Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
Sheldon Brown's site lists both the 9 and 10 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick. Branford lists the 9 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick and the 10 speed cogs as 1.70 mm thick. I cannot get some of the Campagnolo pdf documents to come up. And the spare parts pdf does not mention cog thickness. Anyone else have an official pronouncement on cog thickness? Or if it matters at all? 10 cogs times .05 mm is one half of 1 mm total. Not much.
The Campagnolo spare parts pdf does mention 3 different thicknesses of 10 speed spacers. 2.4 mm for most, a 2.55 mm spacer near the middle, and a 1.6 mm spacer in the last position. True?
Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
I'm pretty sure that there *isn't* a "from the factory" cassette with a 23-29 jump in the last two cogs, and I think that's a place to look for problems.
Campy design the ramps in their cogs to "line up" with the ramps in adjacent cogs, to make shifting work well, even making (say) different 21T cogs depending on what *other* cogs they will be used with. I suspect the only 23s and 29s available were designed to have another cog between them. Reportedly one can "cheat" and use mismatched cogs with only moderate shifting degradation, (at least with Shimano) but you say you want it to "work EXACTLY as an official" cassette.
My short guess is that you can get it to work, but shifting onto or off the 29T (or both) won't be as good as with the other cogs in the cassette - if it were possible to get a 23-29 shifting that well, it would probably require a different 23 or 29 than is currently available.
Good luck; sound's like it's worth a try if that "exactly like factory" requirement is more flexible than it sounds. Maybe the difference won't be enough to bother you; some folks are fussier than others.
Mark Janeba <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
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Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
I'm pretty sure that there *isn't* a "from the factory" cassette with a 23-29 jump in the last two cogs, and I think that's a place to look for problems.
Campy design the ramps in their cogs to "line up" with the ramps in adjacent cogs, to make shifting work well, even making (say) different 21T cogs depending on what *other* cogs they will be used with. I suspect the only 23s and 29s available were designed to have another cog between them.
The 29 only comes on a carrier mated to a 26. In fact, all Campagnolo 10- speed cassettes have the two largest cogs riveted together on a carrier. Unless the small cog is 11t, the next two biggest are riveted together, too.
I know I'd looked into using some jiggery-pokery to get a 29 onto my 9- speed cassette. Instead, I just rode more and got OK climbing steep-steep with the 28, the biggest available in 9s. We'll see how I feel when I get the bike back from the paint shop, and rebuild it with a 52-42-30 Veloce crank, instead of the 46-36-24 Sugino I had before.
The 29 only comes on a carrier mated to a 26. In fact, all Campagnolo 10- speed cassettes have the two largest cogs riveted together on a carrier. Unless the small cog is 11t, the next two biggest are riveted together, too.
Not true. The Veloce 10 speed cassettes are all loose cog, or at least they were last year when I manufactured a couple of custom cassettes from standard Campy Veloce parts (12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-29). They work very nicely, despite what Campagnolo may say about having to have preciesly matched cogs.
That being said, I agree that the 23-29 proposed jump may be tricky.
"JF" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
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The 29 only comes on a carrier mated to a 26. In fact, all Campagnolo 10- speed cassettes have the two largest cogs riveted together on a carrier. Unless the small cog is 11t, the next two biggest are riveted together, too.
Not true. The Veloce 10 speed cassettes are all loose cog, or at least they were last year when I manufactured a couple of custom cassettes from standard Campy Veloce parts (12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-29).
Gotcha. I was misreading the Branford site. They only listed the 10s cogs for Centaur and up, but the description for Veloce cassettes does say it's loose cogs. I stand corrected.
Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
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Sheldon Brown's site lists both the 9 and 10 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick. Branford lists the 9 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick and the 10 speed cogs as 1.70 mm thick. I cannot get some of the Campagnolo pdf documents to come up. And the spare parts pdf does not mention cog thickness. Anyone else have an official pronouncement on cog thickness? Or if it matters at all? 10 cogs times .05 mm is one half of 1 mm total. Not much.
The Campagnolo spare parts pdf does mention 3 different thicknesses of 10 speed spacers. 2.4 mm for most, a 2.55 mm spacer near the middle, and a 1.6 mm spacer in the last position. True?
All true but you need the spacers that come in a loose Veloce cogset or the ones for the last few cogs of a Centaur...2.4mm...
Mark Janeba <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
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Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
I'm pretty sure that there *isn't* a "from the factory" cassette with a 23-29 jump in the last two cogs, and I think that's a place to look for problems.
Campy design the ramps in their cogs to "line up" with the ramps in adjacent cogs, to make shifting work well, even making (say) different 21T cogs depending on what *other* cogs they will be used with. I suspect the only 23s and 29s available were designed to have another cog between them.
The 29 only comes on a carrier mated to a 26. In fact, all Campagnolo 10- speed cassettes have the two largest cogs riveted together on a carrier. Unless the small cog is 11t, the next two biggest are riveted together, too.
Not true. Veloce 10s cogsets are all loose cogs, even the 13-29.
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I know I'd looked into using some jiggery-pokery to get a 29 onto my 9- speed cassette. Instead, I just rode more and got OK climbing steep-steep with the 28, the biggest available in 9s. We'll see how I feel when I get the bike back from the paint shop, and rebuild it with a 52-42-30 Veloce crank, instead of the 46-36-24 Sugino I had before.
Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Why "Nope."?
Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it.
Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed? Will the cog thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
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Sheldon Brown's site lists both the 9 and 10 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick. Branford lists the 9 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick and the 10 speed cogs as 1.70 mm thick. I cannot get some of the Campagnolo pdf documents to come up. And the spare parts pdf does not mention cog thickness. Anyone else have an official pronouncement on cog thickness? Or if it matters at all? 10 cogs times .05 mm is one half of 1 mm total. Not much.
The Campagnolo spare parts pdf does mention 3 different thicknesses of 10 speed spacers. 2.4 mm for most, a 2.55 mm spacer near the middle, and a 1.6 mm spacer in the last position. True?
All true but you need the spacers that come in a loose Veloce cogset
I figure I can get the spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cogset.
or
Quoted message said:
the ones for the last few cogs of a Centaur...2.4mm...
Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Why "Nope."?
'Have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10s casette"-Nope. 1st, no from the factory 23 to 29 and for a 5t difference instead of a 3 tooth difference, nope. Will it shift-yep, but not as well as a 26 to 29.
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Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it.
Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed? Will the cog thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
Yep, nope,
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Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Sheldon Brown's site lists both the 9 and 10 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick. Branford lists the 9 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick and the 10 speed cogs as 1.70 mm thick. I cannot get some of the Campagnolo pdf documents to come up. And the spare parts pdf does not mention cog thickness. Anyone else have an official pronouncement on cog thickness? Or if it matters at all? 10 cogs times .05 mm is one half of 1 mm total. Not much.
The Campagnolo spare parts pdf does mention 3 different thicknesses of 10 speed spacers. 2.4 mm for most, a 2.55 mm spacer near the middle, and a 1.6 mm spacer in the last position. True?
All true but you need the spacers that come in a loose Veloce cogset
I figure I can get the spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cogset.
or
Quoted message said:
the ones for the last few cogs of a Centaur...2.4mm...
[email hidden] wrote: > Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness > spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 > individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from > a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed > cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have > it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 > speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Why "Nope."?
'Have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10s casette"-Nope. 1st, no from the factory 23 to 29 and for a 5t difference instead of a 3 tooth difference, nope. Will it shift-yep, but not as well as a 26 to 29.
I can very happily live with a less than exactly perfect 23-29 shift to get the 18 tooth cog to make a straight block 13 through 19 and get a low, low 29 gear when I need it.
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Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it.
Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed?
Quoted message said:
Yep
Great.
Will the cog
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thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
nope,
Great.
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> > Sheldon Brown's site lists both the 9 and 10 speed cogs as 1.75 mm > thick. Branford lists the 9 speed cogs as 1.75 mm thick and the 10 > speed cogs as 1.70 mm thick. I cannot get some of the Campagnolo pdf > documents to come up. And the spare parts pdf does not mention cog > thickness. Anyone else have an official pronouncement on cog > thickness? Or if it matters at all? 10 cogs times .05 mm is one half > of 1 mm total. Not much. > > The Campagnolo spare parts pdf does mention 3 different thicknesses of > 10 speed spacers. 2.4 mm for most, a 2.55 mm spacer near the middle, > and a 1.6 mm spacer in the last position. True?
All true but you need the spacers that come in a loose Veloce cogset
I figure I can get the spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cogset.
or
Quoted message said:
the ones for the last few cogs of a Centaur...2.4mm...
Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Why "Nope."?
Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it.
Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed? Will the cog thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
I believe that they are not completely interchangeable, although I have not tried swapping between Vel9 and Vel10. I have both Veloce 9 and Veloce 10. On the latter cassette (14-23) I notice that at least one of the cogs is slightly flanged close to the freehub. This will be worth a couple of tenths of a millimetre. /Robert
>Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness >spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 >individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from >a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed >cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have >it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 >speed cassette?
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Why "Nope."?
Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it.
Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed? Will the cog thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
I believe that they are not completely interchangeable, although I have not tried swapping between Vel9 and Vel10. I have both Veloce 9 and Veloce 10. On the latter cassette (14-23) I notice that at least one of the cogs is slightly flanged close to the freehub. This will be worth a couple of tenths of a millimetre. /Robert
The flanged cog on the 10 speed Veloce cassette is the last cog. Campagnolo's website describes this. The thinnest 1.6 mm spacer goes just before this cog, in the last spot. And on 10 speed derailleurs supposedly the inner pulley cage has been thinned so it does not get as close to the spokes, since the last cog is now flanged towards the spokes a bit.
But in my case I would use the first and last cogs from a 10 speed Veloce cassette and 9 speed cogs and 10 speed spacers in the interior. I would get the first cog with the built in 10 speed spacer and the last cog with the flange.
The flanged cog on the 10 speed Veloce cassette is the last cog. Campagnolo's website describes this. The thinnest 1.6 mm spacer goes just before this cog, in the last spot. And on 10 speed derailleurs supposedly the inner pulley cage has been thinned so it does not get as close to the spokes, since the last cog is now flanged towards the spokes a bit.
But in my case I would use the first and last cogs from a 10 speed Veloce cassette and 9 speed cogs and 10 speed spacers in the interior. I would get the first cog with the built in 10 speed spacer and the last cog with the flange.
Aha - now I know what I can do with my three old Veloce 9V cassettes - reuse most of the cogs since they have not been worn much. Didn't occur to me that it was only the spacers that were thinner on 10V, so I was about to give them to other people (I moved to 10V in November). Now you've saved me a packet of money - thanks Russell - and yes I'll look at the Campag website tonight. /Robert
The flanged cog on the 10 speed Veloce cassette is the last cog. Campagnolo's website describes this. The thinnest 1.6 mm spacer goes just before this cog, in the last spot. And on 10 speed derailleurs supposedly the inner pulley cage has been thinned so it does not get as close to the spokes, since the last cog is now flanged towards the spokes a bit.
But in my case I would use the first and last cogs from a 10 speed Veloce cassette and 9 speed cogs and 10 speed spacers in the interior. I would get the first cog with the built in 10 speed spacer and the last cog with the flange.
Aha - now I know what I can do with my three old Veloce 9V cassettes - reuse most of the cogs since they have not been worn much. Didn't occur to me that it was only the spacers that were thinner on 10V, so I was about to give them to other people (I moved to 10V in November). Now you've saved me a packet of money - thanks Russell - and yes I'll look at the Campag website tonight. /Robert
Money saving is my motivation. From overseas sources, 9 speed Veloce cassettes are half the price of 10 speed Veloce cassettes. $30 compared to $60. And since the first and last cog on a cassette never wear out, you can use the half price 9 speed Veloce cogs to replace the interior 8 cogs forever. Just keep on using the 10 speed first and last cog and the 10 speed spacers. And for me, the gearing is exactly what I want. 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29. No useless 11 or 12 tooth. Seven cog long straight block. Big 29 cog for a really low bailout gear.
Some of what I described is in the FAQ when looking at the Veloce 10 speed cogsets on the Campagnolo website. The spacer placement/thickness is described in the spare parts catalogs.
[email hidden] wrote: > Can I take the 13 tooth cog with built in ten speed 2.42 mm thickness > spacer from a Veloce 10 speed cassette, the 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 > individual cogs from a Veloce 9 speed cassette, the eight spacers from > a Veloce 10 speed cassette, and the 29 tooth cog from a Veloce 10 speed > cassette, and put it together (13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-29) and have > it work EXACTLY as an official complete from the factory Veloce 10 > speed cassette?
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Qui si parla Campagnolo said:
Nope. Probably shift ok when under no pedal force, that is turning the pedals but not a whole bunch of force. Remember cogs used to be pretty simple. Much simplier to buy a Veloce 10s 13-29 cogset I would say. The jump frpm 23 to 29 is a big one, don't expect it to shift like the 26-29 of a more normal 13-29, when under load.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Why "Nope."? Is it just nope to the 23 to 29 jump? That shift happens twice a year so its immaterial. My short cage Chorus rear derailleur makes a 23-28 shift well enough for the two times a year I make it. Will the 9 speed Veloce cogs take the place of the 10 speed Veloce cogs without any problems, if all of the spacers are 10 speed? Will the cog thickness difference between 9 and 10 speed, if it exists, cause any problems?
Robert said:
I believe that they are not completely interchangeable, although I have not tried swapping between Vel9 and Vel10. I have both Veloce 9 and Veloce 10. On the latter cassette (14-23) I notice that at least one of the cogs is slightly flanged close to the freehub. This will be worth a couple of tenths of a millimetre.
Campagnolo Ten cassette low gears are stepped 0.6mm -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
