Things I learned last time...

Kids

maguire said:

3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't toally control
the food in my environment since I have kids who need brown rice, squash,
etc. in their diets. If I catch myself nibbling on the kids' cereal as I
clear up after breakfast I can stop...the day isn't blown...the hour isn't
blown...the WOE isn't blown.

Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need protein,
healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience, there is no good
reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps the least nutritious
breakfast food choice I can imagine.

Quoted message said:

4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal (YMMV, it
worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a stall
(especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.

Avoid 'stalls' and 'wooshes' - strictly follow a plan and weigh
yourself once a month.

Quoted message said:

6 - WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER

7 - Artificial sweeteners other than Splenda give me PMS and headaches.

8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a reason.

julie

maguire wrote:
:: As I prepare to restart (a vomiting toddler this weekend made
:: shopping an impossibility, I'm shooting for Monday now) I am
:: reviewing my lessons learned last time and (mostly for my own
:: record) am going to list the things I remember learning. I also
:: recognize that I've got more to learn in order to make this happen
:: faster and easier this time so I can get my new setpoint down in the
:: 120's instead of the 170's I'm constantly seeing.
::
:: 1 - A week of 20g is enough to kill my appetite. A week of no
:: appetite is enough to put my body in starvation mode and stall me.
:: I need to hover in the 25/30g range to keep the scale moving without
:: jumpstarting the cravings.

If your appetite is suppressed for long enough, you'll eventually lose
weight. You'll probably lose faster and be happier if you don't stay at 20,
though.

::
:: 2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check
:: EVERY package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.

Yes!

::
:: 3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't toally
:: control the food in my environment since I have kids who need brown
:: rice, squash, etc. in their diets. If I catch myself nibbling on
:: the kids' cereal as I clear up after breakfast I can stop...the day
:: isn't blown...the hour isn't blown...the WOE isn't blown.

Nibbling adds up. Train yourself to not nibble. Let that be a goal.

::
:: 4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal
:: (YMMV, it worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

This sounds like rationalization. Be careful here. If you're not working
out often with a combination of cardio and weights, I don't recommend this.
'Can' and 'will' are not the same, too.

::
:: 5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a
:: stall (especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.

If you say so. Some think a stall is 1 month to six weeks.

::
:: 6 - WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER
::

What does that do? While I think drinking might help in some ways, I don't
think it is really necessary to ensure weight loss.

:: 7 - Artificial sweeteners other than Splenda give me PMS and
:: headaches.

Good you know that.

::
:: 8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a
:: reason.

Good you know that.

9 - Post here regularly.

In article <[email hidden]>,

joshv said:

Kids

maguire said:

3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't toally control
the food in my environment since I have kids who need brown rice, squash,
etc. in their diets. If I catch myself nibbling on the kids' cereal as I
clear up after breakfast I can stop...the day isn't blown...the hour isn't
blown...the WOE isn't blown.

Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need protein,
healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience, there is no good
reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps the least nutritious
breakfast food choice I can imagine.

I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with brown
rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy parts of a
normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my daughter's gets enough
carbs, she loses weight. No she is not anorexic but she's always been
very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult to keep her at or above 100#. So,
in addition to an extremely diverse diet, I make sure to stuff her with
the healthiest carbs I can find.

Roger Zoul said:

Nibbling adds up. Train yourself to not nibble. Let that be a goal.

I am generally not a nibbler, it's just a place I see potential temptation
since I will be faced with several carb options daily.

Quoted message said:

:: 4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal
:: (YMMV, it worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

This sounds like rationalization. Be careful here. If you're not working
out often with a combination of cardio and weights, I don't recommend this.
'Can' and 'will' are not the same, too.

I know that can and will are not the same, it is "will" in my experience
with my body, I said "can" since I know that it won't work that way for
everyone out there and this is being posted publicly. As for the
rationalization, I don't need to rationalize the choice to eat a higher carb
meal occasionally... It's a choice, sometimes good, sometimes not so good,
but a choice I may make from time to time. The only person who it impacts
is me.

Quoted message said:

:: 5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a
:: stall (especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.

If you say so. Some think a stall is 1 month to six weeks.

This is my own experience with my own body. 2 weeks of no movement, a month
of no movement, or more, but fretting over a day or two is silly and
counterproductive. After many many stalls I know that if I'm not losing
after 2 weeks I can keep doing the same things indefinitely and continue to
maintain or I can do something different and get back to making progress.

Quoted message said:

:: 6 - WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER
What does that do? While I think drinking might help in some ways, I don't
think it is really necessary to ensure weight loss.

If I drink 60+oz daily when not low carbing I feel ok. If I don't I feel
icky, my7 fingers go numb, etc. With MS the effects of dehydration are
extremely serious and instead of just feeling dry, I might lose the use of a
hands or an eye instead. When low carbing, the need for water is much
greater because of the diuretic effects. Also, since my youngest is still
nursing some, I am even *more* prone to dehydration. All in all I just
really need to remember my water every day.

Quoted message said:

:: 7 - Artificial sweeteners other than Splenda give me PMS and
:: headaches.

Good you know that.

::
:: 8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a
:: reason.

Good you know that.

9 - Post here regularly.

Good one, thanks!

julie

#2 doesn't always work, many labels count the carbs from fiber even though
your body doesn't.

In news:[email hidden],
maguire <[email hidden]> stated
| As I prepare to restart (a vomiting toddler this weekend made
| shopping an impossibility, I'm shooting for Monday now) I am
| reviewing my lessons learned last time and (mostly for my own record)
| am going to list the things I remember learning. I also recognize
| that I've got more to learn in order to make this happen faster and
| easier this time so I can get my new setpoint down in the 120's
| instead of the 170's I'm constantly seeing.
|
| 1 - A week of 20g is enough to kill my appetite. A week of no
| appetite is enough to put my body in starvation mode and stall me. I
| need to hover in the 25/30g range to keep the scale moving without
| jumpstarting the cravings.
|
| 2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check EVERY
| package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.
|
| 3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't toally
| control the food in my environment since I have kids who need brown
| rice, squash, etc. in their diets. If I catch myself nibbling on the
| kids' cereal as I clear up after breakfast I can stop...the day isn't
| blown...the hour isn't blown...the WOE isn't blown.
|
| 4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal (YMMV,
| it worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.
|
| 5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a stall
| (especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.
|
| 6 - WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER
|
| 7 - Artificial sweeteners other than Splenda give me PMS and
| headaches.
|
| 8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a
| reason.
|
| julie

maguire said:

As I prepare to restart

Why did you stop? It's important to try avoiding that in the
future.

Quoted message said:

1 - A week of 20g is enough to kill my appetite. A week of no appetite is
enough to put my body in starvation mode and stall me. I need to hover in
the 25/30g range to keep the scale moving without jumpstarting the cravings.

Wow that's a tight range. Very few people need to stay that
low for good loss rates. Maybe ties into your thing about stalls.

Quoted message said:

2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check EVERY
package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.

Excellent point. The best foods don't come with labels, though.

Quoted message said:

4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal (YMMV, it
worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

And that's a terrible danger. When a cheat triggers a whoosh
it is so tempting to get into a horrible feedback loop - Stay
too low, get frustrated, cheat, whoosh, go back too low.

It works to do an occasional refeed with the one carby food
you consider the most boring possible carb, but that just
reduces the risk doesn't eliminate the risk.

And this also ties in with your low carb level and wrong stall
definition.

Quoted message said:

5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a stall
(especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.

There are specific reasons that Dr Atkins defined a stall as
4+ weeks in ketosis without a new low and without a lost
inch. It's about the time scale of fat loss and the uncertainly
caused by water retention swings. Pick any shorter time
period and you'll be likely to end up at too low a carb level.

Quoted message said:

8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a reason.

If they are caffeine related then they aren't actually migraines
most likely. There are several types of headaches. Migraines
usually include vision changes (spots, light sensativity, etc).
Mine also include wanting cold.

