Google Group users

They won't do it, Dave

BOB
see how annoying it is?

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

Here's some more info on the subject:

-----------

WHY SHOULD I CARE?

Usenet etiquette (or Net Etiquette, or Netiquette) evolved as a way
to insure smooth communication between people using literally
hundreds of different systems, on different hardware.

You see certain message headers a certain way on Google Groups but
that's not the way everyone else sees them. You see certain
threading characteristics in Outlook Express, but that's not the way
everyone else sees them. You may be able to go back and read
articles you've already read in Mozilla Thunderbird, but some
readers "delete" messages by default once they've been read. There
are literally hundreds of thousands of different configurations of
different newsreaders.

In days gone by, it was often the case that you could read the
answer posted on Tuesday before you ever saw the question posted on
Monday. With today's higher network speeds, this is pretty rare,
but it pays to keep in mind that on servers off the beaten track,
it's still possible.

What do you make of a post consisting of the words, "I don't think I
agree in general. Point 3) seems especially nonsensical though I
actually do agree with 5)." Without context, such a post is
completely meaningless. Netiquette helps prevent such lack of
context.

For these reasons and many more, it is a really,
really, really good idea to learn and follow the
rules of Netiquette.

One of the better essays on this subject was posted
to news.newusers.questions. Although it covers e-mail
as well as usenet, it should be a must read for everyone
posting via google. Must read for anyone new to
usenet. Recommended even for old hands:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2551276C

For Google users:

You can quote text by clicking "Show Options" before
hitting "Reply." This will include the appropriate
attribution, as well as including the quoted text.

Simple rule to know what to keep and what to snip:
If it clarifies the article when viewed as a stand-
alone post, keep it.
If it clutters the post with extraneous content, lose
it.

When you hit "Post Message" it sometimes takes
while. Be patient. Don't repost when you don't see
your article after 30 seconds.

Remember, Netiquette is, at its root, all about clarity
in communication.

----------

nb

wait....what?

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

Here's something useful - a how-to.

Google groups users: don't hit the obviuos 'reply' button. Instead, hit
'options', then 'reply' there.

Then, trim some of the text (highlight and delete) so you're not
echoing 1000 lines just to add a 'me too'.

PS: My ISP (Rogers.com) just dropped news feeds. No reduction in
charges for their 'service', of course.)

Quoted message said:

For Google users:

You can quote text by clicking "Show Options" before
hitting "Reply." This will include the appropriate
attribution, as well as including the quoted text.

Simple rule to know what to keep and what to snip:
If it clarifies the article when viewed as a stand-
alone post, keep it.
If it clutters the post with extraneous content, lose
it.

When you hit "Post Message" it sometimes takes
while. Be patient. Don't repost when you don't see
your article after 30 seconds.

Remember, Netiquette is, at its root, all about clarity
in communication.

----------

nb

-----------------
Good information. But since your post was very long, additional advice
to Highlight, or blackout extraneous parts of your posting (which I
have done here) and then delete that, would have been helpful. Thank
you for the reminder to click on "Show Options" Very useful. Thank
you very much.
Nancree

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

I had no idea. I have wondered why so many people repeat quotes so
much...Thanks Dave![on my screen I can go back to the original
topic,and read all messages applicable to said 1st message..]

BOB said:

They won't do it, Dave

BOB
see how annoying it is?

Exactly. I'm posting this from Google Groups (GG) to demonstrate how
easy it is to post correctly according to usenet protocol. As was
stated, if a GGr wishes to post a reply, click on the "Show Options"
button. Then click on "Reply". The correct usenet posting format will
be preserved; and bonus points will be awarded if extraneous text is
deleted.

I would hat to see GG users become the next itieration of AOL and WebTV
---- those users learned the hard way.

davebugg said:

Exactly. I'm posting this from Google Groups (GG) to demonstrate how
easy it is to post correctly according to usenet protocol. As was
stated, if a GGr wishes to post a reply, click on the "Show Options"
button. Then click on "Reply". The correct usenet posting format will
be preserved; and bonus points will be awarded if extraneous text is
deleted.

I would hat to see GG users become the next itieration of AOL and WebTV
---- those users learned the hard way.

I use Google whether on the laptop or the rare occasions I use webtv.
I think some of the webtv posters that venture in here find it through
the webtv homepage entitled "Discussions." I think they believe when
they find this or any other group they are on the webtv firewalled
groups. I've seen a few complain they can't find the topic they had
posted to just a few minutes ago. This and all Google Groups look
entirely different on webtv. I can't speak for the AOL folks.

notbob said:

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

Here's some more info on the subject:

-----------

WHY SHOULD I CARE?

Usenet etiquette (or Net Etiquette, or Netiquette) evolved as a way
to insure smooth communication between people using literally
hundreds of different systems, on different hardware.

You see certain message headers a certain way on Google Groups but
that's not the way everyone else sees them. You see certain
threading characteristics in Outlook Express, but that's not the way
everyone else sees them. You may be able to go back and read
articles you've already read in Mozilla Thunderbird, but some
readers "delete" messages by default once they've been read. There
are literally hundreds of thousands of different configurations of
different newsreaders.

Thunderbird should probably become the standard because it's built by
consciencious people who aren't in any way motivated by profit. One of
these days I'll probably send them money. It was a few years before I
sent any money to my public radio station

Quoted message said:

In days gone by, it was often the case that you could read the
answer posted on Tuesday before you ever saw the question posted on
Monday. With today's higher network speeds, this is pretty rare,
but it pays to keep in mind that on servers off the beaten track,
it's still possible.

What do you make of a post consisting of the words, "I don't think I
agree in general. Point 3) seems especially nonsensical though I
actually do agree with 5)." Without context, such a post is
completely meaningless. Netiquette helps prevent such lack of
context.

For these reasons and many more, it is a really,
really, really good idea to learn and follow the
rules of Netiquette.

One of the better essays on this subject was posted
to news.newusers.questions. Although it covers e-mail
as well as usenet, it should be a must read for everyone
posting via google. Must read for anyone new to
usenet. Recommended even for old hands:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P2551276C

For Google users:

You can quote text by clicking "Show Options" before
hitting "Reply." This will include the appropriate
attribution, as well as including the quoted text.

Yes, with Google Groups you should ALWAYS choose "Show Options,"
instead of just using the "Reply" button. Google should do away with
that button. Also, their newsfeed doesn't allow one to see all posts.
I can't see my own posts through my ISP's newsclient, nor those of a
friend.
C'mon Google. Don't be evil.

Quoted message said:

Simple rule to know what to keep and what to snip:
If it clarifies the article when viewed as a stand-
alone post, keep it.
If it clutters the post with extraneous content, lose
it.

When you hit "Post Message" it sometimes takes
while. Be patient. Don't repost when you don't see
your article after 30 seconds.

Remember, Netiquette is, at its root, all about clarity
in communication.

Thanks. I couldn't have said it better myself.

All your efforts will probably do little good, and I bet someone will
top post a reply 🙂

Quoted message said:

----------

nb

--Bryan

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

I always quote some text, but you'll get more satisfactory results
if you just have your newsreader not delete read messages, and
only show you threads with unread messages. Disk space is cheap
nowdays and for a text group, that space is extremely negligible.

The problem is not specific to Google Groups. It a user-thang and
that means you'll never get your preferences.

-sw

BoboBonobo said:

........, and I bet someone will
top post a reply 🙂

ROTFLOL!!!

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Yeah, you tell 'em.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

Good advice. Note, however, that most newsreaders do not in fact delete
read messages, they just mark them as "read". The messages in fact live
on a newserver, and you *cannot* delete them, since they don't belong to
you. Your newsreader just keeps track of what you have read, and
doesn't show you anything you have already seen. There is often a way
to show them. I don't know how to do that in Outlook, though. Still,
if someone doesn't quote, I very seldom take the time to find out what
they are replying to.

--
Dan Abel
[email hidden]
Petaluma, California, USA

In article <[email hidden]>,

itsjoannotjoann said:

I use Google whether on the laptop or the rare occasions I use webtv.
I think some of the webtv posters that venture in here find it through
the webtv homepage entitled "Discussions." I think they believe when
they find this or any other group they are on the webtv firewalled
groups. I've seen a few complain they can't find the topic they had
posted to just a few minutes ago. This and all Google Groups look
entirely different on webtv. I can't speak for the AOL folks.

