a problem

On 28 Jan 2006 14:15:18 -0800, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

(someone brought this up on the fixedgeargallery.com boards)

What's the problem? It's a cheap, heavy, RBSO. It'll fit one rider
in six properly (if they're lucky). I will note that in my travels
around the US, I have looked at the bikes present in Wal-Mart stores
in urban and rural areas of at least 13 states, and I have yet to see
one of these bikes in stock.

I also think it's a reflection of their lack of marketing acumen that
this RBSO, which *ought* to be wearing a name that conjures up speed,
nimbleness and light weight, is instead plastered with the moniker of
a lumbering behemoth. It's like putting a WWE tank top on somebody
who's supposed to be a ballet dancer. It just doesn't work.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
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"Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

(someone brought this up on the fixedgeargallery.com boards)

It is a internet only sale item, they don't normally sell it in the stores,
unless it is a return or something.
Yes it is cheap.
It is basically a heavy aluminum frame MTB with road bars and road wheels.
The shifting stuff says it is Shimano, I guess they make low end shifter
stuff too.
The handlebars are a two piece affair with a heavy clamp piece in the
middle, that allows them to put on the grip shifters.
They put in tapped holes for a rear rack and or fenders too.
I'd change out the Kenda tires for better puncture resistant tires as the
thorns go right through them easily.
It works OK, my son rode his in last years HHH at Witchta Falls Texas. No
problems encountered.
Of course my son didn't try to ride hard as he was courting all of the
"abandoned girls" riding along in the event.
I don't see anything wrong with the bike, yes it is cheap, yes it is heavy,
but it is a way to get someone into road riding without spending a lot more
money. Especially if they don't seem to be all that interested in riding in
the first place.
It isn't intended to target the market where riders want much better bikes
or want to rider harder and more seriously.
But it does work OK though. Shifting is slow and you have to be deliberate
with it, the grip shifters have a lot of slop and you sometimes have to
fiddle with them to get it just so. But I think most of the target audience
would probably put in a low gear and not shift anyway, and just tool around
at an easy pace.
Its too bad they only make one size, I think three sizes would have worked a
lot better.
This one just barely fits my son. he is like 5'8". a person around 6 feet
wouldn't have much problem with bike fit.
You'll need one of those fancy $10 handlebar stem cyclocomputer adapters if
you want to put a cyclocomputer on it, as the handlebars in the center
section are like 2.5" in diameter, and the stem is large to accomodate it.

Earl Bollinger said:

I don't see anything wrong with the bike, yes it is cheap, yes it is heavy,
but it is a way to get someone into road riding without spending a lot more
money. Especially if they don't seem to be all that interested in riding in
the first place.

But it's still $150. Used Schwinn Varsitys are cheaper, absurdly
durable, and available in several sizes. Plus, you can always sex them
up with paint and stickers, if you see fit. They don't mind. You can
even paint the derailleurs and chain; they'll still kind of work. I
don't recommend it, but I assure you it's so.

-Vee

Vee said:

Earl Bollinger said:

I don't see anything wrong with the bike, yes it is cheap, yes it is heavy,
but it is a way to get someone into road riding without spending a lot more
money. Especially if they don't seem to be all that interested in riding in
the first place.

But it's still $150. Used Schwinn Varsitys are cheaper, absurdly
durable, and available in several sizes. Plus, you can always sex them
up with paint and stickers, if you see fit. They don't mind. You can
even paint the derailleurs and chain; they'll still kind of work. I
don't recommend it, but I assure you it's so.

And, perhaps best of all from the standpoint of those of us who
believe that the twistgrip is a device sent by dark forces to induce
psychotic behavior in otherwise sane cyclists, it has normal, sane,
ordinary shift levers. Oh, and 27" wheels, as is more proper.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Vee said:

Earl Bollinger said:

I don't see anything wrong with the bike, yes it is cheap, yes it is heavy,
but it is a way to get someone into road riding without spending a lot more
money. Especially if they don't seem to be all that interested in riding in
the first place.

