Puncture-Resistant!

See also yesterday's thread for a discussion of liners vs slime

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/2462ea0ea63b2586/9eaeb96bf500054a#9eaeb96bf500054aSpecialized Armadillos are a Kevlar-lined tyre that are fairlypuncture-resistant, but not that great compared with e.g. Schwalbe MarathonPlus.See http://bike.terrymorse.com/rolres.html for some stuff about rollingresistance

WHOO HOO!!! Thanks! I knew I wasn't a genius...of course someone's
thought of this stuff long before!

POHB said:

See also yesterday's thread for a discussion of liners vs slime

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/2462ea0ea63b2586/9eaeb96bf500054a#9eaeb96bf500054aSpecialized Armadillos are a Kevlar-lined tyre that are fairlypuncture-resistant, but not that great compared with e.g. Schwalbe MarathonPlus.See http://bike.terrymorse.com/rolres.html for some stuff about rollingresistance

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

Rolling resistance is the force required to roll the tire along the
ground. It comes from a bunch of factors related to the tire casing
deforming, friction between the tube and tire, etc. For slow speeds
and/or heavy riders rolling resistance can be a very significant
portion of the overall resistance a rider faces. If speed or endurance
over long distances is of no concern to you, don't worry about rolling
resistance.

Joseph

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

I ride on Kevlar belted tires on my df commuter, and in 3000 miles have
had only 1 punture flat. In my opinion they are very worthwhile on a
commuter, if available in the correct size for your wheels.

From what I know (very little) rolling resistance is a measure of how
well a wheel / tire combo rolls in relation to another wheel / tire combo.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

On 3 Feb 2006 06:49:47 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Won't stop a goathead alone. Will reduce the number of things that
can puncture the tube.

Quoted message said:

Armadillo tires?

Ditto.

Quoted message said:

Slime liquid??

Makes small punctures initially less troublesome; makes proper repair
more problematic.

Quoted message said:

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway??

The misfeature of a tire which causes energy to be consumed just in
the act of rolling the tire under load, primarily due to the force
required to deform the tread and tube (and whatever else may be
present) as the wheel rotates. In general, the more material there is
to flex, the more force it takes to do that. Some tire design factors
can reduce or increase the rolling resistance. Adding more stuff that
can and must be flexed will tend to increase it. I do not know if the
addition of Slime to the tire has (or has not) been shown to produce a
measurable increase in rolling resistance, but it has been widely
reported to foul the inflation valves on both Schrader and Presta
stems, making reinflation problematic at times.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

The most puncture 'resistance' you're going to get out of a clincher is
to run a thick tread, a stout-walled tube full of slime and a tubular
tire casing between the tube and clincher. It's insanely heavy, but it
would ensure the commuter rig gets you to work on time.

Just to offer a personal POV: I commuted on Armadillos for over a year,
and even rode a well-broken-in pair approx. 800 miles on my last tour,
all without a single puncture flat. I distinctly remember just giving a
little chuckle when I rode through a patch of broken glass on the road,
especially when riding in a group and watching the rest of them madly
swerve around it.

That being said, I no longer ride Armadillos, or indeed anything much
more puncture-resistant than the Panaracer T-Servs on my winter fixie,
because they make the bike feel like it's rolling along on garden
hoses, not tires. Worse, because the tires themselves are so rigid,
they're almost impossible to get a quick "squeeze" pressure read on, so
I probably went through just as many tubes from valve stem tear-outs
when uneccessarily topping off the pressure.

Also, the not-quite-round cross-section of the tire always made my bike
feel squirrely in corners. I've had a couple of crashes riding on
Armadillo 700Cx25 tires while attempting cornering that worked fine
with Michelin 700Cx23 rubber in equivalent conditions.

I've never used the liners or slime, but several people I know have as
a last-ditch attempt to avoid buying the new tires/rim tape/whatever
that really would have stopped them from constantly flatting. Of
course, proper inflation, regular checks of the rim for flaws, etc.,
all help a lot; even without armored tires, I haven't (knock on wood)
had a road flat in months.

Basically, it all comes down to just how hostile the environment you're
going to be riding in is, and how unwilling you are to ever stop and
fix a road flat. These days, I usually just carry my flat kit
regardless, and ride whatever tires were at hand (or on sale) the last
time I overhauled the bike.

Schwalbe marathon PLUS, I have these on my bent and have never (yet!) had a
puncture. Absolutely bullet proof

SW

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

Specalized Nimbus Tires (Kevlar Belted) WITH Thorn Tubes AND SLIME.

I used this for a nighttime commute where getting a flat ment missing a
train.

Slowed the bike down quite a bit.

