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Induction-Cooking Online Information Resource

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 January 2006
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  1. If you have any interest in induction cooking, the longstanding web
    site at TheInductionSite.com has recently undergone a truly massive
    upgrading (indeed, we are still finishing up). We now have not only
    detailed explanations of many facets of induction cooking and cooking
    equipment that are not often well presented (such as the true
    significance of "power" claims), but also what we hope and believe to
    be the most comprehensive and detailed database of induction-cooking
    equipment in the known universe. (That includes bouth "household" and
    "commercial" equipment.)

    About the only thing still lacking, and we are at work on it, is a
    corresponding database of induction-suitable cookware.

    We invite everyone in this group to come take a look at the newly
    refurbished site. If you find anything lacking that you want or need
    in the way of information, by all means let us know. This site is
    intended as a public resource.

    --
    Cordially,
    Eric Walker, webmaster
    http://theinductionsite.com

  2. Following up to [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    but also what we hope and believe to
    be the most comprehensive and detailed database of induction-cooking
    equipment in the known universe. (That includes bouth "household" and
    "commercial" equipment.)

    I understand Paul Gayler (the Lanesborough?) has gone induction

    Quoted message said:

    About the only thing still lacking, and we are at work on it, is a
    corresponding database of induction-suitable cookware.

    Now Ive been told induction works with anything metal, obviously
    not the case.
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  3. Following up to [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    but also what we hope and believe to
    be the most comprehensive and detailed database of induction-cooking
    equipment in the known universe. (That includes bouth "household" and
    "commercial" equipment.)

    I understand Paul Gayler (the Lanesborough?) has gone induction

    Quoted message said:

    About the only thing still lacking, and we are at work on it, is a
    corresponding database of induction-suitable cookware.

    Now Ive been told induction works with anything metal, obviously
    not the case.
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  4. Quoted message said:

    If you have any interest in induction cooking, the longstanding web
    site at TheInductionSite.com has recently undergone a truly massive
    upgrading (indeed, we are still finishing up). We now have not only
    detailed explanations of many facets of induction cooking and cooking
    equipment that are not often well presented (such as the true
    significance of "power" claims), but also what we hope and believe to
    be the most comprehensive and detailed database of induction-cooking
    equipment in the known universe. (That includes bouth "household" and
    "commercial" equipment.)

    Does anybody know of a more balanced view of the things?
    This site is relentlessly in favour but there must be some
    drawbacks surly?

    Noises off

  5. Noises Off said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    Does anybody know of a more balanced view of the things?
    This site is relentlessly in favour but there must be some
    drawbacks surly?

    The site page "Pros and Cons" contains as honest a look as we could
    take at the drawbacks. But it really is true that there aren't many,
    and those not major. The chiefest remains the cookware issue. (You
    can also check out the site page "More Information" for links to forums
    besides than this one in which discussion of induction is not
    uncommon.)

    Mike Reid's remark that "Ive been told induction works with anything
    metal", is true but it isn't: that is, there are apparently some
    cutting-edge units made by Panasonic solely for distribution in Japan
    that will work with metals other than the traditional ferrous
    substances, but--so far as we understand it--it will likely be some
    years before units with that capability begin showing up in the usual
    retail channels in Europe and North America. (Of course, that could be
    wrong, and such units might arrive sooner, but we would not recommend
    the proverbial holding of breath till it happens).

    Based on a lot of scattered bits and pieces of information, we truly
    believe that before many years pass, induction will bury all other
    cooking methods as surely as coal-burning cooking stoves are buried.
    (We have no axe to grind: we are not associated with the business in
    any way, direct or indirect--the site arose from our own pleasant
    introduction to and experiences with induction.)

    --
    Cordially,
    Eric Walker, webmaster
    http://theinductionsite.com

  6. In article <[email hidden]>, Noises Off

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you have any interest in induction cooking, the longstanding web
    site at TheInductionSite.com has recently undergone a truly massive
    upgrading (indeed, we are still finishing up). We now have not only
    detailed explanations of many facets of induction cooking and cooking
    equipment that are not often well presented (such as the true
    significance of "power" claims), but also what we hope and believe to
    be the most comprehensive and detailed database of induction-cooking
    equipment in the known universe. (That includes bouth "household" and
    "commercial" equipment.)