Good news about real migraines - Lots of folks report not getting
any while low carbing. The only time I've ever had one since
starting was a month off the wagon.

Caffeine detox headaches suck though, as strong as migraines
but different other symptoms.

My SO is that way, he has never been fat in his life. He eats meals,
doesn't snack between. When I first started low carb he lost weight he
didn't need to lose so now I make sure to make him some rice or potatoes a
few times a week. It's not difficult, I do quite a few curries and stir
fries and just eat mine plain and give him rice.

In news:[email hidden],
Emma Thackery <[email hidden]> stated

|
| I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with
| brown rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy
| parts of a normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my daughter's
| gets enough carbs, she loses weight. No she is not anorexic but
| she's always been very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult to keep her at
| or above 100#. So, in addition to an extremely diverse diet, I make
| sure to stuff her with the healthiest carbs I can find.

Emma Thackery <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> In article <[email hidden]>,
:> "joshv" <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:>> Kids
:>> maguire wrote:
:>> > 3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't
:>> > toally control the food in my environment since I have kids who
:>> > need brown rice, squash, etc. in their diets. If I catch myself
:>> > nibbling on the kids' cereal as I clear up after breakfast I can
:>> > stop...the day isn't blown...the hour isn't blown...the WOE isn't
:>> > blown.
:>>
:>> Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need protein,
:>> healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience, there is no
:>> good reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps the least
:>> nutritious breakfast food choice I can imagine.
:>
:>
:> I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with
:> brown
:> rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy parts of
:> a normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my daughter's gets
:> enough
:> carbs, she loses weight. No she is not anorexic but she's always
:> been
:> very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult to keep her at or above 100#.
:> So,
:> in addition to an extremely diverse diet, I make sure to stuff her
:> with
:> the healthiest carbs I can find.

Stuff? You stuff your daugther?

Technically speaking, no one carb is healthier than another. The problem is
eating them as part of a hypercaloric diet, or eating too many if you're a
diabetic.

I think Joshv was saying that one doesn't "need" those foods, not that they
are necessarily bad. I agree 100% on the cereal, though. I don't see a
problem with kids eating rice and squash. If that's all they eat, I doubt
seriously if they ever become fat (assuming they aren't being stuffed,
though). 🙂

maguire <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> On 1/17/06 3:49 PM, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>>
:>> Nibbling adds up. Train yourself to not nibble. Let that be a goal.
:>
:> I am generally not a nibbler, it's just a place I see potential
:> temptation since I will be faced with several carb options daily.
:>
:>> :: 4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal
:>> :: (YMMV, it worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.
:>>
:>> This sounds like rationalization. Be careful here. If you're not
:>> working out often with a combination of cardio and weights, I don't
:>> recommend this. 'Can' and 'will' are not the same, too.
:>
:> I know that can and will are not the same, it is "will" in my
:> experience with my body,

Under what precise conditions can you be sure it is always "will"? You
certainly didn't state one in your comment. You cannot say that a stall will
always be followed by a whoosh if you eat one carby-meal. Sometimes yes,
others, no. That is generally a hit-n-miss deal. Most LCers encounter this
at one time or another.

I said "can" since I know that it won't
:> work that way for everyone out there and this is being posted
:> publicly. As for the rationalization, I don't need to rationalize
:> the choice to eat a higher carb meal occasionally... It's a choice,
:> sometimes good, sometimes not so good, but a choice I may make from
:> time to time. The only person who it impacts is me.

It's still a rationalization, even if it only impacts you.

:>
:>> :: 5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a
:>> :: stall (especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.
:>>
:>> If you say so. Some think a stall is 1 month to six weeks.
:>
:> This is my own experience with my own body. 2 weeks of no movement,
:> a month of no movement, or more, but fretting over a day or two is
:> silly and counterproductive. After many many stalls I know that if
:> I'm not losing after 2 weeks I can keep doing the same things
:> indefinitely and continue to maintain or I can do something
:> different and get back to making progress.

Okay. I personally never stall. I just eat too much. 🙂

:>
:>> :: 6 - WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER
:>> What does that do? While I think drinking might help in some ways,
:>> I don't think it is really necessary to ensure weight loss.
:>
:> If I drink 60+oz daily when not low carbing I feel ok. If I don't I
:> feel icky, my7 fingers go numb, etc. With MS the effects of
:> dehydration are extremely serious and instead of just feeling dry, I
:> might lose the use of a hands or an eye instead. When low carbing,
:> the need for water is much greater because of the diuretic effects.
:> Also, since my youngest is still nursing some, I am even *more*
:> prone to dehydration. All in all I just really need to remember my
:> water every day.

Well, if you have MS and drinking that water helps, I suggest you continue.
🙂 But I don't think it does a whole lot for weight loss.

:>
:>
:>> :: 7 - Artificial sweeteners other than Splenda give me PMS and
:>> :: headaches.
:>>
:>> Good you know that.
:>>
:>> ::
:>> :: 8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now
:>> :: for a reason.
:>>
:>> Good you know that.
:>>
:>> 9 - Post here regularly.
:>
:> Good one, thanks!
:>
:> julie

Doug Freyburger said:

maguire said:

As I prepare to restart

Why did you stop? It's important to try avoiding that in the
future.

PREGNANCY -- I didn't arbitrarily fall off the horse, I dismounted after
much planning 😉 My earlier post explained that in the past 4 years since I
last posted here regularly I've had 2 kids and gained 15#. 15# for 4 years
of carbs isn't bad, but it's not the direction I'd like my weight to be
heading and I never did get the rest of the way to my goal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check EVERY
package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.

Excellent point. The best foods don't come with labels, though.

I agree, I use the usda database quite a bit for unknown specs on natural
foods.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal (YMMV, it
worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

And that's a terrible danger. When a cheat triggers a whoosh
it is so tempting to get into a horrible feedback loop - Stay
too low, get frustrated, cheat, whoosh, go back too low.

It works to do an occasional refeed with the one carby food
you consider the most boring possible carb, but that just
reduces the risk doesn't eliminate the risk.

And this also ties in with your low carb level and wrong stall
definition.

My weight loss limit of 30g is the limit I've found where I don't crave and
I continue to lose. My "wrong" stall definition is what I observed to be
the case in MY body, and the carby stall breaker is something I only ever
had to do twice in 40#, it's not like I needed to "cheat" (your word, but
how is it cheating, except cheating myself out of reaching a healthier
weight sooner?) or take a month off (as you mention doing) every few months
or anything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5 - 1 day IS NOT a stall, 3 days IS NOT a stall, 7 days IS NOT a stall
(especially around my period). 2 weeks IS a stall.

There are specific reasons that Dr Atkins defined a stall as
4+ weeks in ketosis without a new low and without a lost
inch. It's about the time scale of fat loss and the uncertainly
caused by water retention swings. Pick any shorter time
period and you'll be likely to end up at too low a carb level.

As I said in the beginning of my post, I am reviewing by my own experience,
4+ weeks in ketosis would likely put me in the hospital since my caloric
intake while in ketosis fell below 200/day without hunger, so Atkins'
definition is irrelevant to me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

8 - My migraines are caffeine related...I am totally decaf now for a reason.

If they are caffeine related then they aren't actually migraines
most likely. There are several types of headaches. Migraines
usually include vision changes (spots, light sensativity, etc).
Mine also include wanting cold.

Good news about real migraines - Lots of folks report not getting
any while low carbing. The only time I've ever had one since
starting was a month off the wagon.

Caffeine detox headaches suck though, as strong as migraines
but different other symptoms.

I know the difference between migraines and headaches, and so does my
neurologist. I've been decaf for nearly a year... Last month I was given
1/2 cup of real coffee instead of decaf, the next 2 days I had migraine
(seeing auras, noise sensitivity, nausea, etc. try that while caring for 2
kids under 4!) Severe caffeine toxicity? Migraine? Either way I am not a
functioning human being if I consume caffeine.

julie

I want my kids to grow up without a complex about food. They eat their
protein, healthy fats, and vegetables (yellow squash for instance), which
will not cause any temptations since they are fine for LC... they also eat
fruits, carbier veggies, and other complex carbs (brown rice for instance)
which is where my temptations will be.

Cereal is one of the foods (like cheese and crumbles of hamburger) that are
easy for my toddler to feed herself for a snack without any help. She is
very independent and much prefers to do it herself as much as possible. I
will continue to support her independence and don't see a problem with whole
grain unsweetened cereal as long as she enjoys it.
julie

joshv said:

Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need protein,
healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience, there is no good
reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps the least nutritious
breakfast food choice I can imagine.

maguire said:

I want my kids to grow up without a complex about food. They eat their
protein, healthy fats, and vegetables (yellow squash for instance), which
will not cause any temptations since they are fine for LC... they also eat
fruits, carbier veggies, and other complex carbs (brown rice for instance)
which is where my temptations will be.

Cereal is one of the foods (like cheese and crumbles of hamburger) that are
easy for my toddler to feed herself for a snack without any help. She is
very independent and much prefers to do it herself as much as possible. I
will continue to support her independence and don't see a problem with whole
grain unsweetened cereal as long as she enjoys it.
julie

I remember how proud my toddler goddaughter was when I put long handled
forward facing faucets in the downstairs bathroom and a small footstool.

With these, she could get her own drink of water, and she refused
firmly, any and all attempts to help her. She would refuse a cup of
water if she didn't get it herself. :-)

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

maguire said:

As I prepare to restart

Why did you stop? It's important to try avoiding that in the
future.

Quoted message said:

1 - A week of 20g is enough to kill my appetite. A week of no appetite
is
enough to put my body in starvation mode and stall me. I need to hover
in
the 25/30g range to keep the scale moving without jumpstarting the
cravings.

Wow that's a tight range. Very few people need to stay that
low for good loss rates. Maybe ties into your thing about stalls.

Quoted message said:

2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check EVERY
package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.

Excellent point. The best foods don't come with labels, though.

Quoted message said:

4 - A stall can be followed by a whoosh if I do ONE carby-meal (YMMV, it
worked for me). That's a single meal, not a week.

And that's a terrible danger. When a cheat triggers a whoosh
it is so tempting to get into a horrible feedback loop - Stay
too low, get frustrated, cheat, whoosh, go back too low.

I personally like the idea about taking a week off every 4 weeks, due to
leptin or whatever. Taking a break on any diet is protein sparing, plus it
makes it easier. But needless to say it has to be planned and your plan must
be followed to the second. If you define that you may eat carbs for a day,
then at midnight or whenever the cutoff is, no carbs!!! When you go off your
diet be sure to incorporate (hard) weight training. The thing is that sooner
or later you are going to have to incorporate carbs back in your diet
anyway. Perhaps you could use that week to practice your maintenance stage.

On the other hand, many people's insulin resistance or whatever might not
allow this. They may not be able to eat "normally" in the presence of
carbohydrates and overeat and undo weeks of hard work. In that case,
continue doing what you have been doing.

Everyone is different afterall.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Emma Thackery <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> In article
:> <[email hidden]>, "joshv"
:> <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:>> maguire wrote:
:>> > 3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't
:>> > toally control the food in my environment since I have kids who
:>> > need brown rice, squash, etc. in their diets. If I catch
:>> > myself nibbling on the kids' cereal as I clear up after
:>> > breakfast I can stop...the day isn't blown...the hour isn't
:>> > blown...the WOE isn't blown.
:>>
:>> Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need
:>> protein, healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience,
:>> there is no good reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps
:>> the least nutritious breakfast food choice I can imagine.
:>
:>
:> I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with
:> brown rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy
:> parts of a normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my
:> daughter's gets enough carbs, she loses weight. No she is not
:> anorexic but she's always been very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult
:> to keep her at or above 100#. So, in addition to an extremely
:> diverse diet, I make sure to stuff her with the healthiest carbs I
:> can find.