On 3 Feb 2006 06:49:47 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

They work very well.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

Rolling resistance is the force required to roll the tire along the
ground. It comes from a bunch of factors related to the tire casing
deforming, friction between the tube and tire, etc. For slow speeds
and/or heavy riders rolling resistance can be a very significant
portion of the overall resistance a rider faces. If speed or endurance
over long distances is of no concern to you, don't worry about rolling
resistance.

Joseph

As I understand, rolling resistance comes primarily from tire and tube
rubber hysteresis, and there's no friction between tire and tube because
they move as one.

Robin Hubert

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

The most under-used segment of usenet, the FAQ.

"Rolling resistance of Tires"

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.14.html

Robin Hubert

Joseph Santaniello said:

Quoted message said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armadillo tires?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Slime liquid??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the
armadillos are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier
with a negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a
big deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line"
(where the line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

Quoted message said:

Rolling resistance is the force required to roll the tire along the
ground. It comes from a bunch of factors related to the tire casing
deforming, friction between the tube and tire, etc.

Rolling resistance in tires comes primarily from viscoelastic
hysteresis in the tread rubber, elastomeric binders in the casing and
viscoelastic hysteresis in inner tube rubber. Rubbing friction does
not exist between tire and inner tube and that of tread to road is
also insignificant. If this were not so, tires would wear out many
times faster than they do.

Hysteresis, although more commonly used in magnetics, is a
characteristic of rubber whereby it requires more energy to be
deformed than it returns when rebounding. Superball rubber has
strikingly lower hysteresis and therefore bounces exceptionally well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superball

Quoted message said:

For slow speeds and/or heavy riders rolling resistance can be a very
significant portion of the overall resistance a rider faces. If
speed or endurance over long distances is of no concern to you,
don't worry about rolling resistance.

Could you quantify "very"? I think this is misleading in that when
there are no wind (the primary one) losses, small rolling losses are
practically all that is left. That doesn't make them any larger as
one might deduce from your explanation.

You may not be aware that the use of "very" reduces technical
descriptions to rumor. You can VERY well delete "very" from your
vocabulary because it destroys adjectives and adverbs that it
modifies.

Jobst Brandt

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

The hell is rolling resistance anyway?? I suspect it sounds like a big
deal but is just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....

Armadillos...love them. Have tried others but always come back to the
Armadillos

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

There's always a tradeoff between puncture resistance and rolling
resistance. Armadillos are almost puncture proof, but they are noticeably
slower than typical road racing tires.

One thing to consider is tires with thicker than usual tread, like the
inverted tread Avocet Cross, or Continental Town and Country and Grand
Canyon. These have tread thick enough to stop most things that cause
flats. They're heavy and slow, but may be faster than Armadillos, or
tires with liners and/or Slime. They're certainly less fussy than the
latter.

I once asked a bike cop why their department used the heavy and slow
Continental T&C/GC tires. He said it was because they often had to ride
through glass and other debris, and they couldn't afford flats. Also,
these tires are very low cost in terms of tread life per dollar -- perfect
for commuting.

Matt O.

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) You can VERY well delete
"very" from your vocabulary because it destroys adjectives and adverbs that
it modifies.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is mutually self-contradictory, JB. ;-)

"NYC XYZ" wrote: just another way of saying "tangent of a line" (where the
line of the ground meets the circle of the wheel)....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rolling resistance is a force. The tangent you refer to is the line along
which this force acts. They are related, but not the same.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Matt O'Toole said:

NYC XYZ said:

Mr. Tuffy strips?

Armadillo tires?

Slime liquid??

Anyone know anything about these products? Apparently the armadillos
are very highly recommended, and only marginally heavier with a
negligible amount of -- what? -- "rolling resistance."

There's always a tradeoff between puncture resistance and rolling
resistance. Armadillos are almost puncture proof, but they are noticeably
slower than typical road racing tires.

One thing to consider is tires with thicker than usual tread, like the
inverted tread Avocet Cross, or Continental Town and Country and Grand
Canyon. These have tread thick enough to stop most things that cause
flats. They're heavy and slow, but may be faster than Armadillos, or
tires with liners and/or Slime. They're certainly less fussy than the
latter.

I once asked a bike cop why their department used the heavy and slow
Continental T&C/GC tires. He said it was because they often had to ride
through glass and other debris, and they couldn't afford flats. Also,
these tires are very low cost in terms of tread life per dollar -- perfect
for commuting.

Police officers almost always cruise slowly. For the
occasional long sprint they are fit and motivated.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>, rault00
@earthWEEDSlink.net says...

....

Quoted message said:

measurable increase in rolling resistance, but it has been widely
reported to foul the inflation valves on both Schrader and Presta
stems, making reinflation problematic at times.

That's why I stopped using it after one trial tube.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).