    Does anybody know of a more balanced view of the things?
    This site is relentlessly in favour but there must be some
    drawbacks surly?

    I have a counter-top model, the Sunpentown "Mr. Induction," from Japan
    or China (I forget which). I paid about $120 for it, mail order. For
    the past year, it's been my main cooking surface (my electric stove
    needs to be replaced, and I haven't gotten around to contracting to
    have a propane line brought in under the house and thence to a gas
    burner cooktop, so the induction unit is mostly what I use; if I need a
    second cooking surface, I have a conventional electric hotplate and
    also a butane portable stove).

    I measured the induction power consumption at about 1170 watts, so this
    is not as intense a source as a large electric ring on a conventional
    stove (which can exceed 2 KW), but it does the job nicely.

    My April 2005 summary to some of the newsgroups is excerpted below.

    As for pots and pans, any _magnetic_ (magnets stick to it) pot or pan
    will work well. I mostly use Lodge cast iron skillets and woks and
    steel-bottomed stock pots (for pasta, for example).

    Pots and pans that _don't_ work are the nonmagnetic ones, including
    aluminum (Calphalon, Anolon, etc) and copper. Take a refrigerator
    magnet and see which pots and pans it sticks to, on the bottom. These
    will be the pots and pans usable with an induction cooktop.

    My advice is that for anyone considering induction cooking, give it a
    try with one of these portable, counter-top units. These are useful as
    hotplates, for teakettles, etc., and are not much more expensive than
    quality hot plates are.

    By the way, a safety feature of induction cooktops is that the surface
    itself doesn't get very hot (just some transferred heat from the hot
    pan). The surfaces are usually some kind of glass ceramic, so the heat
    capacity is low (translation: they don't remain hot for long once the
    pot or pan is removed).

    --Tim May

    (some of my April 2005 test results on heating rates are below)

    I did a bunch of
    tests of current draw (actually, watts, but watts = amps times volts)
    on this induction unit when it arrived. I also measured the time to
    raise a liter of water from tap water temperature (about 50 F in my
    area, this time of year) to the first (7-8 psig) and second (14-16
    psig) rings on my 5 liter Kuhn-Rikon.

    Here are my recordings, taken with a Brand Electronics watt-meter
    (where one plugs the Brand into the wall, then plugs the appliance into
    the Brand, zeroes it, and begins):

    Sunpentown "Mr. Induction," set on highest setting:

    1st ring: 8.75 minutes
    2nd ring: 9.5 minutes
    measured watts: 1170
    measured KWH to 2nd ring: 0.19

    Aroma electric coil (standalone hotplate, comparable to medium-sized
    coil on electric range), set on highest setting:

    1st ring: 16-17 minutes
    2nd ring: 17.5-18 minutes
    measured watts: 760
    measured KWH to 2nd ring: 0.23

    Butane burner, Max Burton, set on highest flame:

    1st ring: 6.5 minutes
    2nd ring: 7 minutes
    measured watts: not available (though I could have weighed the butane
    cannister before and after and imputed a BTU value, I didn't)
    KWH to 2nd ring: not available (ditto)

    I have an outdoor wok burner (like a turkey fryer burner, except even
    larger) which heats my woks to cherry red in a couple of minutes.

  7. Quoted message said:
    Noises Off said:

    Does anybody know of a more balanced view of the things?
    This site is relentlessly in favour but there must be some
    drawbacks surly?

    The site page "Pros and Cons" contains as honest a look as we could
    take at the drawbacks. But it really is true that there aren't many,
    and those not major. The chiefest remains the cookware issue. (You
    can also check out the site page "More Information" for links to forums
    besides than this one in which discussion of induction is not
    uncommon.)

