thoughts on carbon stems

Josh said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been
switching off some older stems to settle down on a size and I think
i'm set now. So the question is, does a carbon stem really matter
that much? They're not actually saving any weight over the ultralight
alloy, and the most important issue here is stiffness. I have so much
vibration dampening at this point that is doesn't matter too much.

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

Of all the components that are made in carbon nowadays, I think a stem is
the last one I would choose. Lots of wear and pressure concentrated in a
very small area; why use something that could fail catastrophically
(especially if it's not even any lighter)?

Bill "alloy...four bolts" S.

"Josh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been switching off
some older stems to settle down on a size and I think i'm set now. So the
question is, does a carbon stem really matter that much? They're not
actually saving any weight over the ultralight alloy, and the most
important issue here is stiffness. I have so much vibration dampening at
this point that is doesn't matter too much.

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

I think that only a few of the carbon stems out there really are carbon,
similar to cranks. There's an inner core of alumi-scamdium, and a thin
cosmetic weave of carbon on the outside.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Josh said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been switching off
some older stems to settle down on a size and I think i'm set now. So the
question is, does a carbon stem really matter that much? They're not
actually saving any weight over the ultralight alloy, and the most important
issue here is stiffness. I have so much vibration dampening at this point
that is doesn't matter too much.

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

Not in my opinion, worth ity at all. The seatpost and stem are
something to attach the saddle and handlebars to...not a whole lot
more. Pretty hard to have a really flexy aluminum stem w/o it
breaking..

I'd say spend less $ on the stem, get a stiff one, the weight addition
is teeny compared to a light one...go ride.

Bill Sornson said:

Of all the components that are made in carbon nowadays, I think a stem is
the last one I would choose. Lots of wear and pressure concentrated in a
very small area; why use something that could fail catastrophically
(especially if it's not even any lighter)?

Bill "alloy...four bolts" S.

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| I wouldn't try to save weight on handlebars or stems, |
| or anyplace you body contacts the bike. |
| Breaking something there always hurts. -Peter Chisholm |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:50:45 -0500, "Josh" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been switching off
some older stems to settle down on a size and I think i'm set now. So the
question is, does a carbon stem really matter that much? They're not
actually saving any weight over the ultralight alloy, and the most important
issue here is stiffness. I have so much vibration dampening at this point
that is doesn't matter too much.

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

There is another thread above, on 2 bolt or 4 bolt stems. Someone
posted the following link:
http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/index.htm

It is well worth reading.
I use a Ritchey WCS and I really like it. It tested well too.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Josh said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been switching off
some older stems to settle down on a size and I think i'm set now. So the
question is, does a carbon stem really matter that much? They're not
actually saving any weight over the ultralight alloy, and the most important
issue here is stiffness. I have so much vibration dampening at this point
that is doesn't matter too much.

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a lot
more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's steerer than
the stem.
I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that broken
handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken stems.

/s

Jeff Starr said:

Quoted message said:

So I've got a all carbon fork and carbon FSA bars. I've been
switching off some older stems to settle down on a size and I think
i'm set now. So the question is, does a carbon stem really matter
that much? They're not actually saving any weight over the
ultralight alloy, and the most important issue here is stiffness.
I have so much vibration dampening at this point that is doesn't
matter too much.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So... is it worth the money or is it just cosmetics at this point?

Quoted message said:

There is another thread above, on 2 bolt or 4 bolt stems. Someone
posted the following link:

http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/index.htm

Quoted message said:

It is well worth reading. I use a Ritchey WCS and I really like
it. It tested well too.

Well I prefer a reasonably strong stem, but the question of how it is
attached to the fork and how it holds the bars is not a test question
but rather a binary decision. Does it have a fail safe attachment?

I didn't see that mentioned in the tests while it is foremost in my
assessment of stems. That is why I ride a Ritchey stem with two bolts
on the steertube and four on the bar clamp. That the stem can carry
my arm forces is reasonably assumed, judging from the amount of
material compared to my former Cinelli quill stems.

