Toe overlap

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Paul
Whilst reading a magazine review of a mountain bike a came across the term 'toe overlap' (in the
context of flawed geometry and too short a wheelbase)...

If you turn the front wheel so the rear of it starts poking out, and you have your foot on the pedal on that side half-way (so it's at the furthest point forward) - if you can get toe and wheel to touch, that's toe overlap.

Basically, you don't want to have the wheel and toe meet whilst cornering/pedalling etc, as nasty things can happen!

Having said that, some bikes have a little overlap, some have quite a lot, some have none. Some depend on whether mudflaps are fitted or not. It's considered very dangerous by some, others seem not to care too much.

Good to be aware if you have it, that at some point you might have a tangling of toes and front wheel at some point, though!

=^..^= Velvet

Quoted message said:

Whilst reading a magazine review of a mountain bike a came across the term 'toe overlap' (in the
context of flawed geometry and too short a

wheelbase).

Quoted message said:

I'd not heard the term before and wondered whether anyone could enlighten

me

Quoted message said:

as to what it means?

It means that it's possible for the toes of your shoes to hit the front wheel (when turning it).

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whilst reading a magazine review of a mountain bike a came across the term 'toe overlap' (in the
context of flawed geometry and too short a

wheelbase).

Quoted message said:

I'd not heard the term before and wondered whether anyone could enlighten

me

Quoted message said:

as to what it means?

Just curious really.

Thanks, Paul.

Thanks, now I know.

It sounds like something you probably don't want to have.

Thanks for the info.

Kind Regards Paul

Velvet said:

Good to be aware if you have it, that at some point you might have a tangling of toes and front
wheel at some point, though!

Simple awareness doesn't help all that much. I still tip over sometimes (rarely) on my road bike
because my toe hits and stops the front wheel while maneuvering at slow speed.

This was never a problem with my old Gitane. When did (road) bikes start coming out with this
tight geometry?

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Velvet said:

Paul said:

Whilst reading a magazine review of a mountain bike a came across the term 'toe overlap' (in
the context of flawed geometry and too short a wheelbase)...

If you turn the front wheel so the rear of it starts poking out, and you have your foot on the
pedal on that side half-way (so it's at the furthest point forward) - if you can get toe and wheel
to touch, that's toe overlap.

Basically, you don't want to have the wheel and toe meet whilst cornering/pedalling etc, as nasty
things can happen!

Nonsense. The only time you would turn a wheel that much, you are going at a walking pace. If your
toe contacts the wheel, the foot naturally rotates up a bit and the problem is solved. I have always
had this problem, and it has never been a problem.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt

David L. Johnson said:

Nonsense. The only time you would turn a wheel that much, you are going at a walking pace. If your
toe contacts the wheel, the foot naturally rotates up a bit and the problem is solved. I have
always had this problem, and it has never been a problem.

I've tipped over at least twice, and maybe thrice, because of this. My feet don't naturally do
anything besides stop the front wheel from rotating.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

David L. Johnson said:

Velvet said:

Paul said:

Whilst reading a magazine review of a mountain bike a came across the term 'toe overlap' (in
the context of flawed geometry and too short a wheelbase)...

Quoted message said:

Nonsense. The only time you would turn a wheel that much, you are going at a walking pace. If your
toe contacts the wheel, the foot naturally rotates up a bit and the problem is solved. I have
always had this problem, and it has never been a problem.

It's not nonsense on a mountain bike, where it's not unusual to go at walking pace, or slower.

"I have always had this problem, and it has never been a problem."? Nice sentence from someone who
tells others that they are writing nonsense.

Jay Hill said:

It's not nonsense on a mountain bike, where it's not unusual to go at walking pace, or slower.

But it is also uncommon on a mountain bike, with smaller wheels and slacker angles. I've never heard
of anyone having such a problem on a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

"I have always had this problem, and it has never been a problem."? Nice sentence from someone who
tells others that they are writing nonsense.

Irony impaired?

The "danger" suggested by others on this thread is way overblown. To suggest that brushing your toe
against the front wheel will suddenly cause the bike to stop is silly. You can't be going any
faster than 3mph and turn the wheel enough to contact your foot -- unless you are in the process of
falling anyway.

Both my road bikes and my track bike have toe overlap. I ride the track bike on the road quite a
bit, and manage to do things like negotiate U-turns and sharp cornering without danger -- and on the
track bike I can't simply backpedal to avoid the deadly toe rub.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. _`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Nonsense. The only time you would turn a wheel that much, you are going at a walking pace. If your
toe contacts the wheel, the foot naturally rotates up a bit and the problem is solved.

Unless you have mudguards, in which case your foot or toeclips can engage with the mudguard stays.

Quoted message said:

I have always had this problem, and it has never been a problem.

I find that I have developed an instinct to ratchet pedal with the inside foot only in very low
speed turns - obviously this is not a problem because the bike is moving very slowly and little if
any power is needed.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

"Toe overlap" is what I had when young, hovering in the middle of the road in traffic with too tight
toe clips/straps and caught my right foot on the left side of the front wheel! Unable to extract
foot, I executed an embarrassing sideways fall in front of a London double-decker bus. Fortunately
the bus stopped. SPDs - invented later - are wonderful.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Velvet said:

Good to be aware if you have it, that at some point you might have a tangling of toes and front
wheel at some point, though!

Simple awareness doesn't help all that much. I still tip over sometimes (rarely) on my road bike
because my toe hits and stops the front wheel while maneuvering at slow speed.

This was never a problem with my old Gitane. When did (road) bikes start coming out with this
tight geometry?

In 1971 when I bought my shiny new Crescent Pepita Special. (And before that, too, I'm sure.) It is
notorious for toe overlap. Today, I use it as a rain bike, with full fenders. I sometimes touch the
front wheel with my toe, but I can't recall ever losing control as a result of the overlap. Even
though I have a Ti framed road bike, I still love to ride the Crescent.

Toe overlap is no problem for an experienced rider who knows his/her toe might touch the front wheel
occasionally.

Rick

Java Man (Espressopithecus) said:

Toe overlap is no problem for an experienced rider who knows his/her toe might touch the front
wheel occasionally.

Rick

Never say never. I've got 10Ks of miles in me. In the early morning on the way to a big race
or a great ride, when your normal instinct or attentiveness is dulled for whatever reason, it
can bite you.

Wanna bet me you'll NEVER tip over because your toe stopped your front wheel?

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

In article said:

Thanks, now I know.

It sounds like something you probably don't want to have.

Thanks for the info.

Kind Regards Paul

As far as I can remember, all my (touring) bikes over 30 years or more have had this problem/feature
and it has never caused a fall.

AC

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In article said:

Jay Hill said:

It's not nonsense on a mountain bike, where it's not unusual to go at walking pace, or slower.

But it is also uncommon on a mountain bike, with smaller wheels and slacker angles. I've never
heard of anyone having such a problem on a mountain bike.

I have large feet, the mountain bike has fenders (bad weather commuting beater), and occasionally
toe meets fender. However, I have not found it to be a problem.

-- Dan

--
Dan Cosley ([email hidden] * cs.umn.edu~cosleyOpen ↗) GroupLens Research
Lab, Univ of MN (movielens.umn.edumovielens.umn.eduOpen ↗ * 612.624.8372) *** Just a foot soldier in the Army
of Truth ***