    My one other objection to the single-burner (Sunpentown) induction
    units we have is that they have loud cooling fans in them. I haven't
    looked at the built-in units, so I'm not sure about those, but this
    issue takes them from "amazingly wonderful" for Chinese Hot-Pot to
    "inferior to butane" when you want to hold a conversation during
    dinner.

    Given that we own _two_ such burners (and they're sitting on top
    of the glasstop radiant stove we have), this is still a minor detail,
    though.

    Donald

  8. On 2006-01-11, Tim May <[email hidden]> wrote:
    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I measured the induction power consumption at about 1170 watts, so this
    is not as intense a source as a large electric ring on a conventional
    stove (which can exceed 2 KW), but it does the job nicely.


    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    (some of my April 2005 test results on heating rates are below)

    I did a bunch of
    tests of current draw (actually, watts, but watts = amps times volts)
    on this induction unit when it arrived.

    This formula is actually not valid for all AC circuits. It is valid
    for DC circuits, and for some AC circuits, but not for inductive
    loads. Inductive loads include things like electric motors and
    generally anything with a coil in it through which the AC current
    flows. Incandescent light bulbs and conventional electric heaters
    (whether a cooktop or a space heater) are non-inductive loads (mostly,
    and close enough for most purposes). Call me crazy, but I'm betting
    that an induction hob is, in fact, an inductive load. For inductive
    loads, the equation for true power is:

    watts = amps x volts x power factor

    The "power factor" is a number which depends on the exact nature of
    the device and ranges from 0 to 1. Non-inductive loads have a power
    factor of 1, and so the usual formula (watts = amps x volts) is
    correct. Inductive loads consume a different amount of true power
    because they put the current out of phase with the voltage. During
    part of the cycle, energy is "borrowed" from the source power lines
    and stored in the coil's magnetic field and then returned to the power
    lines later in the cycle. (This is a simplification; interested
    parties should consult a good text on physics or electrical
    engineering.) This borrowing and returning results in the power
    factor in the above equation, which can be calculated if you know the
    exact specifications of the coil, or measured with sufficiently fancy
    power meters. The power factor can also change for a given device
    depending on how much power it is actually drawing at any point in
    time. So in the case of an induction cooktop, the power factor
    probably changes based on the power setting and what sort of cookware
    is on the hob.

    Now, depending on what kind of what meter you were using, you may have
    been measuring true power or not -- if it is a very expensive ($200+,
    depending on capacity) true RMS power meter, you were probably
    measuring true power, including power factor. Otherwise, the device
    was approximating power based on the assumption that it was measuring
    a non-inductive load. In that case, you were actually doing
    approximately the correct calculation for amps by not including the
    power factor, but you were not getting an accurate measure of true
    power comsumption.

    This is all pretty academic, since the answer to the question of what
    type of cooking surface is most efficient in terms of percentage of
    energy delivered to the pan is well-known: induction is most
    efficient. (It may not be cheapest, depending on the cost of gas
    vs. electricity in your area.) If you want to accurately measure
    exactly how much more efficient it is, you're need an expensive power
    meter, and you'll need to find a way to meter your gas accurately as
    well.

    --
    Randall

  9. Sunpentown is based in Taiwan, but I suspect the units that are so
    common in the U.S. are made here for them (possibly by Spring). They
    are rated as 1.2 kW, which converts to roughly 8,600 BTU/hour, not much
    cooking power. All countertop units meant for North American household
    use will be somewhat limited, in that they are 115-volt units and the
    typical wall or counter socket is on a 15-amp circuit; even with
    nothing else plugged into that circuit, and allowing for typical
    voltage variations, about 1.6 kW is an upper limit, and 1.4 kW a more
    reasonable one (Tatung and Tayama distribute units comparable to the
    Sunpentown but a bit more powerful yet less expensive). But countertop
    toys are not where it's at: kitchen cooktops are.

    In the kitchen, you cannot quite equate induction elements to
    conventional coils, because induction is somewhat more efficient at
    energy transfer. As to gas, using energy-efficiency figures developed
    in standardized testing at the Lawrence Berkeley Labs for the U.S. DOE,
    we can calculate that the average induction unit's power in kilowatts
    times 7185 equals the average corresponding gas unit in BTU/hour; thus,
    a 1.8-kW induction element (a common "medium" size) would produce about
    as much cooking power as a 13,000 BTU/hour gas burner.

    Induction cooktops run pretty quietly. They are not absolutely,
    utterly silent, but it's not anything anyone would notice if they
    weren't expressly listening for it.

    I admit I'm not certain of this, but I strongly suspect that induction
    units are *not* inductive loads, even though their cooking power
    ultimately comes from a driven coil. That's because the coil is driven
    by a sophisticated electronics unit, not by the mains power, so that
    they differ from, say, motors; I'd guess they are no more an inductive
    load than a television set or hi-fi unit.

  10. On 2006-01-12, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I admit I'm not certain of this, but I strongly suspect that induction
    units are *not* inductive loads, even though their cooking power
    ultimately comes from a driven coil. That's because the coil is driven
    by a sophisticated electronics unit, not by the mains power, so that
    they differ from, say, motors; I'd guess they are no more an inductive
    load than a television set or hi-fi unit.

    If they start by rectifying AC to DC and then have their own
    high-power inverter to drive the induction coils at a higher frequency
    than 50/60Hz (which would probably be a good idea anyway, to cut down
    on audible noise and probably increase power output), then you are
    probably correct that they are not inductive loads w.r.t. mains power.
    That would be kind of funny, for an induction stove to be a
    non-inductive load. But now that I think about it, that is in fact
    the most likely case.

    Do you happen to know if they modulate cooking power by cycling the
    elements (turning them on and off at varying duty cycles, but always
    running at full power while on) or by controlling the voltage/current
    at 100% duty cycle?

    --
    Randall

  11. Following up to [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Based on a lot of scattered bits and pieces of information, we truly
    believe that before many years pass, induction will bury all other
    cooking methods

    dunno, I can see it being very popular but I'm not sure how it
    will work for wok cooking or with my carzuela (clay!), you would
    think Agas would have gone, but they havent.
    The one time I tried to use one was in the fancy house of a non
    cook, for a large meeting in the village hall. The (society
    supplied) big pans of course didnt work properly on it and
    several people went away saying induction is rubbish. I think it
    will need to not dictate what you cook with to convert many of
    those currently "cooking on gas". Somehow, pouring booze into a
    sauce and tipping the pan to ignite it or holding a pan above a
    flame and tossing the contents are visceral parts of cooking I
    dont want to lose. dont know if the young will think so, probably
    more interested in easy clean?
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  12. Following up to Tim May

    Quoted message said:

    I measured the induction power consumption at about 1170 watts, so this
    is not as intense a source as a large electric ring on a conventional
    stove (which can exceed 2 KW), but it does the job nicely.

    or my 5KW gas ring!
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  13. Randall Nortman said:


    If they start by rectifying AC to DC and then have their own
    high-power inverter to drive the induction coils at a higher frequency
    than 50/60Hz (which would probably be a good idea anyway, to cut down
    on audible noise and probably increase power output), then you are
    probably correct that they are not inductive loads w.r.t. mains power.
    That would be kind of funny, for an induction stove to be a
    non-inductive load. But now that I think about it, that is in fact
    the most likely case.

    Do you happen to know if they modulate cooking power by cycling the
    elements (turning them on and off at varying duty cycles, but always
    running at full power while on) or by controlling the voltage/current
    at 100% duty cycle?

    I do not, and it may vary from design to design. I am fairly sure
    that, at least at the very lowest settings (melt chocolate, that sort
    of thing), they do cycle on and off, but whether they run 100% while
    "on" or just can't run lower than a certain level without cycling, I
    don't know.

    If it's important to anyone, I daresay I could easily enough find out
    from one of my correspondents at a wholesale element supplier. (But
    not today, meaning the 12th, as I'll be out of town till night.)

