Seat question

I have a Champion Flyer. It's nice for fairly upright riding positions
where the bars are higher than the saddle. Its no.1 best feature is
that it's very handsome. It's comfy, if your butt likes Brooks. Mine
doesn't for long distances, YMMV--I like it fine for tootlin' round the
hood.

But, it's expensive, heavy, and not the best choice for most probably.
Mine's in the parts bin at the moment waiting for a mellow city bike.

Saddles are personal, so recommendations will very wildly. You might
find better recommendations if you state your handlebar/saddle
relationship, weight, intended use, and previous saddles and comments
on those.

I find that classic saddles like the Rolls and Turbo make a lot of
folks happy--plastic shells with a bit of give and minimal padding. Not
made any more, but easy enough to find.

🙂

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi
I'm looking for a good seat for my mountainbike. I particularly want a
comfortable seat for touring as I do moderate to long distances in a day.
Anyone tried the Brooks Champion flyer or have any recommendations? I am
new to this site so apologies if this has been asked a million times.

Of course the stock answer is to suggest a Brooks B17. I have two of them
and my rear end likes them. I also like the high tech saddles, the ones with
the numbness-preventing cutouts. The Specialized BG Pro is very good. The
Brooks look better though.

"gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi
I'm looking for a good seat for my mountainbike. I particularly want a
comfortable seat for touring as I do moderate to long distances in a day.
Anyone tried the Brooks Champion flyer or have any recommendations? I am
new to this site so apologies if this has been asked a million times.

Of course the stock answer is to suggest a Brooks B17. I have two of them
and my rear end likes them. I also like the high tech saddles, the ones
with the numbness-preventing cutouts. The Specialized BG Pro is very good.
The Brooks look better though.

Thanks for replies. Not sure of dimensions of bike - medium size is all I
know. Is the Brooks B17 sprung or unsprung?

Quoted message said:

B17 is unsprung and the best choice for most riders. the Flyer is a
B-17 with springs.

The springs don't do a whole deal to soak up everyday vibration, and
they can cause "bob" at higher cadences. They look really cool on town
scoots, and are pretty good for a tandem stoker to take the edge off
the odd unseen bump.

I don't think it's worth riding a Brooks on a bike without fenders. The
top can take a little drizzle , but road spray on the bottom is bad
news.

It's supposed to be common wisdom that Brooks are great because they
break in to your behind. I find that a little misleading, at least in
my case. I find Brooks most comfy after a couple hours break in. They
stay pretty good for half a year or so, but when they're supposedly
really nice and broken in, the way a lot of veteran Brooks'ites like
them, that's when they start making my bits go numb.

I also don't like the rivets, as I like to be able to use the whole
riding surface, especially on climbs.

Don't get me wrong, I think Brooks saddles are pretty neat, just not
*the answer* for every butt.

Older 80s racing saddles work the same way as a Brooks more or less,
using a thin nylon shell that deforms to provide comfort instead of
much padding. Less padding means you don't sink in and get numb. Some
new ones are nice too, but tend to have stitching or wiener slots and
other things that chafe. A good plastic saddle won't deform over time
like a Brooks, which is a nice thing.

There's no real "right" answer. I used to be a 100% Brooks guy, until I
finally discovered that there were plastic saddles that fit me even
better.

Traditional leather saddles are still the best looking. :P

landotter said:

Saddles are personal, so recommendations will very wildly. You might
find better recommendations if you state your handlebar/saddle
relationship, weight, intended use, and previous saddles and comments
on those.

I hope you don't mind me hijacking the thread (online wheel-sucking, as
it were) but it sounds like you might have some reasonable advice for
me, too.

Last year I adjusted my saddle's tilt to address numb hands/sore
shoulders. The slightly nose-up position is great for my arms, but now
my butt seems to get sore more quickly than before. I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

I ride in a fairly upright position on my road bike - the handlebars
are slightly lower than the saddle - maybe 2". I'm about 5'10" and
weigh 145-150 lbs. I normally put in about 100-140 miles per week -
roughly 6-8 hours. Short rides are 1-1.5 hours, long rides, 3-4 hours.
My butt usually starts to hurt at the 1.5-2 hour mark. I shift my
position and get out of the saddle regularly during a ride, but it
delays the soreness by only 30 minutes or so.

Previous saddles: first was the stock saddle on my mountain bike
(Specialized Rock Hopper hardtail). When it wore out, I replaced it
with something slightly firmer, but it still had "gel" in the name.
(Both saddles were a bit brutal after 2-3 hours.) Then I bought a road
bike (Specialized Allez) and I've been using the saddle that came with
it. It's firmer than anything I had on my MTB, but still has a little
bit of padding and I suspect it's soft compared to some road saddles.

I had both bikes fit at the LBS, although neither was a full-price
professional bike fit. I'd like to try a number of saddles to get a
feel for different types, but bike shops are understandably reluctant
to let me "try" a saddle for a week.

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

landotter said:

Saddles are personal, so recommendations will very wildly. You might
find better recommendations if you state your handlebar/saddle
relationship, weight, intended use, and previous saddles and comments
on those.

I hope you don't mind me hijacking the thread (online wheel-sucking, as
it were) but it sounds like you might have some reasonable advice for
me, too.

Last year I adjusted my saddle's tilt to address numb hands/sore
shoulders. The slightly nose-up position is great for my arms, but now
my butt seems to get sore more quickly than before. I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

I ride in a fairly upright position on my road bike - the handlebars
are slightly lower than the saddle - maybe 2". I'm about 5'10" and
weigh 145-150 lbs. I normally put in about 100-140 miles per week -
roughly 6-8 hours. Short rides are 1-1.5 hours, long rides, 3-4 hours.
My butt usually starts to hurt at the 1.5-2 hour mark. I shift my
position and get out of the saddle regularly during a ride, but it
delays the soreness by only 30 minutes or so.

Previous saddles: first was the stock saddle on my mountain bike
(Specialized Rock Hopper hardtail). When it wore out, I replaced it
with something slightly firmer, but it still had "gel" in the name.
(Both saddles were a bit brutal after 2-3 hours.) Then I bought a road
bike (Specialized Allez) and I've been using the saddle that came with
it. It's firmer than anything I had on my MTB, but still has a little
bit of padding and I suspect it's soft compared to some road saddles.

I had both bikes fit at the LBS, although neither was a full-price
professional bike fit. I'd like to try a number of saddles to get a
feel for different types, but bike shops are understandably reluctant
to let me "try" a saddle for a week.

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

SlowRider said:

I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

snip

Quoted message said:

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

Oh, sure it is.

Sounds like you're still got too much excess padding under yer butt. A
firmer saddle might be the answer. I know it sounds crazy, but a saddle
can be firmer, yet more comfy, as the comfort usually isn't in the
padding, but the resilience of the shell. Most saddles these days seem
either overly padded or strangely shaped. :/ I ride vintage, but my
buddies all swear by Flites. Could be a fashion thing or they could be
actually comfy, I've not done major miles on one, so I'm not going to
endorse them personally.

You might want to think about your shorts, too. Too much padding will
press up on your perinium (or as we call it down here, the "taint"😉 and
irritate.

Take that advice with a grain of salt, I might be completely off the
mark. :P

SlowRider said:

I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

snip

Quoted message said:

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

Oh, sure it is.

Sounds like you're still got too much excess padding under yer butt. A
firmer saddle might be the answer. I know it sounds crazy, but a saddle
can be firmer, yet more comfy, as the comfort usually isn't in the
padding, but the resilience of the shell. Most saddles these days seem
either overly padded or strangely shaped. :/ I ride vintage, but my
buddies all swear by Flites. Could be a fashion thing or they could be
actually comfy, I've not done major miles on one, so I'm not going to
endorse them personally.

You might want to think about your shorts, too. Too much padding will
press up on your perinium (or as we call it down here, the "taint"😉 and
irritate.

Take that advice with a grain of salt, I might be completely off the
mark. :P

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

Oh, sure it is.

That's good news! It sure helps to know it's possible.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're still got too much excess padding under yer butt. A
firmer saddle might be the answer. I know it sounds crazy, but a saddle
can be firmer, yet more comfy, as the comfort usually isn't in the
padding, but the resilience of the shell. Most saddles these days seem
either overly padded or strangely shaped. :/ I ride vintage, but my
buddies all swear by Flites. Could be a fashion thing or they could be
actually comfy, I've not done major miles on one, so I'm not going to
endorse them personally.

I just got back from a quick ride. While I was out I tried to
concentrate on what I felt on my derriere. I did notice that the
padding pushed up a bit, right up the "taint" as you say. Hardly
noticeable early on, but eventually annoying. I thumbed the saddle
when I got home and it does have quite a bit of padding even though it
looks like a "real" road saddle.

Guess I know what my next step will be -- LBS, here I come...

Thanks!

-JR

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

Oh, sure it is.

That's good news! It sure helps to know it's possible.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're still got too much excess padding under yer butt. A
firmer saddle might be the answer. I know it sounds crazy, but a saddle
can be firmer, yet more comfy, as the comfort usually isn't in the
padding, but the resilience of the shell. Most saddles these days seem
either overly padded or strangely shaped. :/ I ride vintage, but my
buddies all swear by Flites. Could be a fashion thing or they could be
actually comfy, I've not done major miles on one, so I'm not going to
endorse them personally.

I just got back from a quick ride. While I was out I tried to
concentrate on what I felt on my derriere. I did notice that the
padding pushed up a bit, right up the "taint" as you say. Hardly
noticeable early on, but eventually annoying. I thumbed the saddle
when I got home and it does have quite a bit of padding even though it
looks like a "real" road saddle.

Guess I know what my next step will be -- LBS, here I come...

Thanks!

-JR

SlowRider said:

Quoted message said:

Guess I know what my next step will be -- LBS, here I come...

Just one more suggestion. If your butt is sore now I would wait until
it heals a bit before trying new saddles. Any extant soreness may
temporarily change your position and you may not get a good read on how
the saddle will feel for the long run.

SlowRider said:

Quoted message said:

Guess I know what my next step will be -- LBS, here I come...

Just one more suggestion. If your butt is sore now I would wait until
it heals a bit before trying new saddles. Any extant soreness may
temporarily change your position and you may not get a good read on how
the saddle will feel for the long run.

"SlowRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope you don't mind me hijacking the thread (online wheel-sucking, as
it were) but it sounds like you might have some reasonable advice for
me, too.

Last year I adjusted my saddle's tilt to address numb hands/sore
shoulders. The slightly nose-up position is great for my arms, but now
my butt seems to get sore more quickly than before. I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

I ride in a fairly upright position on my road bike - the handlebars
are slightly lower than the saddle - maybe 2". I'm about 5'10" and
weigh 145-150 lbs. I normally put in about 100-140 miles per week -
roughly 6-8 hours. Short rides are 1-1.5 hours, long rides, 3-4 hours.
My butt usually starts to hurt at the 1.5-2 hour mark. I shift my
position and get out of the saddle regularly during a ride, but it
delays the soreness by only 30 minutes or so.

Previous saddles: first was the stock saddle on my mountain bike
(Specialized Rock Hopper hardtail). When it wore out, I replaced it
with something slightly firmer, but it still had "gel" in the name.
(Both saddles were a bit brutal after 2-3 hours.) Then I bought a road
bike (Specialized Allez) and I've been using the saddle that came with
it. It's firmer than anything I had on my MTB, but still has a little
bit of padding and I suspect it's soft compared to some road saddles.

I had both bikes fit at the LBS, although neither was a full-price
professional bike fit. I'd like to try a number of saddles to get a
feel for different types, but bike shops are understandably reluctant
to let me "try" a saddle for a week.

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

A lot of saddle comfort has to do with where your sit bones actually end up
when you're riding - not how you sit on the saddle when you're just
adjusting it and trying it out stationary. Personally, I think that when a
nose up saddle tilt helps, it's probably because something else isn't quite
right. Most saddles have a kind of cradle. When the sits bones sit just
right in that cradle, you don't feel like you're sliding forward with the
saddle perfectly level. Depending on how the sit bones and the cradle work
together, you might have to move the saddle forward or rearward a bit to get
the right knee over pedal for you (and this also might be more forward or
more rearward than the standard rules of thumb call for). I have a suspicion
that many riders are being misinformed on the net and they have their saddle
too far back.

Pierre

"SlowRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hope you don't mind me hijacking the thread (online wheel-sucking, as
it were) but it sounds like you might have some reasonable advice for
me, too.

Last year I adjusted my saddle's tilt to address numb hands/sore
shoulders. The slightly nose-up position is great for my arms, but now
my butt seems to get sore more quickly than before. I don't experience
numbness, but the soreness is in the soft tissue between the sit bones.

I ride in a fairly upright position on my road bike - the handlebars
are slightly lower than the saddle - maybe 2". I'm about 5'10" and
weigh 145-150 lbs. I normally put in about 100-140 miles per week -
roughly 6-8 hours. Short rides are 1-1.5 hours, long rides, 3-4 hours.
My butt usually starts to hurt at the 1.5-2 hour mark. I shift my
position and get out of the saddle regularly during a ride, but it
delays the soreness by only 30 minutes or so.

Previous saddles: first was the stock saddle on my mountain bike
(Specialized Rock Hopper hardtail). When it wore out, I replaced it
with something slightly firmer, but it still had "gel" in the name.
(Both saddles were a bit brutal after 2-3 hours.) Then I bought a road
bike (Specialized Allez) and I've been using the saddle that came with
it. It's firmer than anything I had on my MTB, but still has a little
bit of padding and I suspect it's soft compared to some road saddles.

I had both bikes fit at the LBS, although neither was a full-price
professional bike fit. I'd like to try a number of saddles to get a
feel for different types, but bike shops are understandably reluctant
to let me "try" a saddle for a week.

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

-JR

A lot of saddle comfort has to do with where your sit bones actually end up
when you're riding - not how you sit on the saddle when you're just
adjusting it and trying it out stationary. Personally, I think that when a
nose up saddle tilt helps, it's probably because something else isn't quite
right. Most saddles have a kind of cradle. When the sits bones sit just
right in that cradle, you don't feel like you're sliding forward with the
saddle perfectly level. Depending on how the sit bones and the cradle work
together, you might have to move the saddle forward or rearward a bit to get
the right knee over pedal for you (and this also might be more forward or
more rearward than the standard rules of thumb call for). I have a suspicion
that many riders are being misinformed on the net and they have their saddle
too far back.

Pierre

your seat is on rails, so not only can you adjust the tilt of the nose,
you can also move your seat forwards and backwards...another
considertion is seat height. The bane of sitting on a bike and
rotating the pedals is friction. Friction=pain. Rule of thumb #1
wide seats look comfortable but aren't...their mass creates way too
many friction(=pain) points. contrary to what you might think is
reasonable, it is the thin and cut back saddles that provide the most
comfort...That means cut out high near the nose and along the length of
the saddle...which is why you can see the rails ...with this kind of
seat there is nothing there to chafe your thighs...the wearing of lycra
shorts means that contact of the seat will be more smooth, less
friction ..and that is good. #2 seat needs to be level or nose
slightly up....otherwise your body weight will have you sliding
forwards and you will put increased pressure on your arms, and palms
....which will put increased pressure on the ulnar nerve and cause
numbness/pain... #3 sliding the seat forwards or back on the rail can
customize your fit realationship of arm/hand realationship to the
handlebars...it also changes your perpendicular position in relation to
your pedal axis at the bottom bracket....common tradition indicates
that you want to have the center of your body axis directly over the
bottom bracket, so taller riders need their seats back further. I have
seen the bikes of some of the pro road racers, and some have bent seat
posts, so they can have their seat even further back than the straight
post allows. If your quads are in good shape, this will enhance your
power stoke...Once you are in the right position over the bottom
bracket...#4 seat height can do more to add/relieve butt pain than
almost anything else. The mistake of too low a seat is the most
common mistake of riders and is the main reson for seat fatigue, ..if
the seat is too low, your body and center of gravity is putting too
much pressure on your legs and forces the body back down on the
seat....too high...increased friction...the amazing thing is that it
may only be the difference of a couple millimeters...yes MILLImeters
between pain and comfort...solution...mark your post, set what you
think is your seat height...if uncomfortable...raise it a tiny bit.
ride aweek if still bad...repeat...a tiny bit higher ride a
week....you will not know if it is correct in just a day or so, your
body needs to adjust before you know for sure......it is time consuming
but worth the effort.....a short cut might be is to start just slightly
higher than what you think is your best
height.....ALTERNATIVE!!!!!....replace your seat binder bolt with a
quick release bolt from a moutain blike...and as you ride you can
change seat height on the fly....on the flat up. going uphill, lower it
for more power... do what ever makes you comfortable hope this helps
some...

I hae the Champion Flyer on my MTB. By choice, not circumstance (the
bike was custom assembled from the Rocky frame on on up). It's basically
a sprung version f the venerable B17 (which I have on my road tourer).
The B17 is and has been Brooks saddle's most popular leather for ????,
and for good reason.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Fred,

Consider the... Real Bike Seat for Real People! Go to www.realseat.com.

JEFF

SlowRider said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

Suggestions? I'm all ears (and butt). Is it even possible to ride for
3-4 hours without experiencing moderate-to-severe butt soreness?

Oh, sure it is.

That's good news! It sure helps to know it's possible.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you're still got too much excess padding under yer butt. A
firmer saddle might be the answer. I know it sounds crazy, but a saddle
can be firmer, yet more comfy, as the comfort usually isn't in the
padding, but the resilience of the shell. Most saddles these days seem
either overly padded or strangely shaped. :/ I ride vintage, but my
buddies all swear by Flites. Could be a fashion thing or they could be
actually comfy, I've not done major miles on one, so I'm not going to
endorse them personally.

I just got back from a quick ride. While I was out I tried to
concentrate on what I felt on my derriere. I did notice that the
padding pushed up a bit, right up the "taint" as you say. Hardly
noticeable early on, but eventually annoying. I thumbed the saddle
when I got home and it does have quite a bit of padding even though it
looks like a "real" road saddle.

Guess I know what my next step will be -- LBS, here I come...

What works for me are relatively flat top saddles with a relief cut. I'm really
liking Specialized BG stuff and almost anything by WTB that isn't heavily
padded. The right saddle will put almost all your seated weight on the sits
bones. Those can toughen up, the other parts can't.

Ron