. When I replaced the last drive chain on our tandem
    (because it broke,) it had just over 2,000 miles on it. I checked it
    with a Park Tools chain checker and it measured about 25% stretch. My
    timing chain has about 3,200 miles on it and I just checked and it has
    not even stretched 25%. (Since this chain is longer than the drive
    chain, isn't shifted, and only has my torque on it, I would expect it
    to last longer than the drive chain.) These chains have been
    thoroughly cleaned of the original lube and only waxed. I submit that
    if wax is a poor lubricant I wouldn't be seeing this kind of mileage.

    Quoted message said:


    doesn't last,


    I suspect that I get at least 700 miles before the chain would start
    to squeak. That is much longer between relubing than other lubes I
    tried. (We only ride pavement.)

    Quoted message said:


    and doesn't hold up to water.


    I do agree with that. If the chain only gets slightly wet from riding
    in a light rain I didn't have to rewax, but after a downpour it
    squeaks immediately. We seldom ride in the rain, so this isn't much of
    a concern for me.

    Quoted message said:

    I've used the DuPont lubricant on my mountain bike chain, and it
    stays clean. I have only tried the squeeze bottle, not the spray.

    ProLink is also a good lube, but the chain doesn't stay as clean in the
    presence of dirt as with the Teflon lubricant.


    I have tried a couple of different lubricants, ProLink being the one I
    tried the longest before switching to hot wax. I called ProLink and
    followed the directions I was given for the "correct" preparation of
    the chain prior to using ProLink (thoroughly saturating the chain with
    ProLink.) I don't recall how often I was supposed to relube, but it
    involved putting a drop of lube on each link. This takes quite a while
    (a tandem has *many* links.) Some of the lube would drip off, so I had
    to put down rags or cardboard to absorb the drips. Then I had to leave
    the bike sit overnight or the lube would sling off. And, I was told to
    be sure to relube after each ride in the rain. Then I needed to run a
    cloth over the chain to take off the excess lube before riding after
    relubing.

    All of this was a lot of work and the chain was not whistle clean like
    with the hot wax method. The chain rings, cassette, and rear
    derailleur always had a black residue on them. It wasn't a heavy
    residue, but it was dirty. Since I try to keep our tandem showroom
    clean, a clean drive train is very important to me. Besides, I didn't
    like to see a chainring tattoo on my stoker's lovely legs - she's
    never had one after I switched to hot waxing.

    Harry

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