    --
    Cordially,
    Eric Walker, webmaster
    http://TheInductionSite.com

  14. Following up to Owain

    Quoted message said:

    in that they are 115-volt units and the

    Quoted message said:

    typical wall or counter socket is on a 15-amp circuit; even with
    nothing else plugged into that circuit, and allowing for typical
    voltage variations, about 1.6 kW is an upper limit, and 1.4 kW a more
    reasonable one

    Of course us lucky people in uk.food+drink.misc (well most of us) have
    240V 13A sockets everywhere in the house. I think that makes 3.2kW of
    power available.

    and our cooker points are 30 or 45 amps.
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  15. On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:57:09 +0000, Owain <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Sunpentown is based in Taiwan, but I suspect the units that are so
    common in the U.S. are made here for them (possibly by Spring). They
    are rated as 1.2 kW, which converts to roughly 8,600 BTU/hour, not much
    cooking power. All countertop units meant for North American household
    use will be somewhat limited, in that they are 115-volt units and the
    typical wall or counter socket is on a 15-amp circuit; even with
    nothing else plugged into that circuit, and allowing for typical
    voltage variations, about 1.6 kW is an upper limit, and 1.4 kW a more
    reasonable one

    Of course us lucky people in uk.food+drink.misc (well most of us) have
    240V 13A sockets everywhere in the house. I think that makes 3.2kW of
    power available.

    The maths in the UK is obscure and depends on your initial assumptions.

    Agreed, our kettle is labeled 3KW and I would not be without it. When the
    previous one died, I insisted on 3KW or more for the new one.

    --
    Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
    17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
    For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

  16. Owain said:

    I thought maths was much the same everywhere, even if it's called math.

    "I thought maths *were* much the same everywhere..."

    In America we like our maths one at a time.

    Geoff

    --
    "This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. This is only a test.
    Had this been an actual emergency, you'd be writhing on the ground in
    unspeakable agony, bleeding from every orifice, with your blackened skin
    falling away in ragged strips."

  17. Several diverse responses:

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure how it will work for wok cooking or with my carzuela (clay!)

    Wok cooking does take more power, but is still easily accomplished on a
    suitable induction unit. Numerous makers have wok units, typically at
    3.5 kW power; most of those have a bowl-shaped indent, and come with a
    matching wok pot. Some makers, especially a few commercial suppliers,
    make "wok" and "multi-purpose" units, also often 3.5 kW, that have a
    flat surface but, apparently, use some sort of adapter for wok use (and
    other adaptors for other uses, such as pasta-water pots).

    As to clay pots, while they won't work direct, there are workarounds;
    at http://www.toshiba.co.jp/living/webcata/cooker/ihc_25pb.htm you can
    see a japanese countertop unit with a special sort of "Dutch oven" top
    especially designed to hold a (correspondingly custom) earthenware pot
    of the type traditionally used in Japanese cooking. Thus the unit
    allows using induction to cook in a traditional-form pot that would
    not, by itself, work on induction. That is not a big development, but
    is an interesting example of how thoughtful makers can reconcile modern
    technology to traditional forms.

    Quoted message said:

    The one time I tried to use one was in the fancy house of a non cook, for a large meeting in the village hall. The (society supplied) big pans of course didnt work properly on it and several people went away saying induction is rubbish. . . .

    If you're going to cater, do it like the pros: bring *all* your own
    equipment. But while induction is widely used by professional caterers
    (because gas is not always available, plus gas is a major safety risk),
    the real application future of induction will be in displacing all
    other fixed heat sources in both professional and household kitchens.
    (Those who will dismiss as "rubbish" what they plainly wot not of are
    the reasons for so many of the charming events we see in history.)

    Quoted message said:

    I think it will need to not dictate what you cook with to convert many of those currently "cooking on gas".

    In time, it will work with any metal vessel, but even so: that's like
    saying cars will never replace horses till they can be made to run on
    oats (or, more on point, till they can use horseshoes instead of
    requiring tires).

    Quoted message said:

    . . . or my 5KW gas ring!

    I am not accustomed to seeing gas heat reckoned in watts (as opposed to
    BTU/hour). If the figure is simply the energy-table conversion between
    units, it is incommensurable with induction cooking power. One would
    have to divide a gas burner's heat output, if expressed in kW, by
    roughly 2.1 to get the equivalent rating of an induction element that
    produces the same net cooking power (gas is on average 39.9% efficient
    in heating, whereas induction averages 84% efficiency). On that basis,
    a 5-kW gas ring equates to a 2.38-kW induction element. Elements of
    about that capacity are common on most household induction cooktops.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course us lucky people in uk.food+drink.misc (well most of us) have 240V 13A sockets everywhere in the house. I think that makes 3.2kW of power available.

    I would be inclined to say that 2.8 kW--possibly even a little less--is
    about the maximum feasible plug-in-unit power, because one must assume
    that the line voltage will occasionally fluctuate from its nominal
    value--a +/- 10% range is safest for figuring. It also depends on how
    close to the edge one cares to work, so far as the risk of tripping a
    breaker on a low-voltage condition (suppose the individual unit is
    actually, say, 3% over nominal power rating?) Notice that, not
    surprisingly, that is just about exactly double the amount likely to be
    conservatively safe in 115-volt regions.

    Quoted message said:

    . . . and our cooker points are 30 or 45 amps

    I would be interested in knowing the relative distribution of
    ampacities in the U.K. and on the Continent. In the U.S., 20 amps is
    code minimum, but most such circuits are 30 amps. One can, of course
    (if building or re-modelling) demand whatever one cares to pay for, but
    there remain limits on practicality. If, for example, the house entry
    box is only 200 amps (as is common in the U.S., even for newer homes),
    a dedicated circuit of, say, 50 amps would be quite a high percentage
    of the house's entire supply.

    Moreover, there is another question: who needs it? If one is involved
    in that game by whose rules "he who dies with the most toys wins",
    that's one thing; but for practical cooking, how many households need
    more than, say, 6.3 kW total induction cookpower (about the practical
    limit for a 30-amp circuit) at one time, and how often? In gas terms,
    that's a little over roughly 45,000 BTU/hour, or the equivalent of four
    burners each running at well over 11,000 BTU/hour simultaneously. (or,
    to continue on down, of three burners each running at over 15,000
    BTU/hour--which, as best I recall, is the level of some of the most
    expensive, fancy-dancy home-kitchen gas units available).

    Remember that a typical home induction cooktop rarely if ever comprises
    four equally sized elements. Often--though there are many
    variations--there will be a couple of smaller ones,a medium-sized one,
    and a large one. The *least* expensive--reckoned on cost per watt--of
    the 4-element units in our site's database has these element powers,
    which I show with their gas equivalents:

    1.2 kW, boostable to 1.8 kW (8,600 BTU/hr boostable to 13,000 BUT/hr)
    1.7 kW, boostable to 2.5 kW (12,200 BTU/hr boostable to 18,000 BUT/hr)
    1.7 kW, boostable to 3.3 kW (12,200 BTU/hr boostable to 23,700 BUT/hr)
    2.2 kW, boostable to 2.5 kW (15,800 BTU/hr boostable to 18,000 BUT/hr)

    ("Boostable" induction elements can be temporarily--typically for about
    10 minutes--raised to a higher output level, which they achieve by
    "stealing" some power, in proportion, from the other elements; that is
    useful for, say, bringing a big pot of water to the boil.)

    _Even without any boosts_, that is equivalent to a gas cooker with
    burner powers ranging from the ordinary to the super-powered. How many
    homes need more than what this fellow has? And he is among the
    cheapest, widely available in the U.K. at under 500 pounds, including
    VAT. (And is a trusted brand name that I will not repeat so as to seem
    to be plugging any one company.)

  18. Following up to [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Wok cooking does take more power, but is still easily accomplished on a
    suitable induction unit. Numerous makers have wok units, typically at
    3.5 kW power; most of those have a bowl-shaped indent, and come with a
    matching wok pot. Some makers, especially a few commercial suppliers,
    make "wok" and "multi-purpose" units, also often 3.5 kW, that have a
    flat surface but, apparently, use some sort of adapter for wok use (and
    other adaptors for other uses, such as pasta-water pots).

