knee pain

Perhaps lacking that hint of a smile, hintofsmile

Quoted message said:

I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
another client. Let me know what you think:

I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."

On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.

I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
bothered.

However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
speed with a slight limp.

I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).

Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
above.

I hate it when sh!t's not snipped, but I'm leaving your entire message
in place because maybe someone else will see it who has missed the
original. Aaaaanyway, how old are you? (That seems to be my first
question of late with every response I make.)

The reason I ask is that, as a 43-year-old, I have occasional knee
pain, however I've never gone to a doctor or chiropractor for their
advice.

I do visit a fantastic chiro in Lemoyne, PA, USA - Brian Becker of
Becker Chiropractic, but that's been - fortunately - only for upper
back/shoulder pain. The pain (on my initial visit) was great, imo, and
radiated to my right shoulder. Chiro was like magic. The pain
literally disappeared after his first manipulation. It was like a
lightswitch being flicked. Pain? Gone!

So, I'm a fan of chiro, however I'd also be skeptical, though, that
the knee pain would come from your spine. (Then again, I do believe
that shoulder pain certainly radiated from my spine, so...)

Can you clarify the dates? This injury took place in June or July of
2005 - this year, right?

How much time have you taken off from lifting? Sometimes rest is
required. When I get the occasional knee twinge, I'll lay off the
squats. And, yes, the twinge has resulted in some limping at times.
I've never gone the accu, chiro, x-ray route, but then my pain may not
have been as severe as your pain.

I agree with you on your suspicion or thoughts like, "HE JUST WANTS MY
MONEY!" wrt the chiropractor, however I guess it wouldn't hurt to
follow his recommendations - especially if you have health coverage.

I would have taken a rest from training, however, initially, before
seeking out the docs.

And, yeah, I asked the age question as it's important to realize that
forty is different from twenty. Where have the years gone? Regardless,
*Eat, Sleep, Train, Repeat* still applies! Best of luck and please
report back on your progress.

--

Well dumbass, did he also give you treatment options? Why ask these
simple neandrethals? They can't stop abusing themselves long enough to
reply.
Listen to your chiros advice.

hintofsmile said:

I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me

Almost certainly. Most of chiropractic has no scientific basis beyond
that taken from legitimate physiotherapists. Has he tried to tell you he
can cure your kid's ADHD by 'manipulating the plates of his skull' yet?
That'll cure the kid...of everything, including living.

Quoted message said:

just so he can keep
another client.

That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
are yours is a bad one.

Quoted message said:

Let me know what you think:

I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray

Probably completely unnecessary for you, but it'll help keep his pockets
well lined.

Quoted message said:

and
found "right sacroiliac joint fixation

I hope he wasn't x-raying your knees to find this...? It's also BS:
sacroiliac joints that are not pretty darn well fixed are a recipy for pain.

Quoted message said:

causing bio-mechanical strain to
lower extremities.

And exactly how was this happening?

Quoted message said:

Subluxation of 5th lumbar." On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg.

While subluxations are kinda the chiropractic version of the bogey man,
used to frighten clients into unnecessary and costly fake treatments,
what you describe could be serious, and seriously aggrivated by
chiropractic manipulation. Take the x-rays to a medical doctor. If the
vertebrae is wonky enough to stuff with your legs, and it would have to
be EXTREMELY off in most cases, you could be having some spinal cord
compression.

Quoted message said:

While I
can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
pain,

Generally it's the sciatic nerve that causes the leg shooting pain, not
the SI joint. SI joint shooting pain feels like someone is pushing a
nail into your SI joint.

Quoted message said:

I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.

See a real doctor.

Quoted message said:

I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
bothered.

However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
speed with a slight limp.

Could very well be a back problem, especially considering you've said
your "legs have been weaker and unsteady in
general". See a doctor.

Quoted message said:

I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).

See a rheumatologist. Orthopaedic surgeons don't see anything wrong
unless they can operate on it :-)

Quoted message said:

Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
above.

See a rheumatologist. A chiropractor could do a lot more harm than just
lightening your wallet.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
are yours is a bad one.

<snip>

Ari, woah. Where do you cull that negative opinion. And how do you
verify or define *a minority of really good chiropractors*?

Perhaps I've just been very lucky in finding a chiropractor who I
consider is /a good one/.

The first visit was courtesy of a coupon in a local coupon clipper
magazine. Didn't cost me a nickel. It worked. Immediately pain relief.
And I wasn't encouraged to come back over and over again.

I go very irregularly. I'd love to know how many times I've gone, but
I wouldn't be surprised if it is only a total of ten times over the
last several years.

Chiropactic never had any appeal to me although family members did
visit a man named Dr. Mudryk (spelling) in Clay, PA, USA. Just seemed
like hocus pocus, but I'm a believer now and would encourage anyone to
visit one in their area depending on what their ailment is.

Compound fracture? Probably not.

Lower back pain? Probably so.

ADHD in yer kid? Probably not.

Pain radiating to your shoulder? Absolutely.

Common sense would seem to apply rather than a negative outlook based
on a lack of experience. Or have you been to all the chiropractors in
your area with, sadly, negative outcomes?

--

Curt James said:

spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
are yours is a bad one.

<snip>

Ari, woah. Where do you cull that negative opinion. And how do you
verify or define *a minority of really good chiropractors*?

I don't fall for cultish pseudo science 'homeopathic' type cultish BS.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I've just been very lucky in finding a chiropractor who I
consider is /a good one/.

I found a good one once. There was still a smattering of chiro BS, but
he was a good one.

Quoted message said:

The first visit was courtesy of a coupon in a local coupon clipper
magazine. Didn't cost me a nickel. It worked. Immediately pain relief.
And I wasn't encouraged to come back over and over again.

Then you probably found a good one. Most recommend 'regular chiropractic
adjustments to ensure proper nerve conduction and good health', sorta
like narcotics peddlers who get you hooked on a transient feeling of
relief and then keep you coming back.

Quoted message said:

I go very irregularly. I'd love to know how many times I've gone, but
I wouldn't be surprised if it is only a total of ten times over the
last several years.

Chiropactic never had any appeal to me although family members did
visit a man named Dr. Mudryk (spelling) in Clay, PA, USA. Just seemed
like hocus pocus, but I'm a believer now and would encourage anyone to
visit one in their area depending on what their ailment is.

You should also encourage them to be wary, especially with children.
That adjusting the skull plates bit is an actual line from cultish chiros.

Quoted message said:

Compound fracture? Probably not.

Why not, one tried to 'fix' my broken hip with that clicky device gimick
that does nothing.

Quoted message said:

Lower back pain? Probably so.

A good chiro will give you exercises and such to help keep you healthy
out of his office for this after your visit.

Quoted message said:

ADHD in yer kid? Probably not.

Pain radiating to your shoulder? Absolutely.

As above with the low back pain.

Quoted message said:

Common sense would seem to apply rather than a negative outlook based
on a lack of experience. Or have you been to all the chiropractors in
your area with, sadly, negative outcomes?

No, just on a couple of continents as well as with negative experiences
from friends and family. Out of it all, there was that one good one, a
long long time ago in a country far, far away.

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

I should also add that a chiropractor has absolutely no business taking
or ordering x-rays. They are not trained radiologists and will miss
serious health issues. X-rays at a chiros office are used to line their
pockets. If they really want x-rays, have them work with your GP to
order them and get them properly evaluated. That one good chiro I
mentioned, he used x-rays ordered by a doctor and evaluated by a
radiologist. I'm not sure which qualification he got first,
physiotherapist or chiropractor.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"hintofsmile" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
another client. Let me know what you think:

I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."

On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.

I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
bothered.

However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
speed with a slight limp.

I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).

Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
above.

Most chiropractors are just hucksters practicing magick and physical
therapy. Although this is not true for all chiropractors. Some are sexual
deviants as well.

ATP* said:

Most chiropractors are just hucksters practicing magick and physical
therapy. Although this is not true for all chiropractors. Some are sexual
deviants as well.

So much for balanced and nuanced, eh?

Never mind.

--

Where did all this negative [censored] come from? Every profession has its
jerks and losers, but dont put all of us in here!
You wouldnt dare tell this BS to the lady with the aortic aneurism, and
the lady with the Cardiac Condition (SubclavianSteal) I diagnosed in my
office on Tuesday. Thats just 2 patients one day.

And Spodosaurus, did you know that Essentials Of Skeletal Radiology
was written by a DC, and is used in most Med Schools and Teaching
Hospitals?

Did you also know that we REGULARLY receive direct referrals from
PCPs, Neurolgists and Neurosurgeons, serve on the staff of many
hospitals, write texts, do research.

Oh, BTW, the feds are now studying (with grant$) the remarkable
results with some learning disabled and ADHD children. Should I go on?
The bottom line is a bad doc is a bad doc, no matter what their degree.

hintofsmile said:

I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
another client. Let me know what you think:

sounds to me like a crock from a crank. why did you even bother to go to
one of these fakers?

Spunkysoreass once got it up the wazoo by a very angry chiropractor,
and has yet to forgive the profession as a whole. He's a idiot, and a
jerk, ignore him.

Here's more proof he's a [censored]. First he lists off a stupid rant that
one chiro used to say, about how he can cure everything. No chiro,
anywhere with modern training would attempt to adjust the plates in
your kids skull.
Next, they have every reason in the world to order Xrays, since if you
have a fused vertebrae (from birth) and he tries to adjust it, he'd
break your back.
As I said, spunkysoreass is a mean, nasty, little [censored], with no
knowledge of chiros.

Quoted message said:

Some are sexual deviants as well.>

Don't talk like that about your dad.

"hintofsmile" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
another client. Let me know what you think:

I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."

On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.

I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
bothered.

However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
speed with a slight limp.

I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).

Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
above.

If you'll forgive a simple but hopefully very effective suggestion, try
putting your knee through a full range of motion for reps every day, even
more than once a day. Something like bodyweight squats, either flat-footed
or up on your toes at the bottom, but full range - thighs resting on calves.
Be sure your knees and feet track in the same direction, and see if a few
days of this - build up gradually, of course - doesn't make you feel better.
One of the biggest reasons for joint problems is lack of use, such as you
describe following injury.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

And Spodosaurus, did you know>

No, he really doesn't, and he's a [censored] anyway.

Curt James said:

Perhaps lacking that hint of a smile, hintofsmile

Aye.

Quoted message said:

Aaaaanyway, how old are you? (That seems to be my first
question of late with every response I make.)

I'm 21.

Quoted message said:

Can you clarify the dates? This injury took place in June or July of
2005 - this year, right?

Happened gradually between August and September. I started lifting in
July. By August I was doing 140 lb deadlifts (I'm 6'1, 160 lbs). By
September I was lifting 160 lbs. Like I said, I neglected the strain
on my lower back 'cause I thought it'd heal on its own.

Quoted message said:

How much time have you taken off from lifting?

I stopped lifting in the beginning of October. I've actually stopped
exercising altogether, trying to minimize the use of my legs.

Quoted message said:

Well dumbass, did he also give you treatment options? Why ask these
simple neandrethals? They can't stop abusing themselves long enough to
reply.
Listen to your chiros advice.

I've gone to this chiro 3 times. On each visit, he feels around my
spine, observes the range of motion of my legs, then has me lay on my
side while he jerks my torso forward and my hip back. That's it. I'm
usually in and out of his office within 20 minutes.

spodosaurus said:

I should also add that a chiropractor has absolutely no business taking
or ordering x-rays. They are not trained radiologists and will miss
serious health issues. X-rays at a chiros office are used to line their
pockets. If they really want x-rays, have them work with your GP to
order them and get them properly evaluated. That one good chiro I
mentioned, he used x-rays ordered by a doctor and evaluated by a
radiologist. I'm not sure which qualification he got first,
physiotherapist or chiropractor.

Cheers,

Ari

I did ask him to borrow or take copies of the X-ray films to show my
other doctors. He said the doctor would have to fax him the request to
get the films. That's when I started to get really skeptical about
this guy.

Quoted message said:

If you'll forgive a simple but hopefully very effective suggestion, try
putting your knee through a full range of motion for reps every day, even
more than once a day. Something like bodyweight squats, either flat-footed
or up on your toes at the bottom, but full range - thighs resting on calves.
Be sure your knees and feet track in the same direction, and see if a few
days of this - build up gradually, of course - doesn't make you feel better.
One of the biggest reasons for joint problems is lack of use, such as you
describe following injury.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Thanks for the suggestion. It *did* occur to me that the weakness in
my legs is from lack of use. But going full range (thighs on calves),
in my current condition will definitely be painful on the knees. I've
tried. Still, I'll try building gradually.