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OT: Honor demanded he kill daughters, Pakistani man says

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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3 January 2006
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John Hanson
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  1. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/world/13504289.htm

    Posted on Thu, Dec. 29, 2005

    Honor demanded he kill daughters, Pakistani man says
    Hundreds of such cases reported each year

    BY KHALID TANVEER
    Associated Press

    MULTAN, Pakistan -Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he
    recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and
    their 25-year-old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" — a crime
    that shocked Pakistan.
    The 40-year old laborer, interviewed as he was being moved to prison,
    confessed to just one regret — that he didn't murder the stepsister's
    alleged lover, too.
    Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by the men of their families
    each year in this Islamic nation. Rights groups said Wednesday that
    such honor killings will only stop when authorities punish
    perpetrators.
    The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more
    than half of cases that make it to court, most end with cash
    settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under
    a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum
    death by hanging.
    Ahmed's killing spree — witnessed by his wife, Rehmat Bibi, as she
    cradled their 3-month-old baby son — happened Friday night at their
    home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab
    province.
    It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by
    the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during 2005.
    Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to
    the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a
    machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he
    then killed the three girls — Bano, 8; Sumaira, 7; and Humaira, 4 —
    pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his
    wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.
    "I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, said by
    phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but
    he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you."'
    "The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she
    said. The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.
    Speaking in the back of a police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was
    shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition.
    Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because
    she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want
    them to do the same when they grew up.
    He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers
    on Friday and hid them in the house, where he carried out the
    killings.
    "I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had
    done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his
    face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect
    but our honor."
    Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery — a
    claim made by her husband — the rights commission reported that
    according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had
    abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.
    Police do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged
    lover.
    Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother,
    who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is
    customary under Islamic tradition.
    Activists say police are reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes
    as family disputes.
    Statistics on honor killings are imprecise, but figures from the
    rights commission's Web site show a marked reduction in cases this
    year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all
    of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable
    figures.
    Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into
    Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death
    sentence if he is convicted.

  2. "John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/world/13504289.htm

    Posted on Thu, Dec. 29, 2005

    Honor demanded he kill daughters, Pakistani man says
    Hundreds of such cases reported each year

    BY KHALID TANVEER
    Associated Press

    MULTAN, Pakistan -Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he
    recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and
    their 25-year-old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" - a crime
    that shocked Pakistan.
    The 40-year old laborer, interviewed as he was being moved to prison,
    confessed to just one regret - that he didn't murder the stepsister's
    alleged lover, too.
    Hundreds of girls and women are murdered by the men of their families
    each year in this Islamic nation. Rights groups said Wednesday that
    such honor killings will only stop when authorities punish
    perpetrators.
    The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that in more
    than half of cases that make it to court, most end with cash
    settlements paid by relatives to the victims' families, although under
    a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum
    death by hanging.
    Ahmed's killing spree - witnessed by his wife, Rehmat Bibi, as she
    cradled their 3-month-old baby son - happened Friday night at their
    home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in eastern Punjab
    province.
    It is the latest of more than 260 such honor killings documented by
    the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during 2005.
    Bibi recounted how she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to
    the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and cut her throat with a
    machete. Bibi looked helplessly on from the corner of the room as he
    then killed the three girls - Bano, 8; Sumaira, 7; and Humaira, 4 -
    pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his
    wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.
    "I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, said by
    phone from the village. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters but
    he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you."'
    "The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me," she
    said. The next morning, Ahmed was arrested.
    Speaking in the back of a police pickup truck late Tuesday as he was
    shifted to a prison in the city of Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition.
    Appearing disheveled but composed, he said he killed Muqadas because
    she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn't want
    them to do the same when they grew up.
    He said he bought a butcher's knife and a machete after midday prayers
    on Friday and hid them in the house, where he carried out the
    killings.
    "I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had
    done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his
    face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect
    but our honor."
    Despite Ahmed's contention that Muqadas had committed adultery - a
    claim made by her husband - the rights commission reported that
    according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had
    abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory.
    Police do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged
    lover.
    Muqadas was Bibi's daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed's brother,
    who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother's widow, as is
    customary under Islamic tradition.
    Activists say police are reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes
    as family disputes.
    Statistics on honor killings are imprecise, but figures from the
    rights commission's Web site show a marked reduction in cases this
    year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all
    of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable
    figures.
    Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into
    Ahmed's case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death
    sentence if he is convicted.

    Why aren't the Feminists in this country upset about the oppression of women
    in Islam? We both know the answer to that John. However, if this was a
    Christian or politically conservative issue, they'd be all over it, along
    with Shaun Penn.

    Me? I'd push the button and make the entire area a sea of glass.

  3. Larry Hodges said:

    Why aren't the Feminists in this country upset about the oppression of women
    in Islam? We both know the answer to that John. However, if this was a
    Christian or politically conservative issue, they'd be all over it, along
    with Shaun Penn.

    You're such an idiot.

    Islam does not condone the killing of his daughters, anymore than
    Catholicism condones honor killings of adulterous wives. Violent,
    homicidal people exist in all religions and are equally scary in any
    situation. Kids get killed by their parents in the U.S., too, by people
    with no particular religious affiliation for whatever sick reason they
    dream up as an excuse.

    If you really want to read about women's rights under Islamic law I'd be
    happy to point you in the right direction. There are plenty of Feminist
    Islamic women and probably men as well.

    Dally

  4. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had


    done, so they should be eliminated," he said, his hands cuffed, his
    face unshaven. "We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect
    but our honor."
    Statistics on honor killings are imprecise, but figures from the
    rights commission's Web site show a marked reduction in cases this
    year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all
    of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable
    figures. <<

    Honor eh?

    If your culture is psychopathic how can you be judged insane or even
    criminal?

    Speak up Dally, your silence is deafening.

  5. Dally said:
    Larry Hodges said:

    Why aren't the Feminists in this country upset about the oppression of women
    in Islam? We both know the answer to that John. However, if this was a
    Christian or politically conservative issue, they'd be all over it, along
    with Shaun Penn.

    You're such an idiot.

    Islam does not condone the killing of his daughters, anymore than
    Catholicism condones honor killings of adulterous wives. Violent,
    homicidal people exist in all religions and are equally scary in any
    situation. Kids get killed by their parents in the U.S., too, by people
    with no particular religious affiliation for whatever sick reason they
    dream up as an excuse.

    If you really want to read about women's rights under Islamic law I'd be
    happy to point you in the right direction. There are plenty of Feminist
    Islamic women and probably men as well.

    Dally

    JSometimes a religion's sacred texts and traditions contain toxic
    material. Pointing these out and explicitly repudiating them would be
    the honorable thing to do, especially for an insider. Ignoring the
    existence of toxic material is not doing these religions a favor.

  6. On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:10:17 -0800, "Larry Hodges"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:


    Why aren't the Feminists in this country upset about the oppression of women
    in Islam? We both know the answer to that John. However, if this was a
    Christian or politically conservative issue, they'd be all over it, along
    with Shaun Penn.

    Me? I'd push the button and make the entire area a sea of glass.


    Remember, it takes two missile jocks to turn both keys, partner:-)

  7. On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:28:27 -0500, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:
    Larry Hodges said:

    Why aren't the Feminists in this country upset about the oppression of women
    in Islam? We both know the answer to that John. However, if this was a
    Christian or politically conservative issue, they'd be all over it, along
    with Shaun Penn.

    You're such an idiot.

    Islam does not condone the killing of his daughters, anymore than
    Catholicism condones honor killings of adulterous wives. Violent,
    homicidal people exist in all religions and are equally scary in any
    situation. Kids get killed by their parents in the U.S., too, by people
    with no particular religious affiliation for whatever sick reason they
    dream up as an excuse.

    If you really want to read about women's rights under Islamic law I'd be
    happy to point you in the right direction. There are plenty of Feminist
    Islamic women and probably men as well.


    "Statistics on honor killings are imprecise, but figures from the
    rights commission's Web site show a marked reduction in cases this
    year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all
    of 2004. The Ministry of Women's Development said it had no reliable
    figures."

    Yes, there are plenty of feminist Islamic women. There were at least
    267 of them in the first 11 months of 2005 and at least 579 of them in
    2004.

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