Time to Pay!

In article <[email hidden]>, amacmil304
@aol.com says...

Quoted message said:

Time to Pay!

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way but I would suggest
that £1 a day is well below the market value.

Walkers should accept that almost all other sports and pastimes have
to pay for the upkeep of their facilities and that it should not be up
to the taxpayer to foot their bill. Indeed, I would suggest that all
walkers should be obliged to buy an annual licence of perhaps £100

So define "walker" would it be somebody not using powered transport to
go to the corner shop for instance? What about anyone who walks over a
set distance during a year, that'd bugger the postal service possibly. I
do like these hare-brained schemes posted by those who haven't taken any
time whatsoever to think of the logistics.
--
Craig Oldfield

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:14:36 +0000, [email hidden] dropped their

trousers and said:

Time to Pay!

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way but I would suggest
that £1 a day is well below the market value.

Walkers should accept that almost all other sports and pastimes have
to pay for the upkeep of their facilities and that it should not be up
to the taxpayer to foot their bill. Indeed, I would suggest that all
walkers should be obliged to buy an annual licence of perhaps £100
which could include a mandatory insurance for the repair of damage to
private property and for search and rescue costs when the need arises.
If the Ramblers Association object to these charges, perhaps they
should be asked to underwrite the cost or alternatively give free
membership to their members so that the money they receive could be
paid towards the upkeep of the countryside.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

What you say is very valid, look forward to many replies, but I can't
support you, not with those's associated sites after your signature...
Dewi
(No cord around the neck please...)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Angus Macmillan

There are trolls...

and nasty trolls.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Angus Macmillan

There are trolls...

and nasty trolls.

And obvious trolls.
--
Craig Oldfield

Pity you didn't actually read the article in the Herald which said that
the WHW contributes over £3.5M pa to the local economy, while only
costing £0.5M pa for repairs etc. That means that "the taxpayer" isn't
actually doing too badly from the existing arrangement.

CC

In article <MPG.1e1c5ebfb92f38de989a7c@localhost>, Craig Oldfield
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Angus Macmillan

There are trolls...

and nasty trolls.

And obvious trolls.

Not to mention this particular one who admits to driving 5 miles in his
Range Rover to get his Sunday newspapers :-(

--
Malcolm

Whilst ambling through uk.rec.walking
on Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:14:36 +0000
I overheard Angus Macmillan <[email hidden]>
state in <news:[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Time to Pay!

Yup, it is about time Time paid its way.

Quoted message said:

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way

Where was this suggestion, Angus? Would you care to be a little more
specific?

And a Happy Christmas to you too, Angus. Did Santa bring you anything
you are desperately in need of?

--
The moral high ground seems to consist of lots of hummocks separated by
bottomless morass.
{sarah, uk.food+drink.misc 11-Aug-2005}

On 28 Dec 2005 01:51:57 -0800, "druidh" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Pity you didn't actually read the article in the Herald which said that
| the WHW contributes over £3.5M pa to the local economy, while only
| costing £0.5M pa for repairs etc. That means that "the taxpayer" isn't
| actually doing too badly from the existing arrangement.

But not everything contributed to the local economy goes to "the
taxpayer" or things paid for by the taxpayer. Most goes to private
businesses, who pay taxes, which must pay for a lot of other things,
schools, hospitals, roads and the like. So "the taxpayer" is
probably making a loss on the deal.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Some of my Hobbies: VDU Glasses
http://tinyurl.com/c3lh, Wordlists http://tinyurl.com/c3lj, Celtic fonts
http://tinyurl.com/c3ll, Killfile&Anti Troll FAQs http://tinyurl.com/c3lo
Tyke Dialect http://tinyurl.com/c3ls Curry Project, http://tinyurl.com/1q6

Dave Fawthrop said:

But not everything contributed to the local economy goes to "the
taxpayer" or things paid for by the taxpayer. Most goes to private
businesses, who pay taxes, which must pay for a lot of other things,
schools, hospitals, roads and the like. So "the taxpayer" is
probably making a loss on the deal.

Sounds to me like "the taxpayer" is breaking even. I suspect if you ask
the local businesses that are paying tax if they'd prefer less business
then the answer would be "no", since a lot of a region's riches will be
in the flow of money around it, rather than how much Joe Taxpayer has in
his bank account right now.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Craig Oldfield said:

In article <[email hidden]>, amacmil304
@aol.com says...

Quoted message said:

Time to Pay!

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way but I would suggest
that £1 a day is well below the market value.

Walkers should accept that almost all other sports and pastimes have
to pay for the upkeep of their facilities and that it should not be up
to the taxpayer to foot their bill. Indeed, I would suggest that all
walkers should be obliged to buy an annual licence of perhaps £100

So define "walker" would it be somebody not using powered transport to
go to the corner shop for instance? What about anyone who walks over a
set distance during a year, that'd bugger the postal service possibly. I
do like these hare-brained schemes posted by those who haven't taken any
time whatsoever to think of the logistics.

I think a walker could be quite easily defined as someone who walks
for leisure purposes, without invitation, over ground owned by other
than themselves. There's a start. It could probably be expanded.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

Malcolm said:

In article <MPG.1e1c5ebfb92f38de989a7c@localhost>, Craig Oldfield
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

>>Angus Macmillan

There are trolls...

and nasty trolls.

And obvious trolls.

Not to mention this particular one who admits to driving 5 miles in his
Range Rover to get his Sunday newspapers :-(

For which I pay road and fuel tax.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:13:10 +0000, Bootlaces <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Whilst ambling through uk.rec.walking
on Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:14:36 +0000
I overheard Angus Macmillan <[email hidden]>
state in <news:[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Time to Pay!

Yup, it is about time Time paid its way.

Quoted message said:

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way

Where was this suggestion, Angus? Would you care to be a little more
specific?

It was in yesterday's (Glasgow) Herald. Here's the url but be quick
they take it off after a day and charge for access thereafter.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/53223.shtml

Quoted message said:

And a Happy Christmas to you too, Angus. Did Santa bring you anything
you are desperately in need of?

Merry Christmas.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

On 28 Dec 2005 01:51:57 -0800, "druidh" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Pity you didn't actually read the article in the Herald which said that
the WHW contributes over £3.5M pa to the local economy, while only
costing £0.5M pa for repairs etc. That means that "the taxpayer" isn't
actually doing too badly from the existing arrangement.

CC

I did, but you're missing the point. Most other sports and activities
involving thousands of people have a benefit to local economies as
well but they pay for their facilities. Take football for instance.
Spectators pay for the use of the facilities and there can be a
massive boost for a local economy from a large match.

What I'm suggesting is that walkers should pay for their facilities
the same most other, which would have the benefit of the taxpayers'
money going towards essential services rather than going towards
maintaining their facilities. I think that's quite a reasonable
suggestion.

In any case walkers are probably among the stingiest spenders of most
tourists. Many carry their own supplies, buy minimal produce from the
cheapest outlets, wild camp for free, and leave their cards under a
stone.

As I said " Time to Pay".

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

Quoted message said:

Craig Oldfield said:

In article <[email hidden]>, amacmil304
@aol.com says...

Quoted message said:

Time to Pay!

I am interested to see that there has been a suggeation that walkers
should pay for their use of the West Highlland Way but I would suggest
that £1 a day is well below the market value.

Walkers should accept that almost all other sports and pastimes have
to pay for the upkeep of their facilities and that it should not be up
to the taxpayer to foot their bill. Indeed, I would suggest that all
walkers should be obliged to buy an annual licence of perhaps £100

So define "walker" would it be somebody not using powered transport to
go to the corner shop for instance? What about anyone who walks over a
set distance during a year, that'd bugger the postal service possibly. I
do like these hare-brained schemes posted by those who haven't taken any
time whatsoever to think of the logistics.

I think a walker could be quite easily defined as someone who walks
for leisure purposes, without invitation, over ground owned by other
than themselves. There's a start. It could probably be expanded.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

Far too complicated. A (further) tax on red socks would be much
simpler.
--

Paul Rooney

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:50:45 GMT, Craig Oldfield
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So define "walker" would it be somebody not using powered transport to
go to the corner shop for instance? What about anyone who walks over a
set distance during a year, that'd bugger the postal service possibly. I
do like these hare-brained schemes posted by those who haven't taken any
time whatsoever to think of the logistics.

Quoted message said:

I think a walker could be quite easily defined as someone who walks
for leisure purposes, without invitation, over ground owned by other
than themselves. There's a start. It could probably be expanded.

Hard to police though. If someone stops me and asks me to pay up and I
claim that I wasn't walking for leisure purposes how can the jury
decide whether I'm lying?

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:50:45 GMT, Craig Oldfield
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So define "walker" would it be somebody not using powered transport to
go to the corner shop for instance? What about anyone who walks over a
set distance during a year, that'd bugger the postal service possibly. I
do like these hare-brained schemes posted by those who haven't taken any
time whatsoever to think of the logistics.

Quoted message said:

I think a walker could be quite easily defined as someone who walks
for leisure purposes, without invitation, over ground owned by other
than themselves. There's a start. It could probably be expanded.

Hard to police though. If someone stops me and asks me to pay up and I
claim that I wasn't walking for leisure purposes how can the jury
decide whether I'm lying?

Very easy to police with a £100 annual licence. You might get away
with it once or twice but there would be many circumstances where it
would be well nigh impossible to deny you were out walking for
leisure. A mandatory fine similar to that of having no road tax on a
car would focus the mind on honesty :-)

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

Quoted message said:

I did, but you're missing the point. Most other sports and activities
involving thousands of people have a benefit to local economies as
well but they pay for their facilities. Take football for instance.
Spectators pay for the use of the facilities and there can be a
massive boost for a local economy from a large match.

But to cover the WHW you are simply exercising a legal right of access.
What you don't have a legal right to do is flatten a large area, paint
white lines on the new turf and erect stadia to house the spectators.
Or put simply, you're not using "facilities" when you exercise your
access rights.

Quoted message said:

What I'm suggesting is that walkers should pay for their facilities
the same most other, which would have the benefit of the taxpayers'
money going towards essential services rather than going towards
maintaining their facilities. I think that's quite a reasonable
suggestion.

What facilities?

You might think it's reasonable, but since you're clearly not, so what?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

I did, but you're missing the point. Most other sports and activities
involving thousands of people have a benefit to local economies as
well but they pay for their facilities. Take football for instance.
Spectators pay for the use of the facilities and there can be a
massive boost for a local economy from a large match.

But to cover the WHW you are simply exercising a legal right of access.

Sure, but someone has to pay for the upkeep. Why not those who use
it?

Quoted message said:

What you don't have a legal right to do is flatten a large area, paint
white lines on the new turf and erect stadia to house the spectators.

Of course you do. Never heard of planning permission?

Quoted message said:

Or put simply, you're not using "facilities" when you exercise your
access rights.

Of course you are. You're using the facilities provided by nature
wihich need to be maintained.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I'm suggesting is that walkers should pay for their facilities
the same most other, which would have the benefit of the taxpayers'
money going towards essential services rather than going towards
maintaining their facilities. I think that's quite a reasonable
suggestion.

What facilities?

See above.

Quoted message said:

You might think it's reasonable, but since you're clearly not, so what?

Pete.

I think I'm being very reasonable. Why should walkers not pay for the
maintenance of the countryside. It has now been clearly established
that walking does cause damage, so it is unreasonable for you to think
that others should pay for the damage caused by your activity. Don't
you think?

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

You do have a point about the number of walkers who do NOT contribute
to rural communities. I've done it myself on occasion - you fill the
car before leaving home, you've bought all your supplies, you arrive
early in the morning and leave in the evening and have probably spent
no time in the area and spoken to no-one local. However, this is offset
by the weekend trips to further flung communities (Ullapool, Skye,
Torridon, Braemar etc) when I'll likely be in the pub / hotel /
restaurant of an evening, I'll be buying papers, sarnies, juice from
the corner shop and probably filling the tank again. Overall, I'm
probably still contributing a fair deal.

Of course, if the locals did all their shopping locally instead of
heading to the cheap supermarkets in Inverness, that would make a
difference too!!

As regards provision and upkeep of walking "facilities", the Scottish
Executive has already made this the responsibility of the local
councils. Given the current state of health of the average
Scotsman/woman, a few pounds spent on promoting a healthier lifestyle
will pay dividends in reducing long-term healthcare costs.

druidh