<snippage>

Quoted message said:

Technically speaking, no one carb is healthier than another.

We're not talking about carb molecules in isolation but, rather, in a
variety of foods. So, technically speaking, that's irrelevant. 😉

Quoted message said:

...The problem is eating them as part of a hypercaloric diet, or
eating too many if you're a diabetic.

That's not what Joshv said. He said " Kids don't need brown rice,
squash, and cereal. They need protein, healthy fats and vegetables."
His reference was broad rather than specific. He implied that brown
rice and squash are unhealthy, and for some reason, he seems to
disregard that squash are indeed vegetables.

Quoted message said:

I think Joshv was saying that one doesn't "need" those foods, not
that they are necessarily bad.

No, what he said was that kids don't need brown rice and squash. And I
suppose that kids could get along without them and often do. But they
are in fact good food that are part of a diverse diet for healthy
individuals who don't have weight management problems. To imply
otherwise, as he did whilst taking a cheap shot at Julie, without at
least some sort of explanation or evidence is not very nice. This is,
after all, alt.SUPPORT.diet.low-carb.... leastways I thought it was.

Yes that is exactly our situation with my daughter.

In article <[email hidden]>,

FOB said:

My SO is that way, he has never been fat in his life. He eats meals,
doesn't snack between. When I first started low carb he lost weight he
didn't need to lose so now I make sure to make him some rice or potatoes a
few times a week. It's not difficult, I do quite a few curries and stir
fries and just eat mine plain and give him rice.

In news:[email hidden],
Emma Thackery <[email hidden]> stated

|
| I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with
| brown rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy
| parts of a normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my daughter's
| gets enough carbs, she loses weight. No she is not anorexic but
| she's always been very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult to keep her at
| or above 100#. So, in addition to an extremely diverse diet, I make
| sure to stuff her with the healthiest carbs I can find.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug Freyburger said:

maguire said:

2 - Not all labels allow us to subtract the fiber. I must check EVERY
package and do a quick 4, 4, 9 calculation.

Excellent point. The best foods don't come with labels, though.

I'm not clear on the label thing and the 4,4,9 calculation. Could
someone please explain that to me? I just thought you could subtract
fiber grams from carb grams to get net carbs. Is it a labeling problem?

[...]

Emma Thackery said:

No, what he said was that kids don't need brown rice and squash. And I
suppose that kids could get along without them and often do. But they
are in fact good food that are part of a diverse diet for healthy
individuals who don't have weight management problems. To imply
otherwise, as he did whilst taking a cheap shot at Julie, without at
least some sort of explanation or evidence is not very nice. This is,
after all, alt.SUPPORT.diet.low-carb.... leastways I thought it was.

Thanks Emma.
julie

Fat has approx. 9 calories per gram, carbs and protein have approx 4 per
gram... If a label says there are a X calories per serving and F grams of
fat, C grams of carbohydrates, and P grams of protein then Fx9 + Cx4 + Px4
should equal X...but if the label has NOT already deducted the fiber from
the carb count then fat+carb+protein calories will be significantly (approx.
the amount of fiber grams x4) higher than the total calories reported.
Fiber is not digested and thus has no calories, and can be deducted from
the total carb count for our purposes. 5 years ago the label laws in the US
were very vague so even on US manufactured foods there was no set rule as to
whether or not the fiber was deductible by the consumer for a carb
count...from reading here it seems as if things are quite a bit more unified
with US labels now, but

Example:
Label on a can of Cannellini Beans
80 calories per 1/2 cup serving
0g fat
18g carbohydrates
7g fiber
6g protein

So would a serving count as 18g carbs or 11g carbs?

0x9=0
18x4= 72
6x4= 24
-----------
Total calories = 96...so (even though the number aren't precise due to
rounding decimals) the fiber deduction has not already been taken so one
cane safely figure 11g carbs per serving (though I'd figure 12 to be safe,
again due to rounding).

Clear as mud, isn't it?
julie

Emma Thackery said:

I'm not clear on the label thing and the 4,4,9 calculation. Could
someone please explain that to me? I just thought you could subtract
fiber grams from carb grams to get net carbs. Is it a labeling problem?

[...]

Emma Thackery wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Emma Thackery <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::: In article
::::: <[email hidden]>, "joshv"
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: maguire wrote:
::::::: 3 - Operate on a 1 bite at a time basis. This time I can't
::::::: toally control the food in my environment since I have kids who
::::::: need brown rice, squash, etc. in their diets. If I catch
::::::: myself nibbling on the kids' cereal as I clear up after
::::::: breakfast I can stop...the day isn't blown...the hour isn't
::::::: blown...the WOE isn't blown.
::::::
:::::: Kids don't need brown rice, squash, and cereal. They need
:::::: protein, healthy fats and vegetables. Other than convenience,
:::::: there is no good reason to feed your kids cereal - it's perhaps
:::::: the least nutritious breakfast food choice I can imagine.
:::::
:::::
::::: I can't help but wonder what you can possibly think is wrong with
::::: brown rice and squash for non-dieting children? Both are healthy
::::: parts of a normal, diverse diet. If I don't make sure my
::::: daughter's gets enough carbs, she loses weight. No she is not
::::: anorexic but she's always been very thin. At 5'5", it's difficult
::::: to keep her at or above 100#. So, in addition to an extremely
::::: diverse diet, I make sure to stuff her with the healthiest carbs I
::::: can find.
::
:: <snippage>
::
::: Technically speaking, no one carb is healthier than another.
::
:: We're not talking about carb molecules in isolation but, rather, in a
:: variety of foods. So, technically speaking, that's irrelevant. 😉

There was a statement about that included the phrase "healthiest carbs".
Hence, one is talking about carbs if you phrase it that way. That's why I
responding with "Technically speaking" rather than simply disagreeing. Kids
can get some amount of carbs even from pie. That isn't necessarily
unhealthy, either.

::
::: ...The problem is eating them as part of a hypercaloric diet, or
::: eating too many if you're a diabetic.
::
:: That's not what Joshv said.

I didn't say that Joshv said that. I said that.

:: He said " Kids don't need brown rice,
:: squash, and cereal. They need protein, healthy fats and vegetables."
:: His reference was broad rather than specific. He implied that brown
:: rice and squash are unhealthy, and for some reason, he seems to
:: disregard that squash are indeed vegetables.

IMO, his statement referred to rice, squash, and cereal because that's what
Julie wrote, implying that she herself has problems with them. I think that
motivated his comment. But we'll leave it to him to set the record
straight.

I don't think that his statement implies that rice and squash are unhealthy,
either, but they are not big part of any LC diet. And some veggies are
indeed high in carbs, so merely being a vegetable is not a blind blessing.
Also, the attack was on cereal, not really on rice and squash, and Julie
made no reference to the type of cereal she keeps in her house until later
in this thread. What was one supposed to think? She's going to have
problems maintaining a WOE because she keeps sugary cereal in house - for
the kids, and she nibbles? If you ask me, that motivated the entire
comment.

::
::: I think Joshv was saying that one doesn't "need" those foods, not
::: that they are necessarily bad.
::
:: No, what he said was that kids don't need brown rice and squash.

They don't. You cannot deny that. There is no single food that kids need.
Personally, I don't see a problem with kids eating brown rice or squash, but
most cereals are just BAD, BAD, BAD.

:: And I suppose that kids could get along without them and often do.

You suppose?

:: But they are in fact good food that are part of a diverse diet for
:: healthy individuals who don't have weight management problems. To
:: imply otherwise, as he did whilst taking a cheap shot at Julie,

I don't think he did that. But on a LC diet newsgroup, pointing out that
people don't "need" certain foods is not a inappropriate. I also don't
think it was a cheap shot, either, just a statement.

:: without at least some sort of explanation or evidence is not very
:: nice. This is, after all, alt.SUPPORT.diet.low-carb.... leastways I
:: thought it was.

SUPPORT comes in many forms. Telling people the truth is one form of
support. Being nice doesn't have to be support, or least, not good support.