Time for the next step in your education, Joan. You figured out that
this isn't WebTV. Great. The next step is to figure out that this
isn't part of Google Groups either. And it's not AOL either.

All of those three are just ways to access these groups. And most of us
don't use any of those three methods to access newsgroups. I have a
dedicated program on my Mac for nothing but accessing newsgroups.

--
Dan Abel
[email hidden]
Petaluma, California, USA

"Dan Abel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most

newsreaders

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it

appears

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the

time to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do it right.

Good advice. Note, however, that most newsreaders do not in fact delete
read messages, they just mark them as "read". The messages in fact live
on a newserver, and you *cannot* delete them, since they don't belong to
you. Your newsreader just keeps track of what you have read, and
doesn't show you anything you have already seen. There is often a way
to show them. I don't know how to do that in Outlook, though. Still,
if someone doesn't quote, I very seldom take the time to find out what
they are replying to.

The newsreader is just downloading a local copy of messages from the news
server, so one can actually delete messages from their own local copy even
if the news server retains messages for a much longer period of time.

I use Outlook Express, and it works like this...

Automatic message deletion after being read:

1. Tools | Options...
2. Click the Maintenance tab
3. Make sure the Compact messages in the background checkbox is marked
4. The Delete read message bodies in newsgroups, checkbox, Delete news
messages <x> days after being downloaded checkbox, and Compact messages when
there is <x> percent wasted space option all become available for use.

Manual message deletion at any time:

1. Tools | Options...
2. Click the Maintenance tab
3. Click Clean Up Now
4a. Click Delete (to delete message headers and message bodies),

or

4b. Click Reset (to delete message headers and message bodies and flag the
newsgroup to re-download copies of all available messages on the news
server).

Also, as far as showing all messages in Outlook Express/Outlook Newsreader,
including those that have already been read:

1. Click on a newsgroup in the left pane
2. View | Current View > Show All Messages.

To re-hide read messages after showing all messages:

1a. View | Current View > Hide Read Messages

or

1b. View | Current View > Hide Read or Ignored Messages.

Use of option 1b is the recommended option if any discussion threads are
marked Ignore Conversation, or if any "killfile" (Blocked Senders/Ignore
Post) rules are set up.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daniel W. Rouse Jr. said:

"Dan Abel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good advice. Note, however, that most newsreaders do not in fact delete
read messages, they just mark them as "read". The messages in fact live
on a newserver, and you *cannot* delete them, since they don't belong to
you. Your newsreader just keeps track of what you have read, and

Quoted message said:

The newsreader is just downloading a local copy of messages from the news
server, so one can actually delete messages from their own local copy even
if the news server retains messages for a much longer period of time.

I use Outlook Express, and it works like this...

Interesting. Since Outlook is much more used than my newsreader, please
delete what I posted from your minds.

:-)

My newsreader doesn't save a local copy of posts unless I explicitly
issue a SAVE command. There is no way I can see to tell it to
automatically save a local copy of what I read or download.

--
Dan Abel
[email hidden]
Petaluma, California, USA

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

While I agree that they should take the time to do it right (which many
people have demonstrated is easy enough to do), perhaps those who have
their newsreaders set to automatically delete read posts should
reconfigure their settings too. Google Groups users don't need to make
up for your shortcomings. Real news readers are threaded for a reason
and you're defeting the purpose by automatically deleting read
messages. If you're interested in it, wait until the thread is dead or
has drifted afar to delete.

BOB said:

Dave Bugg said:

Those of you who use Google Groups instead of a real newsreader need to
start quoting a bit of the text you are replying to. Since most newsreaders
are configured to delete previously read messages in a thread, it appears
that you are replying to something out of thin air. Please take the time to
do it right.

Quoted message said:

They won't do it, Dave

Quoted message said:

BOB
see how annoying it is?

Well, I already knew. That's why I put Dave's words in. <g>
To be fair, a lot of Google Groups users either don't know how to
configure it to quote, or don't even know there is such an option.
(I don't know how, either--but I'd puzzle it out were I to post from
there)

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge

Dan Abel said:

Time for the next step in your education, Joan. You figured out that
this isn't WebTV. Great. The next step is to figure out that this
isn't part of Google Groups either. And it's not AOL either.

All of those three are just ways to access these groups.

Correction. Two of them are. AOL dropped Usenet last spring.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge