Cyclecraft

"Succorso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bought me a copy of "Cyclecraft". Great book - just what I needed after so many dormant years out
of the saddle.

This "primary riding position" takes some getting used to around town. After all those years
keeping as far as possible from anything big with wheels, it's strange to be planting myself
in amongst em now - but I see the reasoning... i think :-o My experience so far is that
motorists hate it. So far been bibbed twice, and yelled at once - and I only started on this
during this week.

I guess the PRP is fine if you can keep a speed vaguely similar to the general traffic speeds, but
if someone uses PRP while bumbling along at 5mph i could imagine it would not go down quite so well.

Quoted message said:

Bought me a copy of "Cyclecraft". Great book - just what I needed after so many dormant years out
of the saddle.

This "primary riding position" takes some getting used to ....

Yes, it's a good book, and John Franklin has some interesting stuff on his web site, too.
<www.lesberries.co.uk>, I think.

There's another book, "Effective Cycling", by John Foreter, MIT Press.

Forester expresses the concept differently. He talks about "wide lanes" and "narrow lanes". If it's
a narrow lane, you have to "take the lane" for your own protection.

There's an art to taking the lane, so that you don't look as if you are willfully blocking the guy
behind you. Really, you are perfectly entitled to plonk yourself right in the middle of the lane,
but that irritates people, so it's better to be more subtle, and come out just far enough to be
effective. The nearside tyre track of the cars is about right.

Effective Cycling is a very good book. It's a general purpose Cycling Book, not just about about
riding in traffic, and contains a bunch of very useful stuff that no other bike book does. Forester
can be irritating, because he famously says what he thinks, very bluntly, using words like
"superstition" for ideas he disagrees with. However, he gives his reasons.

Forester is a Californian, but actually he was born in London's Dulwich, emigrating with his family
when he was a teenager. He's the son of the Forester who wrote the Hornblower books.

Jeremy Parker

"Susannah Grant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Succorso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

I guess the PRP is fine if you can keep a speed vaguely similar to the general traffic speeds, but
if someone uses PRP while bumbling along at

5mph

Quoted message said:

i could imagine it would not go down quite so well.

Your speed is irrelevant - what matters is the lane width.

If there is not sufficient space within the lane to permit the car following to overtake safely then
it is important not to invite the driver to risk your life by doing so (if you ride too far to the
left you are simply giving the false impression to the driver that there is a gap big enough to
squeeze through - while simultaneously removing any escape room for yourself should they try). This
is just as important if you are riding at 5mph as it is at 20.

Succorso said:

Bought me a copy of "Cyclecraft". Great book - just what I needed after so many dormant years out
of the saddle.

John's Cat email hidden in said:

I've even been told to move over by plod. Shows how much they know (or care).

I notice that Cyclecraft is published by "The Stationery Office" which, as a link is willingly
provided from the HMSO website, is presumably the trading division of HMSO?

Presumably then, the government fully support what is written in this book?

So it seems perfectly legitimate to hold your position in the PRP without being told by the police
to move over.

Well that's what seems logical to me.

Love and cyclepaths from Rich x

--
If ingnorance is bliss then I am the erm er luckiest thingy in the whatchamacallit. To mail me,
change the obvious bit to richard

Peter Owens said:

Your speed is irrelevant - what matters is the lane width.

If there is not sufficient space within the lane to permit the car following to overtake safely
then it is important not to invite the driver to risk your life by doing so (if you ride too far
to the left you are simply giving the false impression to the driver that there is a gap big
enough to squeeze through - while simultaneously removing any escape room for yourself should they
try). This is just as important if you are riding at 5mph as it is at 20.

True but also remember Para 145 of the Highway Code if you are cycling slowly and holding
up traffic:

"Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow moving
vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let
traffic pass"

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Owens said:

Your speed is irrelevant - what matters is the lane width.

If there is not sufficient space within the lane to permit the car following to overtake safely
then it is important not to invite the driver to risk your life by doing so (if you ride too far
to the left you are simply giving the false impression to the driver that there is a gap big
enough to squeeze through - while simultaneously removing any escape room for yourself should
they try). This is just as important if you are riding at 5mph as it is at 20.

True but also remember Para 145 of the Highway Code if you are cycling slowly and holding up
traffic:

It is extremely rare to hold up traffic even when riding slowly in the primary position. It is
pretty easy to overtake cycles - and the slower the cycle the easier it is to overtake. In many
years of driving I have never been held up by more than a couple of bends by a cyclist - and I
always drive as if a cyclist was driving in primary position even if they are hugging the gutter. On
the other hand I have often had to follow a car for 30 miles or so.

The only way a cyclist riding in the primary position is holding up traffic is by forcing drivers to
wait until it is safe to overtake - which they should be doing in any case.

Quoted message said:

"Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow moving
vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let
traffic pass"

Absolutely, but note the "where it is safe".

Just as it is critical to take the lane when it is not safe to overtake it is important to move over
to the secondary position where safe overtaking is possible.

I have seen plenty of long queues of traffic in my time - but never one caused by a cyclist riding
in the primary position.

Succorso said:

This "primary riding position" takes some getting used to around town. After all those years
keeping as far as possible from anything big with wheels, it's strange to be planting myself in
amongst em now - but I see the reasoning... i think :-o

Da fing is ... around here, I keep up with the town traffic, so by riding in the middle of the lane,
I'm not holding any drivers up, so they have a hard time getting angry about it.

Quoted message said:

My experience so far is that motorists hate it. So far been bibbed twice, and yelled at once - and
I only started on this during this week.

I get the impression that I'm not popular, although I don't think I've been hooted at around town,
but that's as much because I'm sailing past the entire queue of traffic while Mr & Mrs Motorist are
sat in it and fuming.

--
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