Wheel selection

Javier said:

I purchased a 2006 Trek 1200 in late August and I'm thinking about
upgrading the stock Alex AT 450/Shimano Tiagra hubs wheels with a set
of Mavic Open Pro / Shimano Ultegra hubs that are available from
Performance. Is this a worth while upgrade or am I simply wasting
money. From what I've read Alex rims are basically a beginners wheel,
but will I notice a difference with the Mavic wheel set when it comes
to acceleration and climbing?

Thanks

Javier

According to the respective websites, an Alex AT 450 rim (cleverly)
weighs 450 grams, while a Mavic Open Pro rim weighs 425 grams. For
most people, 25 grams is trivial. (But "21 Grams" is a pretty good
movie - maybe rent it instead of buying new wheels?)

As for hubs, both Tiagra and Ultegra are very nice and will last a long
time. I won't bother looking up the weight difference there, but it
will also almost certainly be unnoticeable.

Sounds like your Trek came with pretty good wheels. Ride 'em.

-Vee

Javier,

You probably will not notice much difference in performance. But Tiagra
hubs are kind of low end and they may wear faster than Ultegra. I build
my own wheels using Ultegra hubs, double butted spokes, brass nipples
and velocity aerohead rims. These wheels are very reliable and are easy
to maintain and repair.
Velocity now makes wheels as well as rims. I am considering buying a
set of their Nuvian wheels. It would cost me about the same just to buy
the parts as the whole wheel already built. I am not sure how well
Velocity's wheels are made and they use a hub that is not a well know
brand although it does have sealed bearings which is a plus. The most
impotant thing about wheels is how well they are built and even spoke
tension. Many of the new low spoke wheels are troublesome because when
they break you end up walking or calling for help and then they can be
very expensive to repair. For that reason I have gone back to standard
28 hole 3 cross wheels.

Joel

Javier said:

I purchased a 2006 Trek 1200 in late August and I'm thinking about
upgrading the stock Alex AT 450/Shimano Tiagra hubs wheels with a set
of Mavic Open Pro / Shimano Ultegra hubs that are available from
Performance. Is this a worth while upgrade or am I simply wasting
money. From what I've read Alex rims are basically a beginners wheel,
but will I notice a difference with the Mavic wheel set when it comes
to acceleration and climbing?

Thanks

Javier

Guys,

Thanks for the advice, I guess I'll stick to my At450's and ride them
until the cows come home. I guess the best upgrade is to shave a few
pounds of extra fat off my "frame". That should make my climbs eaiser.
🙂

Joel,

i'd love to learn how to build my own wheels. Any advice for a
beginner?

Thanks,

Javier

Javier said:

From what I've read Alex rims are basically a beginners wheel,
but will I notice a difference with the Mavic wheel set when it comes
to acceleration and climbing?

Nope... I agree with Vee. You won't see a significant performance
benefit. If you want "fast" wheels you need to focus on aerodynamics,
but unless you are racing it is silly to worry about that, too. The
wheels you have should be fine, with the likely exceptions of:
a) too little grease in the hub, and
b) no stress relieving, and
c) too little tension in the rear wheel.

That doesn't mean that the wheels are "bad" at all... it's just normal
for inexpensive machine-built wheels. In my experience, dirt and water
will get in the hubs after a couple of rains because of "a", and spokes
on the non-drive side of the rear wheel will start popping after 2,000
miles or so because of "b" and "c".

Unfortunately, the wheels you get from Performance would probably have
the same problems, and you wouldn't have a local shop to take them to
(unless there is a Performance nearby). You should have at least a one
year warranty from Trek, and if it is a good shop they will take care
of any issues.

BTW, you can easily "tune" the wheels yourself with a little education
and a few tools... and then they should give you fine service.

Javier said:

i'd love to learn how to build my own wheels. Any advice for a
beginner?

Sheldon Brown's website and Jobst Brandt's book would be good places to
start. If you are bored, you can search this NG to get all sorts of
opinions.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Javier said:

Guys,

Thanks for the advice, I guess I'll stick to my At450's and ride them
until the cows come home. I guess the best upgrade is to shave a few
pounds of extra fat off my "frame". That should make my climbs eaiser.
🙂

No reason not to have a second set of wheels. In addition
to shopping for a boxed set consider building your own
wheels. The goal for a home built set of wheels is
reliability, not super race wheels. Building wheels is
fun, too.

--
Michael Press

Javier said:

Joel,

i'd love to learn how to build my own wheels. Any advice for a
beginner?

Thanks,

Javier

I'm not Joel, but I think a good place to start is learning to
true/tension and stress relieve the wheels you have (see the FAQ,
Sheldon Brown's site, etc.).

A second pair of wheels can be handy if only to keep a different set of
tires mounted, either delicate ones for racing or sturdy ones for
snow/gravel/commuting, etc.

WRT "upgrading" your current ones, you won't gain anything. All Shimano
hubs are pretty decent and Alex rims are OK, too.

