Finally fixed

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

That is a 559 BSD wheel.

Is that FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD? I'm afraid I haven't been keeping
track; I haven't used Berkeley Unix since 4.3.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

Tony Raven said:

bugbear said:

Care to answer this...

Does the pedalling action feel different to
a freewheel bike when travelling on the flat
at a constant speed?

Definitely.

I agree (I have a fixed).

Which is VERY odd - for this to be true
(which I, and others in the thread believe)
one must conclude that on a freewheel bike
travelling on the flat there is NOT
always pressure on the pedals.

If there were there would be no discernable
difference between fixed and free on the flat
at constant speed.

BugBear

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

That is a 559 BSD wheel.

Is that FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD? I'm afraid I haven't been keeping
track; I haven't used Berkeley Unix since 4.3.

Bead Seat Diameter, ie a standard MTB 26" wheel. ERTRO 559 and so on.

The astonishing thing is that it rides reasonably nicely.

...d

David Martin said:

And how to turn a silk purse into a sows ear..

http://www.compbio.dundee.ac.uk/~dmamartin/fixed/fixed.html

Your kitchen is in a right state. It's worse than mine! :-)

Quoted message said:

Several points to note:
1. one of the pedal spindles is bent. That makes like interesting but
you get used to it.
2. Old style weinman levers are uncomfortable, especially the suicide
lever attachment spigot.
3. The saddle is a cheap plastic thing.

All the above can be fixed for minimal outlay and will vastly improve
the experience.

Quoted message said:

And the ride itself. The bike behaved flawlessly. Riding uphill was
fine - even having to stop at the traffic lights and getting used to
braking by backard pressure. Possibly a bit light on the gearing but
that is easy to fix (reshuffle the cogs.)
I had no problem with junctions but my brain was going overdrive
reminding me that it was different. I never really relaxed. Coming back
down on a wee brae on which I can nudge the MTB past 30 if I feel up to
it, the bike takes on a mind of its own, deciding that my legs are not
going fast enough and throws them off. Sensibly I don't try to get the
feet back on until after I have applied the front brake to wake the
dead (damp road, chrome rims SNM) bring the pedals back to a
pace at which my feet can comfortably reconnect. How do you go downhill
on these things?

You learn to pedal very fast. When you are clipped in you have no
choice!

Even more fun used to be getting your feet into toe clips when pulling
away. Oh and I once got a right ticking off from a member of the
constabulary for stopping just past him when he was indicating for me
to stop. I explained that it would be rather better for me to stop
with the RH pedal at two o'clock as then I wouldn't fall over - this
was before I mastered the art of trackstands in any vaguely horizontal
pedal position.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil Cook said:

David Martin said:

And how to turn a silk purse into a sows ear..

http://www.compbio.dundee.ac.uk/~dmamartin/fixed/fixed.html

Your kitchen is in a right state. It's worse than mine! :-)

Quoted message said:

Several points to note:
1. one of the pedal spindles is bent. That makes like interesting but
you get used to it.
2. Old style weinman levers are uncomfortable, especially the suicide
lever attachment spigot.
3. The saddle is a cheap plastic thing.

All the above can be fixed for minimal outlay and will vastly improve
the experience.

Yup, I'm sure they will. I am thinking of removing the crankset and bb
and replacing those with my old Ultegra double, and putting 39/42 rings
on it. Then I'll shuffle the gears on the back to give me two that are
3 teeth apart so I get eg. 42x14 and 39x17 on the same chain length
without having too much faff. Must find a new nut for the axle though.
I'm sure I have one somewhere.

I have an old pair of Look pedals and can put those on. Maybe it is
time to get some shiny new ones for my road bike..

As for the handlebars. I might flip them over and saw them off to make
a 'lo-pro' type thingy. Then all that is left to find is a saddle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do you go downhill
on these things?

You learn to pedal very fast. When you are clipped in you have no
choice!

Hmmm...

...d

bugbear said:

I agree (I have a fixed).

Which is VERY odd - for this to be true
(which I, and others in the thread believe)
one must conclude that on a freewheel bike
travelling on the flat there is NOT
always pressure on the pedals.

If there were there would be no discernable
difference between fixed and free on the flat
at constant speed.

The flywheel effect on a fixed makes the difference IMO plus the
relative silence of the drivetrain. You can't help but pedal circles
and the rear foot is driven up more by the wheel than by the other foot
pushing down. YMMV

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Jim Price said:

There is a (Sheldon
Brown endorsed IIRC) argument that the ideal fixie should be a frame
designed for 590/597-ish wheels so when you run 622x32 you get a little
extra ground clearance and can use shorter drop (i.e. more modern)
brakes. Catching the pedals on the ground/kerb is somewhat more serious
when fixed.

I find that the flywheel effect seems to keep me going, though not
without some bounces and alarming course corrections. I think I've
probably been lucky to only have tried it at fairly low speed though.
165mm cranks, Time Atacs and some care around corners seem to keep me
out of trouble, even running 25-622 wheels on a frame designed for
mumble-635s.

Mine's a 1973 plain-gauge 531 black Falcon (yes, another one) done up
with midprice track bits, self-built wheels, and low-profile bars. Fiver
for the frame from the council tip, and removing the nasty tartan seat
cover on return to the workshop revealed a nut brown Brooks saddle which
polished up beautifully and is comfortable as anything. Now if I could
just get army green cork tape from somewhere, I'd be a happy bunny
indeed.

--
andrewc

Bob Downie said:

Finally I've done it.

Having just entered a decade starting with a number >4 I have finally
got myself fixed, err, a fixed wheel bike that is. I could never quite
justify to myself (or wife, kids etc.) the need to have another bicycle
but last November I found an early 1980's Falcon in a skip. After asking
the owner if she could bear to part with it, I became the happy owner of
a reasonable frame with the required horizontal drop-outs. All the
original fittings, with the exception of the head-set were unfortunately
junk.

My LBS (Behind Bars, Glasgow Southside) were great with helping me build
it up with new components, basically Mavic Open Sport rims matched with
System EX track hubs (thanks Michael). Nothing too flash in the way of
other components but still not a lot of change from £360 for all the
bits, including powder coating of the frame (P&J Powder Coating, also
Glasgow southside).

Gearing was an issue and after a couple of trials I am running 66" with
the option of dropping to 62" free-wheel with a flip-flop hub.

Did you see the price of that Gansaari in C+? It's no lightweight
either...my rebuilt Fuji Track was a fraction of the price, is lighter
and looks nicer too. I mean, gold rims FFS!

Tony Raven said:

bugbear said:

I agree (I have a fixed).

Which is VERY odd - for this to be true
(which I, and others in the thread believe)
one must conclude that on a freewheel bike
travelling on the flat there is NOT
always pressure on the pedals.

If there were there would be no discernable
difference between fixed and free on the flat
at constant speed.

The flywheel effect on a fixed makes the difference IMO plus the
relative silence of the drivetrain. You can't help but pedal circles
and the rear foot is driven up more by the wheel than by the other foot
pushing down. YMMV

So does anyone have any physically plausible hypotheses as to how "the
flywheel effect" or anything else can possibly make a difference in this
situation? I don't find the pawls disengaging atfter each pedal stroke
on my freehub. Anyone who is using the flywheel effect to push their
feet through the dead spot is surely doing a lot less "pedalling in
circles" than anyone who can ride a freehub normally.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Tony Raven said:

The flywheel effect on a fixed makes the difference IMO plus the
relative silence of the drivetrain. You can't help but pedal circles
and the rear foot is driven up more by the wheel than by the other
foot
pushing down. YMMV

So does anyone have any physically plausible hypotheses as to how "the
flywheel effect" or anything else can possibly make a difference in
this situation? I don't find the pawls disengaging atfter each pedal
stroke on my freehub.

If your feet lagged just a few degrees at one point on each stroke the
pawls wouldn't disengage, but it would still feel substantially
different from fixed. I'm not saying this is what happens, but it
strikes me as plausible.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Generally Not Used
;; Except by Middle Aged Computer Scientists

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Tony Raven said:

The flywheel effect on a fixed makes the difference IMO plus the
relative silence of the drivetrain. You can't help but pedal circles
and the rear foot is driven up more by the wheel than by the other
foot
pushing down. YMMV

So does anyone have any physically plausible hypotheses as to how "the
flywheel effect" or anything else can possibly make a difference in
this situation? I don't find the pawls disengaging atfter each pedal
stroke on my freehub.

If your feet lagged just a few degrees at one point on each stroke the
pawls wouldn't disengage, but it would still feel substantially
different from fixed. I'm not saying this is what happens, but it
strikes me as plausible.

It would still result in a brief lack of engagement at the start of
each new pedal stroke
(as you catch up with the freewheel), which I have certainly never
noticed in normal riding.

I have very occasionally noticed a fractional disengagement when
climbing clumsily on the tandem (standing). It's such an obvious and
horrible feeling that I do not think it credible
that any ordinary cyclists do this routinely on flat roads. But anyway,
if people do it on fixed,
how can this be described as "pedalling in circles"? It seems the exact
opposite - being
pushed through a dead spot by the flywheel.

James

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:47:17 GMT, [email hidden] (Dennis Davis)

Quoted message said:

In the referenced article said:

Quoted message said:

>
> http://www.downie-geo.demon.co.uk/Bike/Bobs_bike.html

Congratualtions, it looks beautiful.

Thanks a lot

Quoted message said:

What about the rear brake, do you
find yourself using it at all?

Yes but its just habit. I'm still learning about breaking with the
wheel.

Don't take the brake off. It's very useful for feathering your
speed at high pedal revs. It's also a useful safety measure if the
front brake cable snaps or wears through -- this DOES occasionally
happen.

Seconded. I tend to use both brakes on my fixie as well as the legs.
Also a 'handy' bit of extra braking to avoid Mr Dickead Motordriver as
he or she wanders aimlessly along the road oblivious to anything
around and about .............