But it's still $150. Used Schwinn Varsitys are cheaper, absurdly
durable, and available in several sizes. Plus, you can always sex them
up with paint and stickers, if you see fit. They don't mind. You can
even paint the derailleurs and chain; they'll still kind of work. I
don't recommend it, but I assure you it's so.

And, perhaps best of all from the standpoint of those of us who
believe that the twistgrip is a device sent by dark forces to induce
psychotic behavior in otherwise sane cyclists, it has normal, sane,
ordinary shift levers. Oh, and 27" wheels, as is more proper.

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On 28 Jan 2006 14:15:18 -0800, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

(someone brought this up on the fixedgeargallery.com boards)

...
I also think it's a reflection of their lack of marketing acumen that
this RBSO, which *ought* to be wearing a name that conjures up speed,
nimbleness and light weight, is instead plastered with the moniker of
a lumbering behemoth....

GMC has yet to figure out the proper spelling of "Denial".

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

http://www.walmart.com(<there's the problem right
there!)/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Earl Bollinger said:

"Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

(someone brought this up on the fixedgeargallery.com boards)

It is a internet only sale item, they don't normally sell it in the
stores, unless it is a return or something.

A fellow I work with bought one at our local Wal-Mart a couple weeks ago.
He's just starting out riding, and this was a way for him to get into and
try out the sport without spending a great deal of money. We (me and the
guys I ride "real" 🙂 bikes with) did talk to him at length about the
risks of a department-store bike, but for what he was wanting to do, we
had no compelling argument against this bike.

After he got it we went over it. We found some problems related to
assembly (probably the kids at the store put it together), but after
straightening out a few things and some adjustments, it's working rather
well for him. Time will tell how well it holds up.

I also spotted a road bike in a Target store for $49.99.

Werehatrack said:

Werehatrack said:

Vee said:

Earl Bollinger wrote:

>I don't see anything wrong with the bike, yes it is cheap, yes it is heavy,
>but it is a way to get someone into road riding without spending a lot more
>money. Especially if they don't seem to be all that interested in riding in
>the first place.

But it's still $150. Used Schwinn Varsitys are cheaper, absurdly
durable, and available in several sizes. Plus, you can always sex them
up with paint and stickers, if you see fit. They don't mind. You can
even paint the derailleurs and chain; they'll still kind of work. I
don't recommend it, but I assure you it's so.

And, perhaps best of all from the standpoint of those of us who
believe that the twistgrip is a device sent by dark forces to induce
psychotic behavior in otherwise sane cyclists, it has normal, sane,
ordinary shift levers. Oh, and 27" wheels, as is more proper.

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

Mark

Bluejay said:

Earl Bollinger said:

"Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3663046

(someone brought this up on the fixedgeargallery.com boards)

It is a internet only sale item, they don't normally sell it in the
stores, unless it is a return or something.

A fellow I work with bought one at our local Wal-Mart a couple weeks ago.
He's just starting out riding, and this was a way for him to get into and
try out the sport without spending a great deal of money. We (me and the
guys I ride "real" 🙂 bikes with) did talk to him at length about the
risks of a department-store bike, but for what he was wanting to do, we
had no compelling argument against this bike.

After he got it we went over it. We found some problems related to
assembly (probably the kids at the store put it together), but after
straightening out a few things and some adjustments, it's working rather
well for him. Time will tell how well it holds up.

I also spotted a road bike in a Target store for $49.99.

The thing is that virtually all of these that get sold are never going
to get those few minor adjustments, and most will need a lot more than
that. Most are sold with at least one thing wrong that a shop mechanic
would see as a considerable safety issue.

I've worked a lot in a low-end shop that gets a lot of people coming in
with dept store bikes, a good deal of which are brand new. You could
argue that my perspective is skewed because the majority of the dept
store bikes I see have big enough problems to get someone into a bike
shop, but we always spot plenty of stuff that's not what they came in
for, and it's *not* like these are the bikes that got put together by
the more careless assemblers. They're all careless. You can't do the
job of putting a bike together in the amount of time they have to do it
without being careless. And it's not right because people get hurt
because of it.

