Road bike fit..... (Long post)

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position. Since your
road bars are at the same height as the MTB, but your saddle is closer,
your position is way off.

Try to get your leg/hip/spine angle to be the same on the bikes. To do
this, start by getting your road saddle about in the middle of its
rails (good starting point). Then lower your bars until the angle at
your leg/hip/spine feels right. I know you're big on measuring, but I
would recommend that you do this by feel -- maybe measure to get close
at first.

Now you're going to feel like you're about to endo over the front of
the bike because the bars feel so low. Well, road bars are typically
lower than MTB bars for aerodynamics. Once you're out on the road,
under power, your arms will be unweighted by the force going through
your hips, giving your torso gets a boost.

If your frame is potentially too big, then the problem will present
itself in top tube plus stem length. For a starting point for this
adjustment, when you're in the drops, with a flat back (roll your hips
forward slightly), the bars should obscure the front hub in your line
of site. If this is close, then leave it alone and adjust stem length
later. If it's way off, you might consider getting a different stem
length (to move the bars closer to the hub in your line of site).

Hope this helps!

-Mike

Llatikcuf said:

MTB fits great, road not as well. Maybe I am not doing this correctly,
but I've tried to take measurements from my mountain bike and apply
them to my road bike. These are my bikes:

http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net

1.
I figured that my measurements for saddle position should be based on
center of the BB:
-Saddle height
BB center to saddle top
no problems here, same on both bikes - 73.5mm

-Saddle setback
I've held a level at BB center and made a mark on the top tube, then
held the level at the nose of the saddle and made another mark on the
top tube. The difference between the two lines would be the setback,
right?
MTB = 95mm (Seat rails at rear stop mark, saddle almost all the way
forward)
Road = 77mm (Seat rails all the way back, saddle pushed as far back as
possible)
Having a hard time here, 18mm / ¾" difference? The frame is not too
small, in fact it is almost too big. Pretty standard geometry on both.
Do I need more setback in my seat post (already have a Thomson setback
on both) or am I taking the wrong measurements? Both bikes are on level
surfaces, so while there might be some error I would say it's very
small. The MTB has 105mm of suspension and I figure the sag from rider
weight has to bring the seat forward a little.

2.
-Handlebar position
Both handlebars are ~1" lower than the seat. I had counted on taking
the measurement from the edge of the handlebar to front of seat on my
MTB and duplicating that on my road bike. Should this measurement on
the road bike be duplicated to the edge of the bar also, or should it
be to the hoods? Right now it is centered between the two.

Sorry for the long post, Thanks in advance,

-Nate

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position.

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Seems like saddle/BB/Kneecap is a mechanical thing that affects how your body
works to pedal, whereas reach is mostly an aerodynamic thing on a road bike.

?
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position.

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Yes it is. First the saddle position relative to the bottombracket THEN the
handlebar.

Quoted message said:

Seems like saddle/BB/Kneecap is a mechanical thing that affects how your

body

Quoted message said:

works to pedal, whereas reach is mostly an aerodynamic thing on a road

bike.

and your torso- and armlength of course.

Lou

Quoted message said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position. Since your
road bars are at the same height as the MTB, but your saddle is closer,
your position is way off.

I thought it was the other way around, set the saddle then adjust the
handlebar.

-Nate

Llatikcuf said:

I thought it was the other way around, set the saddle then adjust the handlebar.

Correct. First set the saddle level. Second, adjust saddle height so
your leg is slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke (hips not
rocking). Third, adjust fore/aft saddle position so that your forward
knee is over the pedal spindle with the pedals horizontal (KOPS) as a
starting point. Then experiment with handlebar height and reach. Fine
tune as needed.

Art Harris

Llatikcuf said:

-Saddle setback
I've held a level at BB center and made a mark on the top tube, then
held the level at the nose of the saddle and made another mark on the
top tube. The difference between the two lines would be the setback,
right?
MTB = 95mm (Seat rails at rear stop mark, saddle almost all the way
forward)
Road = 77mm (Seat rails all the way back, saddle pushed as far back as
possible)

I suspect that your MTB was not designed for such a tall fork, and that
is affecting your result there. The road bike seems right... it is the
MTB that seems extreme.

My saddle setback is only ~50mm... 73 deg seat angle, Thompson post, as
far back as I can get it.

Saddle setback effects how balanced you are in the seat while pedaling
in a variety of conditions. First off, make sure your seat is level. If
you have to pull a lot with your arms to keep from sliding back on
uphills, then I'd advise moving your seat forward. If you tend to slide
forward on the flats then try moving it back.

waterrockets said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position. Since your road
bars are at the same height as the MTB, but your saddle is closer, your
position is way off.

Try to get your leg/hip/spine angle to be the same on the bikes. To do
this, start by getting your road saddle about in the middle of its rails
(good starting point). Then lower your bars until the angle at your
leg/hip/spine feels right. I know you're big on measuring, but I would
recommend that you do this by feel -- maybe measure to get close at first.

Now you're going to feel like you're about to endo over the front of the
bike because the bars feel so low. Well, road bars are typically lower
than MTB bars for aerodynamics. Once you're out on the road, under power,
your arms will be unweighted by the force going through your hips, giving
your torso gets a boost.

Positioning on both my road and mountain bikes is almost the same. I have
about the same distance and drop between bars and saddle. Most
experienced riders I know have their bikes set up similarly.

However, we're all old-school XC mountain bikers.

Matt O.

Ron Ruff said:

I suspect that your MTB was not designed for such a tall fork, and that
is affecting your result there. The road bike seems right... it is the
MTB that seems extreme.

Litespeed speced a 80-100mm fork, mines a 105mm not too much of a
difference.

Quoted message said:

My saddle setback is only ~50mm... 73 deg seat angle, Thompson post, as
far back as I can get it.

Mine frame has a 72.5° seat angle. Pretty standard for a large frame.
Might be that I am 6' 4" 185lbs

-Nate

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position.

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Seems like saddle/BB/Kneecap is a mechanical thing that affects how your body
works to pedal, whereas reach is mostly an aerodynamic thing on a road bike.

I like a more rearward saddle position on my MTB, because it helps
with the long, grunting climbs that I often do off-road. I like to
move forward on my road bike because it helps me get in a more
comfortable, efficient "spinning position".

I can't say with any certainty just how much further back my MTB
saddle is, having never measured it, and due to the inevitable
differences in saddle design (which makes the nose an arbitrary
starting point, IMHO).

YM, of course, MV

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Most seatposts have 15-20mm offset and the Thomson I think has much less
than that which might be the problem. As for bar position try setting up
your brake hoods around the same distance as your mountain bike bar end
extensions by measuring from the point between your thumb and index finger,
that should give you a rough idea what stem you want to try.

"Llatikcuf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Ron Ruff said:

I suspect that your MTB was not designed for such a tall fork, and that
is affecting your result there. The road bike seems right... it is the
MTB that seems extreme.

Litespeed speced a 80-100mm fork, mines a 105mm not too much of a
difference.

Quoted message said:

My saddle setback is only ~50mm... 73 deg seat angle, Thompson post, as
far back as I can get it.

Mine frame has a 72.5° seat angle. Pretty standard for a large frame.
Might be that I am 6' 4" 185lbs

-Nate

Mark Hickey said:

I can't say with any certainty just how much further back my MTB
saddle is, having never measured it, and due to the inevitable
differences in saddle design (which makes the nose an arbitrary
starting point, IMHO).

The only reason I assumed I could use the nose as a point of reference
is because I have the same saddle on both bikes.

-Nate

Sorry everybody, what I meant was that your saddle setback and handle
bar position are "related." Poor word choice in there. But I also said
to start by setting the saddle, then moving the bars around, which is
right.

Although I do think that the whole BB/kneecap/plumb line thing is
silly. Does that mean you should move your saddle way forward when you
get to a hill? If you don't, the plumb line will fall behind the BB,
and then your position is all wrong.

I like to think of it as maintaining a proper average angle from leg to
hip to spine. As long as this angle is correct, you can rotate the
leg/hip/spine group a few degrees in pitch and be in perfect position.

-Mike

Llatikcuf said:

Quoted message said:

Your saddle setback is dependent on handle bar position. Since your
road bars are at the same height as the MTB, but your saddle is closer,
your position is way off.

I thought it was the other way around, set the saddle then adjust the
handlebar.

-Nate

Llatikcuf said:

Quoted message said:

My saddle setback is only ~50mm... 73 deg seat angle, Thompson post, as
far back as I can get it.

Mine frame has a 72.5° seat angle. Pretty standard for a large frame.
Might be that I am 6' 4" 185lbs

what seems odd to me is that your BB centre to seat distance is 73.5 cm
(i assume you meant cm not mm), which seems low for a 6'4" person. can
you check that again ?