.......... What you mean there are OTHER people on the road??........

:-|

Bob Downie said:

In message <[email hidden]>,
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> writes

Quoted message said:

Bob Downie said:

The lack of a free-wheel give an amazing intimacy with the
road.

Does the pedalling action feel different to
a freewheel bike when travelling on the flat
at a constant speed?

The only real difference on the flat is that if you ease-off the pedals
then they start to drive you.

I've just realised that I ought to point out that my fixie has a
recycled chainset with teeth which, due to their profile, and even
though not worn, allow a certain amount of play in the drive to the rear
wheel. I can move the pedals about 5mm each way without the rear wheel
moving - all that happens is the chain moves on the chainset. If the
pedals started to drive me and vice versa twice per revolution, I'm
pretty sure I would notice it because they would start to do that with a
small jerk at the end of the play, and another one when I start driving
the pedals again etc. I've just checked, and that's not happening to me.

Time to get a new chainset[1], I suppose (the existing one does not have
replaceable rings). Any suggestions for a not-too-expensive SS specific
chainset? Ideally, this would be one intended to be used with a long BB
spindle, because I have a very narrow chainline thanks to using a
re-spaced 5-speed rear hub.

[1]I could just wait for the new chain to stretch I suppose...
--
JimP
--
"We don't have a plan, so nothing can go wrong" - Spike Milligan

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

(BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk) said:

I believe the uk.rec.cycling etiquette is to show pictures of your new
bike in the kitchen so here they are.

http://www.downie-geo.demon.co.uk/Bike/Bobs_bike.html

Since everyone else has been posting Kitchen Pr0n, I though I'd get in
on the act. The results thereof may be found at here:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
The System is well pleased with this Unit's performance, which falls
within expected parameters.

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

(BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk) said:

I believe the uk.rec.cycling etiquette is to show pictures of your new
bike in the kitchen so here they are.

http://www.downie-geo.demon.co.uk/Bike/Bobs_bike.html

Since everyone else has been posting Kitchen Pr0n, I though I'd get in
on the act. The results thereof may be found at here:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Hurrah! I shall see what I can do with a mixture of fingery camera,
Flickr and 5 minutes spare time.

Quoted message said:

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

In 50% of cases anyway. (the righthand picture stays the same size,
on account of linking to bike2_small.jpg)

Tim
--
Blue Witch laughed at me

Quoted message said:

In 50% of cases anyway. (the righthand picture stays the same size,
on account of linking to bike2_small.jpg)

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/BikeStull/Fixer2.jpg> lets us see it in
all it's 800x600 glory.

In message <[email hidden]>, Dave
Larrington <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Since everyone else has been posting Kitchen Pr0n, I though I'd get in
on the act. The results thereof may be found at here:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

Here. How come you've got 2 recumbents and I've not got one? Not fair
that's what I say. I demand equal distribution of recumbent resources to
the masses!
--
Comrade Bob
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

Bob Downie said:

Quoted message said:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

Here. How come you've got 2 recumbents and I've not got one? Not fair
that's what I say. I demand equal distribution of recumbent resources to
the masses!

ITYM 2 in the picture. He's got 3 (at least). The chainwheel of the
third can be seen in the first picture.

--
Dave...

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Hall

() said:

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

(BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk) said:

I believe the uk.rec.cycling etiquette is to show pictures of your new
bike in the kitchen so here they are.

http://www.downie-geo.demon.co.uk/Bike/Bobs_bike.html

Since everyone else has been posting Kitchen Pr0n, I though I'd get in
on the act. The results thereof may be found at here:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Hurrah! I shall see what I can do with a mixture of fingery camera,
Flickr and 5 minutes spare time.

Quoted message said:

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

In 50% of cases anyway. (the righthand picture stays the same size,
on account of linking to bike2_small.jpg)

How odd. I could've sworn it worked last night... Anyway, it does now.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
If you are choking on an ice cube, simply pour a jug of boiling water
down your throat and presto! The blockage is almost instantly removed.

In article <[email hidden]>,

dkahn400 () said:

Bob Downie said:

Quoted message said:

<URL:http://legslarry.8bit.co.uk/Fixer.htm>

Doing the clicky-thing on the pictures will, by the magic of Webby
SCIENCE, display the same thing only Bigger.

Here. How come you've got 2 recumbents and I've not got one? Not fair
that's what I say. I demand equal distribution of recumbent resources to
the masses!

ITYM 2 in the picture. He's got 3 (at least). The chainwheel of the
third can be seen in the first picture.

Just the three at the moment[1] - the Trice, the Speedmachine & Cosimo
the Stealth Baron. It just requires practice.

1 - contemplating thinking about the possibility of acquiring something
lighter in time for PBP, but have so far failed to come up with anything
that fits my rather exacting criteria...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
If you are choking on an ice cube, simply pour a jug of boiling water
down your throat and presto! The blockage is almost instantly removed.