There's another issue: that people tend to have very poor experiences
on department store bikes in general. Between horrible fit, mechanical
condition, efficiency, and safety issues, people get a poor impression
of cycling. And these people don't know a thing about the specialty
bike industry. This is a huge ongoing problem for everyone who cares
about bikes, although it's less visible and seems less important to
some of us than others. My main personal attachment to bikes has to do
with bike transportation advocacy and community bike shop mechanical
work, and so I see dept store bikes as more threatening than most
because they have such an ability to turn normal people off to using
bikes, but the way they end up contributing to the public perception of
bikes has implications for everyone involved with bikes.

The reason I posted this here is because I wasn't aware of these bikes
until I saw this, and thought similar dept-store-bike-hating mechanics
would like to know.

Mark Janeba said:

Werehatrack said:

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

Road. Much of what WallyWorld sells is just generically BSOs, but the
specific unit under discussion is their web-only Kent Denali, which
aspires to road-bike-hood. I have come to understand that the general
public now views the mountain bike as an all-purpose unit (which it's
not) but the road bike is often regarded as something that only
contortionists, masochists and racers would put up with. Hybrids have
been slow to impinge upon the mass-market public's consciousness,
probably because their relatively ordinary appearance renders them
unremarkable and thereby partially invisible...though in my opinion,
they're probably the most useful form of familiar-looking bike for the
average non-enthusiast rider. "Cruisers", on the other hand, seem to
be gaining ground fast, which just baffles me to some extent; they're
largely heavy, featureless, overpriced and inefficient, but they sell
like hotcakes based (from what I can tell) entirely on their retro
appeal.

Many years ago, a car dealership owner told me that the product's
quality was no higher than fourth on the list of the average buyer's
priorities, specifically in deciding what car to buy, but for
purchases in general as well. For a long time, I didn't really
appreciate how right he was.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On 29 Jan 2006 17:20:30 -0800, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

There's another issue: that people tend to have very poor experiences
on department store bikes in general. Between horrible fit, mechanical
condition, efficiency, and safety issues, people get a poor impression
of cycling. And these people don't know a thing about the specialty
bike industry. This is a huge ongoing problem for everyone who cares
about bikes, although it's less visible and seems less important to
some of us than others. My main personal attachment to bikes has to do
with bike transportation advocacy and community bike shop mechanical
work, and so I see dept store bikes as more threatening than most
because they have such an ability to turn normal people off to using
bikes, but the way they end up contributing to the public perception of
bikes has implications for everyone involved with bikes.

I see your point and agree with it to a significant extent, but I have
come away from my exposure to the BSO-riding public with a somewhat
different set of experiences. I get to talk to a fair number of folks
who ride Roadmaster-level bikes on a daily basis, many of them as
primary transport. A lot of these daily-use riders are utterly
unconcerned about the issues which are central to the enthusiast. To
them, "proper fit" is almost a non-issue, and performance is measured
only as relative to not having a bike to ride. They aren't interested
in becoming "cyclists"; they just ride their bikes to get where
they're going, and as long as the bike gets them there, that's all
they care about. Unsurprisingly, the average X-Mart bike suits them
just fine.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 02:06:39 GMT, Werehatrack <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mark Janeba said:

Werehatrack said:

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

Road. Much of what WallyWorld sells is just generically BSOs, but the
specific unit under discussion is their web-only Kent Denali, which
aspires to road-bike-hood. I have come to understand that the general
public now views the mountain bike as an all-purpose unit (which it's
not) but the road bike is often regarded as something that only
contortionists, masochists and racers would put up with.

Here in Tampa, I'm seeing a LOT more drop bar utility bikes in recent years.
There was a while where you'd never them, now they seem as common as ever.
Ron

Quoted message said:

Hybrids have
been slow to impinge upon the mass-market public's consciousness,
probably because their relatively ordinary appearance renders them
unremarkable and thereby partially invisible...though in my opinion,
they're probably the most useful form of familiar-looking bike for the
average non-enthusiast rider. "Cruisers", on the other hand, seem to
be gaining ground fast, which just baffles me to some extent; they're
largely heavy, featureless, overpriced and inefficient, but they sell
like hotcakes based (from what I can tell) entirely on their retro
appeal.