Javier said:

I purchased a 2006 Trek 1200 in late August and I'm thinking about
upgrading the stock Alex AT 450/Shimano Tiagra hubs wheels with a set
of Mavic Open Pro / Shimano Ultegra hubs that are available from
Performance. Is this a worth while upgrade or am I simply wasting
money. From what I've read Alex rims are basically a beginners wheel,
but will I notice a difference with the Mavic wheel set when it comes
to acceleration and climbing?

You will notice nothing of the sort. The biggest problem with OERM
wheels are not the components but the builder. What these
wheels(Alex/Tiagra) won't be is true, round, tensioned, dished and
stress relieved. PLUS the hubs will not have enough grease in them and
not adjusted well. When ya get the bike have the shop do the above,
insist even when thewy say it has(it hasn't been done by the pimmply
faced builder)...then your wheels will be fine

NEVER expect huge, significant cycling performance differences from
components.

Quoted message said:

Thanks

Javier

Ron Ruff said:

Javier said:

i'd love to learn how to build my own wheels. Any advice for a
beginner?

Sheldon Brown's website and Jobst Brandt's book would be good places to
start. If you are bored, you can search this NG to get all sorts of
opinions.

Also Gerd Schraener's book, the Art of Wheelbuilding. Good info, easier
read than Jobst, IMO-

What? Can't I just BUY speed?

Joel said:

You probably will not notice much difference in performance. But Tiagra
hubs are kind of low end and they may wear faster than Ultegra.

Nonsense. Even the cheapest hubs last practically forever if you keep
them clean and greased. And even Tiagra hubs are better sealed these days
than Ultegra and Dura Ace used to be.

The only real difference is that the more expensive ones have a nicer
finish, and might be a few grams lighter.

Matt O.

In response to:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You probably will not notice much difference in performance. But Tiagra
hubs are kind of low end and they may wear faster than Ultegra.

Matt O'Toole said:

Nonsense. Even the cheapest hubs last practically forever if you keep
them clean and greased. And even Tiagra hubs are better sealed these days
than Ultegra and Dura Ace used to be.

The only real difference is that the more expensive ones have a nicer
finish, and might be a few grams lighter.

That's correct. One thing that might account for that perception (aside
from snob appeal) is that less expensive bikes, that come with, say,
Tiagra hubs, are less likely to receive careful assembly at the shop, so
the hubs are less likely to be correctly adjusted.

Quick release hubs generally are delivered too tight, and riding them
that way causes accelerated wear.

Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.com/cones" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Any smoothly functioning technology |
| will have the appearance of magic. |
| --Arthur C. Clarke |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Andrew F Martin said:

What? Can't I just BUY speed?

you can, but in Pagosa Springs, it'll get you about 12 years
http://www.pagosasun.com/november2405.htm

SYJ

Matt O'Toole said:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:08:26 -0800, Joel wrote:

Quoted message said:

Nonsense. Even the cheapest hubs last practically forever if you keep
them clean and greased. And even Tiagra hubs are better sealed these days
than Ultegra and Dura Ace used to be.

I'm curious about the seals on cup-cone hubs. Do they really make much
difference? What sort of service intervals can a person expect?

I've been riding on wheels that have the Shimano 2200 hubs (below Sora
level). These have nothing that could be called a seal... no rubber, no
labrinth... just a gap between the shield and the cone. After I
initially packed the bearings with marine grease, I decided to stick
some rubber grommets over the cones, to hopefully make the bearings
less exposed to the environment.

They lasted about 5,000 miles, including a fair amount of rainy riding,
before I noticed a clicking sound coming from the hubs whenever I'd
spin the wheels. At first I thought they must have been full of grit,
but now I wonder if it wasn't just the bearings clicking whenever they
reached an unpre-loaded point in the cycle... I generally adjust them
so that there is a tiny bit of play at some point in their rotation
(installed). The grease inside was thinner and darker than when I
packed them, but it really didn't look bad.

I'm wondering whether the grommets really help, or if the marine grease
would do a fair job of sealing that opening by itself. I also wonder if
the "sealed mechanisms" on the higher end hubs do much of anything. Any
thoughts or experiences? It'd be nice to be able to do 10,000 or 20,000
miles without touching the hubs...

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll stick to my wheels.

Javier

Andrew F Martin said:

What? Can't I just BUY speed?

Sometimes.
But there isn't always a direct correlation between speed
and money.

We recently built 36h 250g vintage rims with 220g tubulars
on current Record hubs for a new bike - at a fraction of the
weight and cost of wheels much less durable. . .

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Javier said:

i'd love to learn how to build my own wheels. Any advice for a
beginner?

'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt, Avocet Press
$24.99, or a used copy

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Andrew F Martin said:

What? Can't I just BUY speed?

Sometimes.
But there isn't always a direct correlation between speed
and money.

We recently built 36h 250g vintage rims with 220g tubulars
on current Record hubs for a new bike - at a fraction of the
weight and cost of wheels much less durable. . .

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Reality, what a concept.