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Gobsmacked

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UK and Europe
Published
21 December 2005
Last activity
4 January 2006
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wafflycat
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  1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    The last paragraph.

    "Cyclists rightly want more measures and facilities in their favour, but as
    these rights are granted, it is time to accept some responsibility.
    Pedestrians and other road users deserve considerate, safe cyclists. Because
    civil servants so long made cyclists second-class citizens by planning roads
    that in effect designed us out of the system, we have acquired a tremendous
    sense of self-righteous entitlement - even to behave badly. It's really time
    we got over it. Taking a test would show we have."

    He wants to take away our right to use the road. I am gobsmacked.

    I have sent a response to Matt Seaton: -

    "I usually enjoy reading your column in the Guardian each week, after all
    it's not exactly commonplace to have media inches devoted to a cyclist. But
    I have to disagree with your proposal that when we are in cycling mode we
    should pass a test before being allowed on the roads. Lest you think I'm a
    'Lycra Lout' who jumps red lights, rides on the pavement, has no lights at
    night... I'm not. I do wear Lycra but I'm a fully paid-up member of the CTC,
    and a cycling club local to me, who regularly cycles as a means of transport
    for getting from A to B as well as cycling for fun. I've even been known to
    venture to foreign soil to ride my bike. I stop at red lights, do not cycle
    on the pavement and use lights (multitudinous ones and acres of reflectives
    and fluorescents). I have many and varied steeds, all of which I love and
    well, let's face it, one can never have too many bikes, bike bits and
    accessories.

    What I do agree with is cycling legally, safely and assertively, the
    extension of good cycle training to do this and joining an organisation such
    as the CTC if for no other purpose other than to get the free insurance and
    legal assistance which is a part of the membership package. But to make it
    mandatory to pass a test before you are allowed to use the road? The
    effective licensing of cyclists? No sir!

    Why? Well, here goes:-

    Firstly, let's look at the actual level of danger cyclists pose on the road
    to other road users and to pedestrians. In reality it is extremely small.
    The perceived danger that cyclists pose, by worshippers at the Altar of
    Clarkson and readers of the Daily Wail, is that cyclists are a huge danger:
    they are not. The reality is the main cause of death and injury on road and
    footpath is not cyclists, Lycra clad or otherwise, it is motorists. Yes, I
    include myself in this as I am a motorist as well as a cyclist and a
    pedestrian. So far I haven't killed or injured anyone and I'm trying to keep
    it that way. You are probably aware of the figures; about 3500 people killed
    each year and tens of thousands more injured by motorists. An average of 1
    or 2 persons per year are killed by cyclists. The remainder, some 3498, are
    killed by motorists. I hope that gives you a sense of perspective of the
    reality of how dangerous cyclists are NOT. When cycling or driving I often
    see red-light jumpers. The vast majority of them are fellow motorists.
    Clearly having to take a test and be licensed has not dissuaded many a
    motorist from jumping red-lights, breaking the speed limit and a whole raft
    of other laws. I suggest that the vast majority of motoring red-light
    jumpers do it because they can get away with it. Having to take a test and
    be licensed has not stopped them from breaking the law. Do you think it
    would be any different with cyclists? If cyclists really pose such a huge
    danger to other road users do you think that the insurance we can get would
    be of such low cost? Insurance is often free as a part of home insurance. It
    is included in the more than reasonable cost of joining of joining the CTC
    or British Cycling, so the level of risk posed by cyclists is low. If were
    as high as the media often suggests, we would not be getting what is
    effectively free insurance as insurance companies are not noted for their
    generosity.

    Secondly, as for facilities - well, no, I and many another card-carrying
    bikie actually do not want the pathetic excuses of cycling farcilities
    provided by too many a local authority. A white-paint outline drawing of a
    bicycle on a footpath does not a facility make. There is already an
    excellent network of cycle routes throughout the UK. These are surfaced with
    black tarmac and called roads. I find they provide an excellent choice of
    routes in getting from A to B and when exploring pastures new, I find an
    Ordnance Survey map an excellent aid in working out which are likely to be
    the best ones to use. Cycling farcilities on the other hand, and I include
    Sustrans routes in this, rarely get me from A to B in a logical fashion,
    they do not go where they are needed or wanted [1]. They are often designed
    and maintained to such a poor standard that they are more dangerous than
    using the road[2].

    I am of the opinion that the cycle farcilities often provided by local
    authorities and Sustrans actually encourage cyclists to break the law. How
    is this? Well, Sustrans promotes facilities to move cyclists off the road
    and on to 'facilities'. Local authorities will take a perfectly normal
    footpath, paint an outline of a white bicycle on it and hey-presto, a
    footpath becomes a 'shared-use facility'. What's a novice cyclist to do when
    presented with such confusion? The Highway Code tells us it's an offence to
    cycle on the pavement, yet more and more footpaths are seemingly allowed to
    be ridden upon and where does the allowed bit start and end? Signage is
    often confusing, badly sighted and sometimes, plain wrong[3]. This is why I
    use the term cycle 'farcilities' as opposed to 'facilities' as farcilities
    is what cyclists are usually provided with. No wonder many a cyclist thinks
    it's okay to cycle on the footpath. It's where cyclists are increasingly
    encouraged to go by the ever more frequently seen white paint on a footpath
    and then cyclists face the wrath of the media for cycling on footpaths...

    Thirdly, the main reason I am against what amounts to licensing of cyclists
    before allowing them to use the road, is that as cyclists, we have a *right*
    in law to use the road, just as pedestrians have. Mandatory licensing takes
    away our right. I do not want to give up that right. Do you suggest that the
    huge numbers of pedestrians who cross the road when the Pelican crossing
    light is on red should have their right taken away unless they have passed a
    test to show that they are capable of using such a crossing correctly? It's
    the same twisted logic that's being argued for as regards the requirement
    for testing of cyclists. I would fight tooth and nail to stop the *right* of
    cyclists to use the road. I do not condone dangerous, illegal or
    inconsiderate use of the road or footpaths by any user. Nor will I condone
    the repression of cyclists' rights to use the road because some cyclists
    choose to break the law through ignorance or deliberate action.

    Fourthly, you have fallen victim to the bleatings of the worst of the media,
    and I cannot overstate how dismayed I am by your column this week. By
    suggesting that cyclists should be licensed in the same way motorists are,
    you are sending out a signal that we present at least the same level of
    danger to other road users as motorists do, when the facts state otherwise.
    The main cause of death and injury on our highways is not the cyclist.
    Motorists do kill and injure in vast numbers day in, day out, year after
    year. When we are in motorist mode I believe we have a very particular duty
    of care to those around us due to the very size we present and speed we
    travel at.

    Finally, I do not seek to excuse cyclists who break the law. I cycle safely,
    assertively and legally, as does my husband and my son. I encourage other
    cyclists to do the same. If a cyclist does break the law then he or she
    should have no complaint when he or she is brought to book, unlike, I hasten
    to add, the ever growing clamour in the media by those selfish apologists
    for fellow motorists who think that motorists breaking the speed limits are
    somehow unfairly taxed innocents. I have no problem with cycle training of
    itself. Indeed it's a good thing as being taught assertive, safe and legal
    cycling actively helps people stay safe on the roads. I do not thank you for
    giving the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and the Daily Mail yet another stick
    with which to beat cyclists, overstating the risks cyclists really pose and
    adding to the prejudice cyclists face on a daily basis, and now they have a
    cyclist who agrees cyclists are uncontrolled louts!

    I honestly feel you have done cycling harm with your article in today's
    Guardian. You have added to the diverting of attention away from the real
    danger on the roads: bad motoring.

    Regards, Helen Simmons

    [1] http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/farcilities-ncn13.htm

    [2] See the excellent Warrington Cycle Campaign website at
    http://www.17beechroad.freeserve.co.uk/WarringtonCycleCampaign/facility-of-the-month/
    Also look at
    http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/cycling/farcilities.html
    http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/daft-lanes-index.htm and there's
    loads more on the Net

    [3] http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/farcilities-signs-sustrans.htm
    gives one example. "

  2. "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    The last paragraph.

    "Cyclists rightly want more measures and facilities in their favour, but
    as these rights are granted, it is time to accept some responsibility.
    Pedestrians and other road users deserve considerate, safe cyclists.
    Because civil servants so long made cyclists second-class citizens by
    planning roads that in effect designed us out of the system, we have
    acquired a tremendous sense of self-righteous entitlement - even to behave
    badly. It's really time we got over it. Taking a test would show we have."

    Quoted message said:


    Waffly bit snipped out

    But I have already taken a test - it was my Cycling Proficiency Test some
    time ago when I was approximately 10. I could probably find the
    susstificate (or was it a badge?) if I looked hard enough.

    John

  3. Your obviously heartfelt letter is far too long for them to consider
    publication. Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Very best of luck though,

    John

    "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    The last paragraph.

    "Cyclists rightly want more measures and facilities in their favour, but
    as these rights are granted, it is time to accept some responsibility.
    Pedestrians and other road users deserve considerate, safe cyclists.
    Because civil servants so long made cyclists second-class citizens by
    planning roads that in effect designed us out of the system, we have
    acquired a tremendous sense of self-righteous entitlement - even to behave
    badly. It's really time we got over it. Taking a test would show we have."

    He wants to take away our right to use the road. I am gobsmacked.

    I have sent a response to Matt Seaton: -

    "I usually enjoy reading your column in the Guardian each week, after all
    it's not exactly commonplace to have media inches devoted to a cyclist.
    But I have to disagree with your proposal that when we are in cycling mode
    we should pass a test before being allowed on the roads. Lest you think
    I'm a 'Lycra Lout' who jumps red lights, rides on the pavement, has no
    lights at night... I'm not. I do wear Lycra but I'm a fully paid-up member
    of the CTC, and a cycling club local to me, who regularly cycles as a
    means of transport for getting from A to B as well as cycling for fun.
    I've even been known to venture to foreign soil to ride my bike. I stop at
    red lights, do not cycle on the pavement and use lights (multitudinous
    ones and acres of reflectives and fluorescents). I have many and varied
    steeds, all of which I love and well, let's face it, one can never have
    too many bikes, bike bits and accessories.

    What I do agree with is cycling legally, safely and assertively, the
    extension of good cycle training to do this and joining an organisation
    such as the CTC if for no other purpose other than to get the free
    insurance and legal assistance which is a part of the membership package.
    But to make it mandatory to pass a test before you are allowed to use the
    road? The effective licensing of cyclists? No sir!

    Why? Well, here goes:-

    Firstly, let's look at the actual level of danger cyclists pose on the
    road to other road users and to pedestrians. In reality it is extremely
    small. The perceived danger that cyclists pose, by worshippers at the
    Altar of Clarkson and readers of the Daily Wail, is that cyclists are a
    huge danger: they are not. The reality is the main cause of death and
    injury on road and footpath is not cyclists, Lycra clad or otherwise, it
    is motorists. Yes, I include myself in this as I am a motorist as well as
    a cyclist and a pedestrian. So far I haven't killed or injured anyone and
    I'm trying to keep it that way. You are probably aware of the figures;
    about 3500 people killed each year and tens of thousands more injured by
    motorists. An average of 1 or 2 persons per year are killed by cyclists.
    The remainder, some 3498, are killed by motorists. I hope that gives you a
    sense of perspective of the reality of how dangerous cyclists are NOT.
    When cycling or driving I often see red-light jumpers. The vast majority
    of them are fellow motorists. Clearly having to take a test and be
    licensed has not dissuaded many a motorist from jumping red-lights,
    breaking the speed limit and a whole raft of other laws. I suggest that
    the vast majority of motoring red-light jumpers do it because they can get
    away with it. Having to take a test and be licensed has not stopped them
    from breaking the law. Do you think it would be any different with
    cyclists? If cyclists really pose such a huge danger to other road users
    do you think that the insurance we can get would be of such low cost?
    Insurance is often free as a part of home insurance. It is included in the
    more than reasonable cost of joining of joining the CTC or British
    Cycling, so the level of risk posed by cyclists is low. If were as high as
    the media often suggests, we would not be getting what is effectively free
    insurance as insurance companies are not noted for their generosity.

    Secondly, as for facilities - well, no, I and many another card-carrying
    bikie actually do not want the pathetic excuses of cycling farcilities
    provided by too many a local authority. A white-paint outline drawing of a
    bicycle on a footpath does not a facility make. There is already an
    excellent network of cycle routes throughout the UK. These are surfaced
    with black tarmac and called roads. I find they provide an excellent
    choice of routes in getting from A to B and when exploring pastures new, I
    find an Ordnance Survey map an excellent aid in working out which are
    likely to be the best ones to use. Cycling farcilities on the other hand,
    and I include Sustrans routes in this, rarely get me from A to B in a
    logical fashion, they do not go where they are needed or wanted [1]. They
    are often designed and maintained to such a poor standard that they are
    more dangerous than using the road[2].

    I am of the opinion that the cycle farcilities often provided by local
    authorities and Sustrans actually encourage cyclists to break the law. How
    is this? Well, Sustrans promotes facilities to move cyclists off the road
    and on to 'facilities'. Local authorities will take a perfectly normal
    footpath, paint an outline of a white bicycle on it and hey-presto, a
    footpath becomes a 'shared-use facility'. What's a novice cyclist to do
    when presented with such confusion? The Highway Code tells us it's an
    offence to cycle on the pavement, yet more and more footpaths are
    seemingly allowed to be ridden upon and where does the allowed bit start
    and end? Signage is often confusing, badly sighted and sometimes, plain
    wrong[3]. This is why I use the term cycle 'farcilities' as opposed to
    'facilities' as farcilities is what cyclists are usually provided with. No
    wonder many a cyclist thinks it's okay to cycle on the footpath. It's
    where cyclists are increasingly encouraged to go by the ever more
    frequently seen white paint on a footpath and then cyclists face the wrath
    of the media for cycling on footpaths...

    Thirdly, the main reason I am against what amounts to licensing of
    cyclists before allowing them to use the road, is that as cyclists, we
    have a *right* in law to use the road, just as pedestrians have. Mandatory
    licensing takes away our right. I do not want to give up that right. Do
    you suggest that the huge numbers of pedestrians who cross the road when
    the Pelican crossing light is on red should have their right taken away
    unless they have passed a test to show that they are capable of using such
    a crossing correctly? It's the same twisted logic that's being argued for
    as regards the requirement for testing of cyclists. I would fight tooth
    and nail to stop the *right* of cyclists to use the road. I do not condone
    dangerous, illegal or inconsiderate use of the road or footpaths by any
    user. Nor will I condone the repression of cyclists' rights to use the
    road because some cyclists choose to break the law through ignorance or
    deliberate action.

    Fourthly, you have fallen victim to the bleatings of the worst of the
    media, and I cannot overstate how dismayed I am by your column this week.
    By suggesting that cyclists should be licensed in the same way motorists
    are, you are sending out a signal that we present at least the same level
    of danger to other road users as motorists do, when the facts state
    otherwise. The main cause of death and injury on our highways is not the
    cyclist. Motorists do kill and injure in vast numbers day in, day out,
    year after year. When we are in motorist mode I believe we have a very
    particular duty of care to those around us due to the very size we present
    and speed we travel at.

    Finally, I do not seek to excuse cyclists who break the law. I cycle
    safely, assertively and legally, as does my husband and my son. I
    encourage other cyclists to do the same. If a cyclist does break the law
    then he or she should have no complaint when he or she is brought to book,
    unlike, I hasten to add, the ever growing clamour in the media by those
    selfish apologists for fellow motorists who think that motorists breaking
    the speed limits are somehow unfairly taxed innocents. I have no problem
    with cycle training of itself. Indeed it's a good thing as being taught
    assertive, safe and legal cycling actively helps people stay safe on the
    roads. I do not thank you for giving the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and the
    Daily Mail yet another stick with which to beat cyclists, overstating the
    risks cyclists really pose and adding to the prejudice cyclists face on a
    daily basis, and now they have a cyclist who agrees cyclists are
    uncontrolled louts!

    I honestly feel you have done cycling harm with your article in today's
    Guardian. You have added to the diverting of attention away from the real
    danger on the roads: bad motoring.

    Regards, Helen Simmons

    [1] http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/farcilities-ncn13.htm

    [2] See the excellent Warrington Cycle Campaign website at
    http://www.17beechroad.freeserve.co.uk/WarringtonCycleCampaign/facility-of-the-month/
    Also look at
    http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/cycling/farcilities.html
    http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/daft-lanes-index.htm and there's
    loads more on the Net

    [3] http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/farcilities-signs-sustrans.htm
    gives one example. "

  4. wafflycat came up with the following;:

    Quoted message said:

    He wants to take away our right to use the road. I am gobsmacked.

    I have sent a response to Matt Seaton: -

    <snipped a bit>

    What an excellent reply, nice one. 😉

    --
    Paul ...
    (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
    ebay 8023391484

  5. wafflycat said:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    He wants to take away our right to use the road. I am gobsmacked.

    Put him in your "killfile", he /must/ be a troll.

    --
    Matt B

  6. "Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Your obviously heartfelt letter is far too long for them to consider
    publication. Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Very best of luck though,

    John

    It wasn't for publication. It wasn't to the letters' page, it was direct to
    the author of the article.

    Cheers, helen s

  7. Matt B said:
    wafflycat said:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    He wants to take away our right to use the road. I am gobsmacked.

    Put him in your "killfile", he /must/ be a troll.

    All newspaper columnists are trolls. It is part of the job to incite
    and provoke.

    ...d

  8. John Wilton said:
    Quoted message said:

    But I have already taken a test - it was my Cycling Proficiency Test some
    time ago when I was approximately 10. I could probably find the
    susstificate (or was it a badge?) if I looked hard enough.

    John

    I have both my certificate and my badge. As a 10,000 mile a year
    cyclist, I choose not to use some facilities yet do use others if they
    suit me. Just like roads. Not fair to say I don't want cycling
    facilities. It's not worth getting het up about a test for cyclists, it
    would take far too much organisation to set up and police, it'll never
    happen. Even if it did, like the cat says it wouldn't make every rider
    a courteous one and it wouldn't make every driver a courteous one
    either, nothing would change, the authorities know this too.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    David Martin () said:

    All newspaper columnists are trolls. It is part of the job to incite
    and provoke.

    One would hope, though, that as the author of "The Escape Artist" - one
    of the better cycling books of recent years, Mr. Seaton would Know
    Better.

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Me, I wanna be an anglepoise lamp, yeah!

  10. Charlie said:

    Your obviously heartfelt letter is far too long for them to consider
    publication. Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Very best of luck though,

    John

    As Blaise Pascal said roughly translated "I have made this letter longer
    than usual, because I lack the time to make it short"

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham

  11. MSeries said:

    organisation to set up and police, it'll never happen. Even if it did,
    like the cat says it wouldn't make every rider a courteous one and it
    wouldn't make every driver a courteous one either, nothing would change,
    the authorities know this too.


    I accept your point, which is well made.

    But we're missing something here. I had to take a test to be allowed to
    drive a car on the roads because its dangerous.
    Stretching a point, we don't license pedestrians to walk along the
    pavement because it is quite safe. We DO license people operating cranes
    which move (say) building supplies over their heads.

    I don't know about the exact history of automobiles, but I would guess
    there were a good few years with no driving tests before 'the authorities'
    recognized that people were being killed and injured so brought in the
    driving test.

  12. "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    One would hope, though, that as the author of "The Escape Artist" - one
    of the better cycling books of recent years, Mr. Seaton would Know
    Better.

    That was my thought. What shocked me more than anything was knowing of Matt
    Seaton's long cycling history, how he could possibly write such an article.

    Cheers, helen s

  13. "John Hearns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I accept your point, which is well made.

    But we're missing something here. I had to take a test to be allowed to
    drive a car on the roads because its dangerous.
    Stretching a point, we don't license pedestrians to walk along the
    pavement because it is quite safe. We DO license people operating cranes
    which move (say) building supplies over their heads.