Many years ago, a car dealership owner told me that the product's
quality was no higher than fourth on the list of the average buyer's
priorities, specifically in deciding what car to buy, but for
purchases in general as well. For a long time, I didn't really
appreciate how right he was.

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)

Mark Janeba said:

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

I assumed he meant "Road"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Many years ago, a car dealership owner told me that the product's
quality was no higher than fourth on the list of the average buyer's
priorities, specifically in deciding what car to buy, but for
purchases in general as well. For a long time, I didn't really
appreciate how right he was.

Well, a car dealership is where I'd get *my* market research 🙂

Oh, and by the way, that list would be quite different at a Mercedes, Volvo,
Audi, BMW or Lexus dealer, among others.

Lee

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:52:56 -0500, "Lee"

lee_AT_SHOES_wheelman_DOT_com said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Many years ago, a car dealership owner told me that the product's
quality was no higher than fourth on the list of the average buyer's
priorities, specifically in deciding what car to buy, but for
purchases in general as well. For a long time, I didn't really
appreciate how right he was.

Well, a car dealership is where I'd get *my* market research 🙂

Oh, and by the way, that list would be quite different at a Mercedes, Volvo,
Audi, BMW or Lexus dealer, among others.

He *was* an Audi dealer[1], and IIANM now sells BMW. The average US
buyer of those new cars isn't making the purchase because it's a good
car, they're buying it because it's the fashionable thing to do in
their circles.

[1] In those days, the memory of the old 4-cylinder cam-in-block Audi
100 was still fresh, and the execrable 5000 Turbo (which was still
selling like crazy) with the 50000 mile steering and brake system was
a current topic of mirth at Volvo, MB and BMW. Not that Volvo had
anything to crow about, given the camshafts on their V6 of the period.
My remaining contacts in the foreign car service business report that
while Audi's products have improved since then, they'll still eat you
alive on service costs once you're past the warranty. As of the last
I heard, the US-sold vehicle line with the lowest in-warranty repair
expense was still Subaru. It may have changed, though; I haven't
bothered to check for quite a while.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:02:31 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

(Proper, that is, for a cheap, heavy RBSO; Wal-Mart carries a 27"
tire, but they don't carry anything that fits their own RBSO.)

Mark Janeba said:

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

I assumed he meant "Road"

Yup. Big stores carry lots of generic BSOs, but seldom any RBSOs.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article <[email hidden]>, Werehatrack
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

"Cruisers", on the other hand, seem to
be gaining ground fast, which just baffles me to some extent; they're
largely heavy, featureless, overpriced and inefficient, but they sell
like hotcakes based...

<snip>

Why should it be all that baffling? The velo-sphere is not exempt from
the lemming-like irrationality of consumer trends. Substituting "SUVs"
for "Cruisers" underscores that its merely the same lunacy cycling
(apologies) into a different milieu.

Luke

Werehatrack said:

Mark Janeba said:

Slightly off-topic question: "BSO" I understand, but what does the "R"
stand for? "Roughly"?

Road. Much of what WallyWorld sells is just generically BSOs, but the
specific unit under discussion is their web-only Kent Denali, which
aspires to road-bike-hood. I have come to understand that the general
public now views the mountain bike as an all-purpose unit (which it's
not) but the road bike is often regarded as something that only
contortionists, masochists and racers would put up with.

Thanks for the answer. The [dis]regard you cite is widespread and not
new. Many years ago, before mountain bikes, I was waiting for a store
to open with my road bike parked alongside me near the store's door.

A *very wide* woman (probably equal to two of me) came up with someone
else to wait for opening time. After a moment, she pointed to the
bike's drop bars and said in a loud voice, apparently intending for me
to hear, "that's un-natural!" I somehow managed not to burst out laughing.

Mark