    I can see how you can make these things work with bespoke
    accessories, but I quite like the earthenware pot I bought back
    from Mallorca, the Tagine from.....

    How would I get on with my cast iron ridged griddle? It sits on
    two gas jets. I assume you wouldn't want to plonk it on top of a
    fancy glass hob, a dedicated unit? Same for the "la plancha" dry
    flat grill I assume.

    Quoted message said:

    can reconcile modern technology to traditional forms.

    yes, its a fascinating area, we have a long tradition of cooking
    methods which produce certain pleasing results. When a new method
    comes along we then have to find ways of combining the two.
    We seem to have largely failed with the microwave oven!

    Having seen that you can run an induction hob off a normal power
    point I would be tempted (with more space) to fit a couple just
    to have the best of trad and modern.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The one time I tried to use one was in the fancy house of a non cook

    Quoted message said:

    If you're going to cater, do it like the pros: bring *all* your own
    equipment.

    That wasn't really an option.

    Quoted message said:

    But while induction is widely used by professional caterers
    (because gas is not always available, plus gas is a major safety risk),
    the real application future of induction will be in displacing all
    other fixed heat sources in both professional and household kitchens.
    (Those who will dismiss as "rubbish" what they plainly wot not of are
    the reasons for so many of the charming events we see in history.)

    I've not seen a pro chef on TV with induction yet, they have all
    been gas.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think it will need to not dictate what you cook with to convert many of those currently "cooking on gas".

    In time, it will work with any metal vessel, but even so: that's like
    saying cars will never replace horses till they can be made to run on
    oats (or, more on point, till they can use horseshoes instead of
    requiring tires).

    Not quite. If a cooking vessel gives an effect different from one
    that works with induction, then its retention is valid. As I have
    no problems with gas, I would only switch to something else if it
    doesn't require compromises.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    . . . or my 5KW gas ring!

    I am not accustomed to seeing gas heat reckoned in watts

    I don't know how they worked out its equivalent power, allowing
    for efficiency or not. But its big and heats wide pans like a
    large paella efficiently

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    . . . and our cooker points are 30 or 45 amps

    I would be interested in knowing the relative distribution of
    ampacities in the U.K. and on the Continent. In the U.S., 20 amps is
    code minimum, but most such circuits are 30 amps.

    UK ring mains are usually 30 amp, cookers and showers run on
    dedicated spurs with own fuse.

    Quoted message said:

    One can, of course
    (if building or re-modelling) demand whatever one cares to pay for, but
    there remain limits on practicality. If, for example, the house entry
    box is only 200 amps (as is common in the U.S., even for newer homes),
    a dedicated circuit of, say, 50 amps would be quite a high percentage
    of the house's entire supply.

    I think 200 amps would be more than UK average for the main fuse.
    (I think mine is probably 70, fitted in about 1930) I'm not an
    expert but there's a formula we use that makes some assumptions
    about the likely loads, so a 45 amp cooker can coexist with two
    30 amp rings and the lighting rings on a 100 amp main fuse, *I
    think*

    Quoted message said:

    Moreover, there is another question: who needs it? If one is involved
    in that game by whose rules "he who dies with the most toys wins",
    that's one thing; but for practical cooking, how many households need
    more than, say, 6.3 kW total induction cookpower (about the practical
    limit for a 30-amp circuit) at one time, and how often? In gas terms,
    that's a little over roughly 45,000 BTU/hour, or the equivalent of four
    burners each running at well over 11,000 BTU/hour simultaneously. (or,
    to continue on down, of three burners each running at over 15,000
    BTU/hour--which, as best I recall, is the level of some of the most
    expensive, fancy-dancy home-kitchen gas units available).

    I think all you need is one large powerful hob and one hot oven
    running at 300+
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  19. Following up to Geoff Miller

    Quoted message said:

    In America we like our maths one at a time.

    just arithmetic or geometry, why not all branches? :-)
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

  20. "The Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Following up to Geoff Miller

    Quoted message said:

    In America we like our maths one at a time.

    just arithmetic or geometry, why not all branches? :-)

    There is no arithmetic in the USA; just math.

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