Re: effective temperature?

If I don't stop, I'll warm up and stay warm for quite a while before
cooling off, but I will get cold even though I'm still swimming. If I
do intervals, the harder I go the more quickly I cool off. I assume
it's fatigue, but it's very unpleasant. I have no concept of Olivier's
*refreshing.* I call that wretched. I complain at the pool all the
time. And Larry: I think you have DSOT* syndrome.

rtk

*Distorted Sense Of Temperature

"Silver0l" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Quoted message said:

Ignoring psychological considerations, the sensation of temperature will
depend on the rate of heat loss (or gain) from the body to the water.

I don't agree.

If I swim fast and do a lot of efforts, my body temperature will rise, and
the heat loss will largely increase (because of the increased water - body
temperature difference, and because of the increased flow of water along

the

Quoted message said:

skin).

You should read a little more carefully - you seem to have missed these
parts when you snipped them:

"... the rate at which core heat is supplied to the surface of the body..."

and

"The supply of core heat to the surface of the body is related to the work
rate (and the length of time that such work has been done)."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And Larry: I think you have DSOT* syndrome.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

*Distorted Sense Of Temperature

You need to spend a summer in California and swim each weekend in one
of the 1 - 10 mile ocean races which attract hundreds and where
wetsuits are prohibited if you want to be official and where it can
drop below 60 degrees on any given day even in July.

http://www.spma.net/SPMAoceansched05.html

I agree entirely with Olivier about the joys of getting sweaty from a
good run before a nice cold water swim. I always do this when I've got
a cold water swim that isn't a race, such as my annual Christmas Day
biathlon.

- Larry

In El Paso, most public pools are kept at around 83-84. I am happy
swimming in this temperature, but a tad chili to get in. The
University's pool is kept at about 80 and it feels very cool to me and
pretty hard to get in. During xmas. The heater wasn't working properly
at the public pool where I usually swim. It was about 87. I was very
happy swimming in this temperature. For some reason, my body tolerates
high heat very well. I enjoy swimming in very warm water and I like
riding when it is very hot.

I have also swam in cool water in the 60s and ride in the 20s. I do ok,
but I don't like it that much. For some reason my body doesn't feel
very warm even after a hard effort. There are days that is in the 50s
and low 60s. We may be returning from a long ride with with average
speeds over 20 mph, strong pulls and hard efforts. Everybody around me
is hot and I still feel cool. With swimming, it is the same thing. I
may be finishing a long swim and I still feel cool. I've noticed that
when the room temperature is cool, my extremities are always cold. It
doesn't bother me at all, but when people touch my hands they always
tell me that they are cold.

I always wonder why this is so. Does anybody have a clue?

Andres

[email hidden]
wrote:
In El Paso, most public pools are kept at around 83-84.

me: AHHHHH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am happy swimming in this temperature, but a tad chili to get in.

me: Agreed!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The University's pool is kept at about 80 and it feels very cool to me
and
pretty hard to get in.

me: Same here, brrrrrrrr.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
During xmas. The heater wasn't working properly
at the public pool where I usually swim. It was about 87. I was very
happy swimming in this temperature.

Me, too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For some reason, my body tolerates
high heat very well. I enjoy swimming in very warm water and I like
riding when it is very hot.

me: perfection. Water should be soothing, not invigorating.

Larry, by the way, has Swiss - or was it Finnish, maybe Greenlander -
ancestry. If I were he, I'd suppress those genes and use his other
half and far more sensible heritage. The only advantage of swimming in
the icy ocean is to create more patients for Dr.Larry's colleagues.

rtk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only advantage of swimming in

the icy ocean is to create more patients <<

The last time I had a fight over this rather intemperate woman was over
my proposal to have a "retro" division for triathlons...no wetsuits;
only "standard," non-tricked out bicycles.

But now she has definitely gone too far. Attacking my water is almost
as bad as attacking my food.

Bring 'em on.

(who was it who said that?).

L.W. said:
........But now she has definitely gone too far. Attacking my water is
almost
as bad as attacking my food.

Bring 'em on.

MY water was attacked first! Lake Michigan was falsely declared
inhospitable, cold and inadequately salted compared to the Pacific.
Had he known, the temperature of my water is even visible. When the
wind blows from the west, picking up the pungency of the stockyards, it
smooths out the lake, making it crystal clear and a bit chilly. But
given a good wind from the east, a genuine surf works up, rolling in
the little corpses of perch and sunfish, a bit of texturally rich
greenery, and the occasional wayward turd. It is then that the lake is
warm and inviting, full of dips in its sandy floor, and, thankfully,
considerably less clarity. I learned to swim in those biologically
rich waters, practiced my Tarzan stroke, and searched underwater for
*sea* shells.

That Larry guy could see none of the beauty, but he at least should
have recognized the health benefits of such a rich environment. Every
August when a polio epidemic prevented the opening of the public
schools, we Chicagoans, inured by a childhood spent rubbing our noses
in our enhanced version of nature, were immune. Only the new kids from
the country wound up in iron lungs while we inhaled deeply of the
richness of the lake to our east, the stockyards to our west, and the
steel mills to our south.

rtk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only the new kids from

the country wound up in iron lungs while we inhaled deeply of the
richness of the lake to our east, the stockyards to our west, and the
steel mills to our south. <<

That was truly poetic. I need to send that to my Dad, who met my Mom
(newly graduated from high school) at a dance in Chicago in the summer
of '45, when he was just discharged from the Navy. They got married in
Feb, 1946, one day after my Mom's 18th birthday, and I baby-boomed
forth in the American Hosp in Chicago in April of '47. One week later,
they moved to Arizona, and I've only been back to my birth city for the
odd work-related meeting. My dad had a small, ancient wood "cabin
cruiser" moored on the Lake, and he swam in a number of open water
races while there (I'm just getting warmed up, but this really is a
pretty good swimming related story).

Anyway, my Dad had a rival at the time named Harold Henning, who is now
enshrined in the International Swimming Hall of Fame:

http://www.ishof.org/79hhenning.html

At one of their races (according to my Dad; yes, there are two sides to
every story), Henning was drafting on him and kept banging on him
during the race. Dad said that he kept trying to swim away, but he
wasn't able to shake him. Anyway, at one point they actually had some
sort of altercation which went beyond the usual bumping and banging. I
heard this story a long time ago, but I don't recall how it actually
ended up. Need to ask him that while there is still time to get the
oral history (he's going on 93, but still swims an hour a day).

- LW

L.W. asserts:
..............
But now she has definitely gone too far. Attacking my water is almost
as bad as attacking my food.
........

I'm not done with the good Doc yet. He mentions food, one of the great
interests of my life; not so much eating the stuff, but cooking.

Never would I allow health or sport concerns to stand between me and my
love of beautiful food. Diet is a four letter word. If I were forced to
choose a single guru, Escoffier would win hands down. Away from home,
I'm no purist and can eat junk with no guilt, but no packages, frozen or
otherwise enter my kitchen. And no rules either. Here's an example of
a recent dinner.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/June13/Birthday.html
Fortunate for Larry, there's no photo of the little cheese we had called
Poudre Puff from Wisconsin that is a close rival of anything French from
the Loire valley. Too bad I didn't have my camera at hand a year ago at
our anniversary. I made 20 Graeco/Turko little dishes as far from the
world of Gu and Gatorade as you get, and before the wild kebabs of lamb
and swordfish and baklavas and other mid-eastern delights.

Re: your going to ask your father for more stories while there's time.
I've just started making a DVD of a day in the life of my husband which
will cut away via flashbacks to old photos, little movies and slide
shows. I follow him around from here to his office to the pool and so
forth making little movies which I edit like mad. You might consider
holding a camera while your father talks. My Canon takes movies for as
long as the 1 GB card allows, and in as large a file as a camcorder. I
do an ambitious family DVD every year, but this one will be more so.
You can hand down only one album, but you give many discs, with the
understanding they must be converted to the new technology from time to
time. Eventually someone will thank you, long after you can hear them.

rtk

rtk said:

L.W. said:
.......But now she has definitely gone too far. Attacking my water is
almost
as bad as attacking my food.

Bring 'em on.

MY water was attacked first! Lake Michigan was falsely declared
inhospitable, cold and inadequately salted compared to the Pacific.
Had he known, the temperature of my water is even visible. When the
wind blows from the west, picking up the pungency of the stockyards, it
smooths out the lake, making it crystal clear and a bit chilly. But
given a good wind from the east, a genuine surf works up, rolling in
the little corpses of perch and sunfish, a bit of texturally rich
greenery, and the occasional wayward turd. It is then that the lake is
warm and inviting, full of dips in its sandy floor, and, thankfully,
considerably less clarity. I learned to swim in those biologically
rich waters, practiced my Tarzan stroke, and searched underwater for
*sea* shells.

That Larry guy could see none of the beauty, but he at least should
have recognized the health benefits of such a rich environment. Every
August when a polio epidemic prevented the opening of the public
schools, we Chicagoans, inured by a childhood spent rubbing our noses
in our enhanced version of nature, were immune. Only the new kids from
the country wound up in iron lungs while we inhaled deeply of the
richness of the lake to our east, the stockyards to our west, and the
steel mills to our south.

rtk

Ruth,
I truly can't believe it--you and I were separated at birth. I, too, am
a Great Lakes girl, but I'm from the West side of Lake Erie. How weird
that our births were so far apart in years....

I think some of your differences of opinion with Larry may have to do
with the differing mass to surface area ratios that different people
have. I suspect you have a lot of surface area relative to your mass,
and therefore chill easily. I have a relatively small surface area
relative to my considerable, (but shrinking) mass, and therefore don't
get as cold.

And Larry is half Finnish, which may explain some of this cold tolerance.
Madelaine