Jobst Brandt

On 23 Dec 2005 13:01:27 -0800, "Scott Gordo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a lot
more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's steerer than
the stem.
I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that broken
handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken stems.

/s

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

Jeff

Jeff Starr said:

Quoted message said:

With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
steerer than the stem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that broken
handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken stems.

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Jobst Brandt

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr said:

Quoted message said:

With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
steerer than the stem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
stems.

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Jobst Brandt

Where does one buy steel bars these days?

Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

Mike DeMicco said:

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr said:

> With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
> lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
> steerer than the stem.

Quoted message said:

> I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
> broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
> stems.

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Jobst Brandt

Where does one buy steel bars these days?

Track bars are steel.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/nitto.html

http://www.businesscycles.com/tbars-nitto.htm

http://www.businesscycles.com/trcomp.htm#bars

Quoted message said:

Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

Mike DeMicco said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
> lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
> steerer than the stem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
> broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
> stems.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken
carbon and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't
mean it doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I
have always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough
aluminum bars fail.

Quoted message said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?

You don't. They last long enough that I'll probably not need to look
for new ones soon.

Quoted message said:

Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

What was the question?

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?

You don't. They last long enough that I'll probably not need to
look for new ones soon.

Not everyone gets his bar from Cinelli, besides the obviousl issue
these days with that...

Seems the only quality steel bars left are track ones, and what
Nitto offers (very nice from what I read, Rivendell sells them).

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?

You don't. They last long enough that I'll probably not need to
look for new ones soon.

Not everyone gets his bar from Cinelli, besides the obviousl issue
these days with that...

Seems the only quality steel bars left are track ones, Nitto offers
some nice ones from what I read...

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr said:

>With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
>lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
>steerer than the stem.
>I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
>broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
>stems.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Mike DeMicco said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?
Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

I spit up my Red Bull reading that.

"Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life"

You obviously haven't spent much time in bike shops lately!

Steel handlebars are also found in bike shops like ours.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr said:

>With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
>lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
>steerer than the stem.
>I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
>broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
>stems.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???

I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Mike DeMicco said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?
Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

I spit up my Red Bull reading that.

"Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life"

You obviously haven't spent much time in bike shops lately!

Steel handlebars are also found in bike shops like ours.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Starr writes:
>>With all due respect to those who have already replied, I'd be a
>>lot more concerned about the carbon handlebars and the fork's
>>steerer than the stem.
>>I think you'll be paying a high style premium, but I'd bet that
>>broken handlebars and forks are far more commonplace than broken
>>stems.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote

Quoted message said:

>And you base this on what? Actual experience? Or???
I don't know how often this occurs but I have seen both broken carbon
and aluminum bars but never a broken stem. That doesn't mean it
doesn't occur but just from that, I see that it happens. I have
always ridden steel bars for that reason, having seen enough aluminum
bars fail.

Mike DeMicco said:

Where does one buy steel bars these days?
Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

I spit up my Red Bull reading that.

"Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life"

You obviously haven't spent much time in bike shops lately!

So what's causing these parts to break? Underdesigned? crash damage? I
read a fatigue test report of various mountain bike handlebars some time
ago, and the carbon fiber bars outlasted all the other bars made of
different materials by a wide margin.

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I spit up my Red Bull reading that.
"Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life"
You obviously haven't spent much time in bike shops lately!
Steel handlebars are also found in bike shops like ours.

He meant to say 'well designed carbon fiber bars have a very long fatigue
life.'. Stupid light, is well, stupid.
---------------
Alex

Mike DeMicco said:

Carbon fiber inherently has a very long fatigue life. Why is there
discussion about failures of carbon bars?

A better question might be... Why don't we have carbon bars that are
similar in weight to their aluminum counterparts? I think you'd be able
to make a very durable bar at that weight, and you might even gain some
stiffness.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu