Cutting spoke threads

Ed said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels. I rarely
use the same length spoke for two wheels and I end up with a random
assortment of spokes that will never be used.

So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool. Retail
appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...

My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works? Does it roll
the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?

As well, does the tool also cut the spoke? If not, what's the best
method for cutting?

I used one of these long ago (1985) to shorten some (then unreplaceable)
13-14G single-butted spokes.

1) The Hozan *cuts* the threads, it doesn't roll them. The only thread
roller I know of is the Phil (which cuts to length also) but it costs
10x what the Hozan does, IIRC.

2) The threads cut by the Hozan weren't terribly smooth - the top of the
thread ridges were jagged. Could have been due to the metallurgy of the
spokes I was using (they were made around 1950, I think), but it may be
that that's the best you can get with a cutter. It made the wheel build
unpleasant as handling the spokes was painful at times - I always grease
the threads with my fingertips.

Overall, it was an experience I wouldn't repeat if avoidable - it was a
royal PITA, and the results weren't that good. As usual, YMMV.

Mark

Ed said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels. I rarely
use the same length spoke for two wheels and I end up with a random
assortment of spokes that will never be used.

So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool. Retail
appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...

My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works? Does it roll
the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?

it rolls the threads, but even if you replace the crank with a
reversible drill it is still very slow

Quoted message said:

As well, does the tool also cut the spoke? If not, what's the best
method for cutting?

cut, grind, pray the rollers catch....

unless you have a Phil Wood, buying the correct lenght spoke is very
attractive
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Thanks for the info. There seem to be conflicting responses here about
the rolling or cutting of the threads.

There's a picture here, if that would help clarify...
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=311678745453&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Wheel%20and%20Rim&tc=Spoke%20Threading%20Machines&item_id=HZ-C700

Ed Browne said:

Thanks for the info. There seem to be conflicting responses here
about the rolling or cutting of the threads.

Quoted message said:

There's a picture here, if that would help clarify...

http://tinyurl.com/ak4rw

The picture shows a three roller thread die and describes it as thread
rolling die. From what I see in the picture and its description, this
is a tool for single operations, rather than something on which to do
hundreds of spokes. I think it is a good device for fill-in work when
the right length spoke is not available for a repair or so.

Jobst Brandt

In article <[email hidden]>, Ed

Quoted message said:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=311678745453&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Whee
l%20and%20Rim&tc=Spoke%20Threading%20Machines&item_id=HZ-C700

It says it uses rolling dies and it looks like it uses rolling dies
instead of thread cutters, so I would say it rolls and not cut.
However, depending on the type of StainlessSteel you are dealing with,
rolling SS threads will be a sloooow and difficult job and not easily
done well, and I don't think spokes will be made from any soft SS.

Zonta said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ed

Quoted message said:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=311678745453&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Whee
l%20and%20Rim&tc=Spoke%20Threading%20Machines&item_id=HZ-C700

It says it uses rolling dies and it looks like it uses rolling dies
instead of thread cutters, so I would say it rolls and not cut.
However, depending on the type of StainlessSteel you are dealing with,
rolling SS threads will be a sloooow and difficult job and not easily
done well, and I don't think spokes will be made from any soft SS.

OK, I appear to have screwed up in the earlier post where I said the
Hozan is a cutter. I suppose it was all the metal debris that fell away
from the spoke when I used it that confused me - though as I said, they
were antique spokes with uncertain metallurgy and/or plating (though
definitely not chrome plated).

It certainly was a slow and difficult tool to use, though - and the
results, as I posted earlier, were not the greatest. This may be blamed
on the spoke material, though. At any rate, it's not the convenient
tool the OP seemed to be seeking.

Apparently, the Phil Wood tool *is* convenient, but with a corresponding
price tag (even more than I thought - $3150 at philwood.com)

Mark

Quoted message said:

Ed Browne said:

Thanks for the info. There seem to be conflicting responses here
about the rolling or cutting of the threads.

Quoted message said:

There's a picture here, if that would help clarify...

http://tinyurl.com/ak4rw

The picture shows a three roller thread die and describes it as thread
rolling die. From what I see in the picture and its description, this
is a tool for single operations, rather than something on which to do
hundreds of spokes. I think it is a good device for fill-in work when
the right length spoke is not available for a repair or so.

For $99, it hardly seems like an economical solution by comparison to
patronizing a well-stocked bike shop nearby, if one is present. OTOH,
for those whose needs include the ability to immediately fabricate a
spoke at need infrequently, and for those who lack the aforementioned
source, I can see where it might be worth the price.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

For $99, it hardly seems like an economical solution by comparison to
patronizing a well-stocked bike shop nearby, if one is present. OTOH,
for those whose needs include the ability to immediately fabricate a
spoke at need infrequently, and for those who lack the aforementioned
source, I can see where it might be worth the price.

If the Internet is easily available and the OP can wait a week or so,
Icycles.com cuts DT spokes to any length needed. I got a set of 15
gauge spokes cut for the 20" wheel on my recumbent with no problem.

Jeff

"Mark Janeba" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

The only thread roller I know of is the Phil (which cuts to length also)
but it costs 10x what the Hozan does, IIRC.

Actually, Asahi makes a very nice spoke cutting & threading machine. It is
pricey, but less than a Phil machine, and is much less complex in function.
.. . It requires two separate operations to cut, then roll thread onto the
spoke, but is very easy to use and results in spokes of precise length with
excellent quality and consistency of thread. . . not a real option for a
home mechanic, but an invaluable device for pro builder or shop . . . I
could only find a .pdf lay-out of Asahi spoke products. . .check out the "C
& T Machine M-101" here. . .

http://www.jbpi.or.jp/english/JBG/PARTS&ACCESSORIES/ASAHI%20SPOKE%20MFG%20CO%20LTD.pdf

"Ed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels. I rarely
use the same length spoke for two wheels and I end up with a random
assortment of spokes that will never be used.

So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool. Retail
appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...

My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works? Does it roll
the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?

As well, does the tool also cut the spoke? If not, what's the best
method for cutting?

A coworker and I tried to thread a spoke for fun/learning with the Hozan
about 2 weeks ago. We had no fun and learned that it is utter [censored]. The
rollers didn't catch right, the 2.0 spoke stayed unthreaded except for the
first millimeter or so, and it took another 5 minutes of yanking and cursing
to get the spoke back out of the machine. Wait, no, it's not a machine,
it's a time and money waster. Needless to say we won't be using it again...
we send out our odd-size spoke jobbies to the other LBS with a 30-year-old
PW spoke cutter.

Plus it doesn't cut the spoke to length.

Ask your LBS for the exact number of spokes so that you're not getting a box
of 72 when you only need 64, etc. Any reasonable LBS should break boxes up
for you.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ed said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels. I rarely
use the same length spoke for two wheels and I end up with a random
assortment of spokes that will never be used.

So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool. Retail
appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...

My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works? Does it roll
the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?

As well, does the tool also cut the spoke? If not, what's the best
method for cutting?

Like the once-ubiquitous Cyclo unit the Hozan has a simple
rolling head. Cut to length, then thread.

It is an extremely tedious job.

Why are you buying such an odd number of spokes? There is no
wheel I know that uses 50 spokes. We buy 500 or 1000 per
size, sell "no less than one", usually in "sets" = a wheel
plus one spoke+coupla nipples, $24/set $1 each

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Ed said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels. I rarely
use the same length spoke for two wheels and I end up with a random
assortment of spokes that will never be used.
So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool. Retail
appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...
My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works? Does it roll
the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?
As well, does the tool also cut the spoke? If not, what's the best
method for cutting?

Mark Janeba said:

I used one of these long ago (1985) to shorten some (then unreplaceable)
13-14G single-butted spokes.
1) The Hozan *cuts* the threads, it doesn't roll them. The only thread
roller I know of is the Phil (which cuts to length also) but it costs
10x what the Hozan does, IIRC.
2) The threads cut by the Hozan weren't terribly smooth - the top of the
thread ridges were jagged. Could have been due to the metallurgy of the
spokes I was using (they were made around 1950, I think), but it may be
that that's the best you can get with a cutter. It made the wheel build
unpleasant as handling the spokes was painful at times - I always grease
the threads with my fingertips.
Overall, it was an experience I wouldn't repeat if avoidable - it was a
royal PITA, and the results weren't that good. As usual, YMMV.

Unless there are two models, Hozan used to sell a unit very
much like this one with a three-segment rolling head:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/SPOKROLL.JPG

If they make a cutting model you'd have all the suffering
_and_ lousy output.

Yes, quite tedious.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ed said:

Thanks for the info. There seem to be conflicting responses here about
the rolling or cutting of the threads.

There's a picture here, if that would help clarify...
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=311678745453&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Wheel%20and%20Rim&tc=Spoke%20Threading%20Machines&item_id=HZ-C700

Yes that's a rolling head- just like this one
from the sixties:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/SPOKROLL.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Squid-in-Training said:

Ask your LBS for the exact number of spokes so that you're not getting a box
of 72 when you only need 64, etc. Any reasonable LBS should break boxes up
for you.

My mailorder place seems to sell all their spokes in sets of 20 -- leads
to minimal wastage (except of course for 48s). With 36s and 32s you've got
2 or 4 spokes each side as spare.

Jasper

Did you know Hozan spoke threader heads come in different sizes for
different thicknesses of spokes? Sounds like you were using the wrong
size. Like a 1.8 mm for those 2.0 spokes.

I have a Hozan spoke threader with 2 interchangeable heads. I've used
this one and others quite often. They don't beat buying spokes in the
correct length. The threads just aren't as good. Stainless steel
spokes are definitely harder to thread. With high tension, the threads
can let go. These are best for oddball sizes or recycling used spokes
for beaters or when you just can't wait to make a trip to the lbs or
ups to deliver.

$130? $99? I seem to remember paying about $15 for mine.

Rick

Quoted message said:

Did you know Hozan spoke threader heads come in different sizes for
different thicknesses of spokes? Sounds like you were using the wrong
size. Like a 1.8 mm for those 2.0 spokes.

I have a Hozan spoke threader with 2 interchangeable heads. I've used
this one and others quite often. They don't beat buying spokes in the
correct length. The threads just aren't as good. Stainless steel
spokes are definitely harder to thread. With high tension, the
threads can let go. These are best for oddball sizes or recycling
used spokes for beaters or when you just can't wait to make a trip to
the lbs or ups to deliver.

$130? $99? I seem to remember paying about $15 for mine.

Rick

We figured nobody would specifically buy a 1.8 and then use the threader on
it. In other words, if someone was going to spend the money on 1.8 that
they would have the personal pride to buy it in the right size. We also
figured that if a customer was going to have us thread a spoke that it would
be 2.0, since we don't carry 1.8s in stock.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ed said:

So I'm tired of buying bags of 50 spokes to build my wheels.

Why? Is it so bad to have some replacement spokes??

Quoted message said:

So today I found out about the Hozan spoke thread cutting tool.
Retail appears to be about $130. Shop price is obviously lower...

One should hope so : I paid maybe $25 for mine [long ago].

Quoted message said:

My question is this: does anyone know how this tool works?

Insert spoke, tighten clamp, turn crank.

Quoted message said:

Does it roll the threads or does it cut them into the spoke?

It has rollers to roll the threads.

Quoted message said:

As well, does the tool also cut the spoke?

Nope. You need a separate spoke-cutter for that.

Quoted message said:

If not, what's the best method for cutting?

I don't know what's "best", I just use a spoke cutter.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Quoted message said:

Squid-in-Training said:

Ask your LBS for the exact number of spokes so that you're not getting a box
of 72 when you only need 64, etc. Any reasonable LBS should break boxes up
for you.

Jasper Janssen said:

My mailorder place seems to sell all their spokes in sets of 20 -- leads
to minimal wastage (except of course for 48s). With 36s and 32s you've got
2 or 4 spokes each side as spare.

How does that compare to $24 per wheel for the exact count
plus one?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Jasper Janssen wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My mailorder place seems to sell all their spokes in sets of 20 --
leads to minimal wastage (except of course for 48s). With 36s
and 32s you've got 2 or 4 spokes each side as spare.

Quoted message said:

How does that compare to $24 per wheel for the exact count
plus one?

I seem to remember that Jasper's mail order dealer is Rose Versand:

http://www.roseversand.de/rose_main.cfm?cid=170&mid=0&SPR_ID=1&KTG_ID=1093&PRD_ID=0

http://tinyurl.com/aesho

DT Competitions in silver are 4.40 euros for 20. Brass 12mm nipples are an
extra 1.60 for 40. Single spokes are available at slightly higher cost
(0.24 euros each).

Delivery is 3.95 within Germany, 12.00 within Europe, regardless of order
size.

EURUSD is currently about 1.1850

James Thomson