Persnickity Persimmon Puzzle

Spitzmaus said:

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

I've never made jam, but I've eaten a lot of persimmons. It sounds like
your persimmons are not ripe enough. Do you eat the fruit you are making
the jam from?

Ripe persimmons are *never* "puckery". Never. That cotton-y,
semi-astringent mouth feel is a sign of "still green" fruit. The fruit
should be really soft when ripe, almost to the point of mushy - especially
at the center. It should look somewhat like an over-ripe apricot. It
should be super sweet with no hint of bitterness or "puckery - ness".

I don't know where you are, but my grandfather always told me not to pick
a persimmon (or eat one) until after the first frost. What that has to do
with anything, I don't know. I do know what a "green" one tastes like and
I can't imagine anything being as bad. boo hiss. The ripe ones are "to die
for".

Elaine, too

Quoted message said:

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz
--
"Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:35:11 -0600, Elaine Parrish <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ripe persimmons are *never* "puckery". Never. That cotton-y,
semi-astringent mouth feel is a sign of "still green" fruit. The fruit
should be really soft when ripe, almost to the point of mushy - especially
at the center. It should look somewhat like an over-ripe apricot. It
should be super sweet with no hint of bitterness or "puckery - ness".

That is what I was saying..but she says it isn't the reason. But I
still stand by my opinion. I think the persimmons weren't ripe enough.
And yes..they are not just to be soft..but mushy...so soft you can
scoop out the flesh with a spoon, like custard. You might think they
were overripe, but they aren't.

Christine

Spitzmaus said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon Freezer
Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in cinnamon,
ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product isn't
palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the teeth
and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz
--
"Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

Quoted message said:

After reading your response to other posters (I had already replied
myself) I came back to your original post here to re-read it.

The odd thing is, with as many persimmons as we had on the place when I
was a kid, I never remember my (paternal) grandmother ever using the
persimmons - and she used "nature's bounty" extensively. Neither my
(maternal) grandmother nor my (maternal) great grandmother used them,
either. There had to be a reason. Lord knows, they used everything else.

Have you ever made this jam successfully? Have you ever eaten a batch that
didn't have the "after taste"? It could be that the after taste is just
part of the package.

It could be the cooking or the freezing. Some fruits don't take well to
either. Do you taste of it throughout each stage? Is the problem the same
with the refrigerator and freezer batches? Do you peel them? Are you using
a non-reactive pot? Have you tried using pectin or citric acid instead of
lemons? Does your zest have any pith? Could the after-taste be from the
lemon peel? Do you boil any of the pits? Have you tried making standard
jam instead of frige/freezer?

It would seem that you would have to taste it at each stage to see when
the "too green" taste appears. Once you find the stage, then you can
examine that stage and experiment.

Good Luck

Elaine, too

Christine Dabney said:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:35:11 -0600, Elaine Parrish <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ripe persimmons are *never* "puckery". Never. That cotton-y,
semi-astringent mouth feel is a sign of "still green" fruit. The fruit
should be really soft when ripe, almost to the point of mushy - especially
at the center. It should look somewhat like an over-ripe apricot. It
should be super sweet with no hint of bitterness or "puckery - ness".

That is what I was saying..but she says it isn't the reason. But I
still stand by my opinion. I think the persimmons weren't ripe enough.
And yes..they are not just to be soft..but mushy...so soft you can
scoop out the flesh with a spoon, like custard. You might think they
were overripe, but they aren't.

Christine

Yes, I agree about the ripeness. Oh, my, but aren't they wonderful when
they are ripe!

Elaine, too

Elaine Parrish wrote:

(snip)

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Have you ever made this jam successfully? Have you ever eaten a batch that
didn't have the "after taste"? It could be that the after taste is just
part of the package.

It could be the cooking or the freezing. Some fruits don't take well to
either. Do you taste of it throughout each stage? Is the problem the same
with the refrigerator and freezer batches? Do you peel them? Are you using
a non-reactive pot? Have you tried using pectin or citric acid instead of
lemons? Does your zest have any pith? Could the after-taste be from the
lemon peel? Do you boil any of the pits? Have you tried making standard
jam instead of frige/freezer?

It would seem that you would have to taste it at each stage to see when
the "too green" taste appears. Once you find the stage, then you can
examine that stage and experiment.

Good Luck

Elaine, too

Hey, all you helpful folks, I gotta tell ya: I *am* using ripe persimmons,
Hachiyas, and believe me when I say they're RIPE, so ripe, in fact, they
appear to be almost collapsing upon themselves! These babies are nowhere
*close* to being green, and the few I've eaten taste deliciously sweet; no
pucker, no astringency, no filmy mouthfeel. I typically get them when
they're pretty hard, and have used the paper-bag-with-apple method to move
them along to the desired consistency. Again, ripeness isn't the problem.

Now, to your questions, Elaine, too:

No, I have never made the jam successfully; despite the great flavor, that
"aftertaste/feel" is always present. This year, for the first time, I did
begin to wonder if this was perhaps a characteristic of the package, as you
suggested. Don't know, of course, as I've never had any other persimmon jam
with which to compare my efforts.

"No," she sez, shuffling her feet in embarrassment, "I don't taste as I'm
making the jam". Further, I've not tried a split batch, that is, I either
do all freezer or all fridge. When I first started making this stuff, I
thought that was the problem, and switched my method the subsequent year.

Yes, I peel the fruit. Yes, I use a non-reactive pot. No, I haven't
thought to substitute pectin or citric acid for the lemon. No, the zest is
"pithless". Can't say if the peel is causing the mouthfeel problem because
I've used lemons from many different sources in other years, again with the
same results. No, I don't boil the pits, and finally, no, I've not tried
making "standard" persimmon jam. I stubbornly stick to the recipe given me.

I suppose what irks me the most is the waste of the good persimmon pulp.
When I bake with it, the goodies turn out beautifully; this jam thing,
though, really has my undies in a bunch!

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

Spitz
--
"Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

"Spitzmaus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, good people, I need some assistance from y'all. For what seems like
the umpty-umpth time in as many years, my efforts to make Persimmon

Freezer

Quoted message said:

Jam have come to naught.

The recipe couldn't be simpler: 4 cups persimmon pulp, 3 cups sugar, 2 T.
lemon juice and 1/4 tsp. lemon peel. Mix all together, then boil at low
temperature for approximately 20 minutes until thickened. Stir in

cinnamon,

Quoted message said:

ginger, nutmeg or other spice, to taste. Pour into sterilized jars and
seal; store in refrigerator or freezer.

So far, so good -- one would think. Trouble is, the finished product

isn't

Quoted message said:

palatable; the flavor's outstanding (she sez modestly), the mouthfeel is
*gawd-AWFUL*!! The jam leaves a cotton-y, semi-astrigent film on the

teeth

Quoted message said:

and tongue almost directly after the taste registers, and subsequent bites
are no different. Persimmons by nature are puckery, true, but then why
aren't baked goods similarly affected??!? Again, this isn't my first
attempt, nor are the results any different.

Any helpful ideas/suggestions before I jettison the jam??

Spitz
--
"Home, James, and don't spare the horses!"

In my experience, that is endemic to unripe persimmons -- probably at least
one persimmon you used wasn't ripe, even though the others were. Have you
tried cooking some of it to see if it goes away?

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