    I don't know about the exact history of automobiles, but I would guess
    there were a good few years with no driving tests before 'the authorities'
    recognized that people were being killed and injured so brought in the
    driving test.

    As I put early on in my long-winded response to Mr Seaton,

    "Firstly, let's look at the actual level of danger cyclists pose on the road
    to other road users and to pedestrians. In reality it is extremely small.
    The perceived danger that cyclists pose, by worshippers at the Altar of
    Clarkson and readers of the Daily Wail, is that cyclists are a huge danger:
    they are not. The reality is the main cause of death and injury on road and
    footpath is not cyclists, Lycra clad or otherwise, it is motorists. Yes, I
    include myself in this as I am a motorist as well as a cyclist and a
    pedestrian. So far I haven't killed or injured anyone and I'm trying to keep
    it that way. You are probably aware of the figures; about 3500 people killed
    each year and tens of thousands more injured by motorists. An average of 1
    or 2 persons per year are killed by cyclists. The remainder, some 3498, are
    killed by motorists. I hope that gives you a sense of perspective of the
    reality of how dangerous cyclists are NOT. "

    Cheers, helen s

  14. Sorry! Thanks for clarifying that. I would still uphold the ideal of
    conciseness, being myself inclined to long-windedness!

    Cheers,

    John

    "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Your obviously heartfelt letter is far too long for them to consider
    publication. Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Very best of luck though,

    John

    It wasn't for publication. It wasn't to the letters' page, it was direct
    to the author of the article.

    Cheers, helen s

  15. In article <[email hidden]>, John Hearns

    () said:

    I don't know about the exact history of automobiles, but I would guess
    there were a good few years with no driving tests before 'the authorities'
    recognized that people were being killed and injured so brought in the
    driving test.

    Compulsory testing for all new drivers was introduced in the UK in 1935.

    <URL:http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=343>

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Nicht in die laufende Trommel greifen.

  16. Thanks for bringing my attention to the article. I've emailed the author
    and quickly got a reply saying he has sympathy for what I wrote and has
    forwarded it to the letters editor, along with others received this morning.

    "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Your obviously heartfelt letter is far too long for them to consider
    publication. Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Very best of luck though,

    John

    It wasn't for publication. It wasn't to the letters' page, it was direct
    to the author of the article.

    Cheers, helen s

  17. "Charlie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry! Thanks for clarifying that. I would still uphold the ideal of
    conciseness, being myself inclined to long-windedness!

    Cheers,

    John

    No problemo. I can be a bit longwinded 🙂

    If I'm writing to a letters' page I will try to make it short and more to
    the point. But if I'm responding to an individual author, then I allow
    myself more liberties.

    Cheers, helen s

  18. "POHB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for bringing my attention to the article. I've emailed the author
    and quickly got a reply saying he has sympathy for what I wrote and has
    forwarded it to the letters editor, along with others received this
    morning.

    Most welcome! I hope something gets published in rebuttal. I hope the
    letters' editor doesn't choose a mad rant though 🙂

    Cheers, helen s

  19. wafflycat said:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671578,00.html

    The last paragraph.

    Curious. That's NOT the article they put
    in the paper (printed) Guardian.

    BugBear

  20. wafflycat said:

    "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    One would hope, though, that as the author of "The Escape Artist" - one
    of the better cycling books of recent years, Mr. Seaton would Know
    Better.

    That was my thought. What shocked me more than anything was knowing of Matt
    Seaton's long cycling history, how he could possibly write such an article.

    Quite easily, it seems - he also wrote a piece a few months back
    extolling the virtues
    of helmets and condemning as sanctimonious fools (OK, I paraphrase
    slightly)
    anyone who chose to blind themselves to the self-evident benefits of a
    plastic hat.

    Yes, here we are.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1519403,00.html

    He fell off. His daughter fell off. They were both wearing lids. They
    both survived.
    Therefore everyone else must be compelled to wear 'em, and he's going
    to ignore statistics because (despite quoting some that look a bit like
    BHit's) they are too
    difficult for him.

    Hmm. I should have had that rantette to the Guardian at the time,
    shouldn't I?

    John

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