Orwellian

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

o

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

add

CHEATING IS FAIRNESS

Or something.

I'm guessing you aren't a Oprah Winfrey-Dr. Phil TV watching person.
An inability to work with cognitive dissonance could get you labeled
as dysfunctional. I suggest reading Zippy every day for a while.
You'll get over it. Or develop an affinity for run down road side
diners...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

The idea of ending athletes careers because of using a drug that is
readilly available over the counter without prescription (like some
steroids) also seems Orwellian. The historic greats in cycling seem to
agree that you don't win the tour on mineral water. Limited use of
drugs is probably reasonable medical treatment for a person putting the
kind of stress on their bodies as professional athletes.

But anti-drug histeria is rampent. Probably encouraged by a flock of
wannabes who think they could be something if not for drug use on the
part of others...when in reality they could take enough EPO to turn
their veins to syrup and never come close.

Quoted message said:

The idea of ending athletes careers because of using a drug that is
readilly available over the counter without prescription (like some
steroids) also seems Orwellian. The historic greats in cycling seem to
agree that you don't win the tour on mineral water. Limited use of
drugs is probably reasonable medical treatment for a person putting the
kind of stress on their bodies as professional athletes.

But anti-drug histeria is rampent. Probably encouraged by a flock of
wannabes who think they could be something if not for drug use on the
part of others...when in reality they could take enough EPO to turn
their veins to syrup and never come close.

I didn't say anything about ending his career. I am pointing out how
ludicrous it is that his (and possibly the BCF is supporting him in
this from other things I've read) stated goal to be an example of
'cleanliness' and to be some kind of role model where performance
enhancing drugs are concerned.

As for the notion that you don't win the Tour on l'eau claire - you
would if that's what everyone was drinking. The l'eau claire reasoning
is [censored].

-RJ

I didn't say you wanted to end his career. The fact is that alot of
this over the top drug enforcement is ending careers.

My main point was: "Limited use of drugs is probably reasonable
medical treatment for a person putting the kind of stress on their
bodies as professional athletes." The point of the mineral water
reference is to show that there are some very knowledgeable people who
agree.

I think the drug policy should be based on allowing reasonable medical
care. But there is almost no discussion of this type. The automatic
assumption is all drugs are bad and should be banned.

I think the rule establishing a max hemocrat is a practical way to
protect the athlete. Rules which result in firing an athlete on the
basis of a test that has not been validated for that purpose are
"[censored]".

Quoted message said:

agree.

I think the drug policy should be based on allowing reasonable medical
care. But there is almost no discussion of this type. The automatic
assumption is all drugs are bad and should be banned.

There is discussion - its all about waivers and it just doesn't apply
to EPO cheats. David Millar is an EPO cheat.

I was at a Christmas party of a sub-group of the oncology unit where
my wife works and the issue came up very briefly (mostly cycling's
image compared to baseball's and football's reality). The comment by
one of the doctors was that anyone in their care that was using EPO 1)
would be told not to partake in extended strenuous exercise and 2)
wouldn't want to do it anyway.

I'm guessing that the only use of EPO as reasonable medical care would
be when the cyclist was essentially off the bike in recovery from
something serious and not in training or at the Tour prologue.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell said:

I'm guessing that the only use of EPO as reasonable medical care would
be when the cyclist was essentially off the bike in recovery from
something serious and not in training or at the Tour prologue.

Unless their dog was sick.

I've been called a cynic. But really, I'm not.

Bob Schwartz

Bob Schwartz said:

I've been called a cynic. But really, I'm not.

I've been called an [censored]. OK, maybe the parallel breaks down about
there.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Dumbass -

He didn't fail a test.

-RJ

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

CHEATING IS FAIRNESS

Or something.

You have to admit it makes sense. David Millar is a paragon of
sporting ethics -because- he cheated. And admitted to it.

....

Quoted message said:

Get it, kids? Because he doped, he is in a
better position to help you stay clean than someone who is clean.

I suppose it would be superfluous to mention Matt Decanio's name in
this context.

So I won't :-)

In article <[email hidden]>,

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

As for the notion that you don't win the Tour on l'eau claire - you
would if that's what everyone was drinking. The l'eau claire reasoning
is [censored].

But can you win the Tour on an eclair?

--
tanx,
Howard

The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

and like a famous person who "never failed a drug test". Or did he in 2000.
"ronaldo_jeremiah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

He didn't fail a test.

-RJ

Quoted message said:

But anti-drug histeria is rampent. Probably encouraged by a flock of
wannabes who think they could be something if not for drug use on the
part of others...when in reality they could take enough EPO to turn
their veins to syrup and never come close.

what do you think's gonna happen ? because inevitably his performance
isn't going to be as good without the dope, or at least not always good
when it needs to be.

pantani and vdb didn't react too well to racing after a doping type
scandal.

millar's the same type of mentally fragile guy, so when he goes through
some downturn -- like every rider does -- he's either going to start
doping, or have some kinda meltdown/episode/freakout.

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

Quoted message said:

As for the notion that you don't win the Tour on l'eau claire - you
would if that's what everyone was drinking. The l'eau claire reasoning
is [censored].

Howard Kveck said:

But can you win the Tour on an eclair?

A few panache eclairs followed by some gerolsteiner mineral water might do
the trick, but only if you're super motivated.

On 01/24/2006 10:09 AM, in article
[email hidden], "ronaldo_jeremiah"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hmmm ...

Quoted message said:

WAR IS PEACE

Bellum pax est

Quoted message said:

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

Libertas servitus est

Quoted message said:

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Ignoratio vis est

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

What's the matter? Don't you believe the Liberal credo?

Let me get this straight - you're telling us that the words from the
mouths of dopers is somehow worthy of space on this page?

Here's a clue that somehow you missed - athletic pursuits are
supposedly based on finding who is the best athlete, not who responds
best to the latest pharmacological wonders.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. The 'mineral water'
reference is a paraphrase of something said by Jacques Anquetil. Are
you telling me that the words of a legend of the sport do not belong on
this page but your words do?

At one time penicillin was the "Latest pharmacological wonder". If it
where found that penicillin enhanced performance would we insist that
riders never use it?

There is a knee-jerk reaction in thinking any sort of pharmacological
help is bad. I think drug policy should be oriented toward protecting
the athlete and not simply eliminating anything that may enhance
performance.

IF it were proven that some level of EPO use actually had health
benefits for the rider, than I would find its use acceptable.

Sports is already a competition to see who responds best to training,
diet, rest, etc. IF their is a healthy way to employ medication, I
see no problem with this becoming another part of athletic preparation.

Quoted message said:

Sports is already a competition to see who responds best to training,
diet, rest, etc. IF their is a healthy way to employ medication, I
see no problem with this becoming another part of athletic preparation.

Quoting Steve McQueen in the 'Magnificent Seven': "If, brother, if..."
They ended up with four dead bodies out of seven.

In any event, if and when that becomes possible, it won't apply to
Millar, an EPO cheat that was effectively caught and admitted to
cheating. You can't get the speed ticket overturned because two or
three years later they change the limit on a stretch of road. You get
your ticket on what's what the day you speed.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

ronaldo_jeremiah said:

As for the notion that you don't win the Tour on l'eau claire - you
would if that's what everyone was drinking. The l'eau claire reasoning
is [censored].

But can you win the Tour on an eclair?

Maybe a brevet? (from a "classifieds" listing):

<Lotus "Eclair", burgundy, touring bike, 18 speed, Mangaloy, 56cm,
Shimano Deore components, luggage rack, pannier rack, Ukai rims, photo
on request. Serious buyers only.>

No smiling in line, either! --D-y