Monte Perdido

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

Hi,

Thank you for your e-mail acknowledging my route suggestion. From what I
remember ascending Perdido from the Goriz refuge is fairly straightforward.
Although I do not recall any serious snow patches on Perdido(twenty years
ago) I always think that an ice axe and crampons are useful in the Pyrenees.
There is a sort of wide gully on the final section which, I understand, can
clog with snow in a bad winter. That said many do climb it without
axe/crampons as I believe it is possible to avoid the snow patches. If you
are ascending from the Refuge de la Breche to the Breche(to get to Goriz)
itself then an axe and crampons wil make for faster progress on the
permanent snow field above the hut.

When are you going? Try to get some axe/crampon practice in this winter!

Altitude is not really a problem in the Pyrenees if you are reasonably fit.

On 25 Nov 2005 00:27:43 -0800, "Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

You need to book the hut about 6 months in advance, otherwise you can
camp. The ascent is straightforward, but you do have to cross a
couple of dirty snow fields, so crampons and ice axe are advisable.
Being a non-technical ascent you should be able to get away with an
ascent without having been on a winter skills course, but a winter
ascent in the UK using ice axe and crampons with an experienced friend
beforehand should be a priority.

On 25 Nov 2005 00:27:43 -0800, "Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

What time of year? We did it in September, and there was no need for
any snow skills or equipment. Since we had axes and crampons with us
we picked a route across the snow/ice, but everyone else stuck to the
snow-free footpath. There was a small snow field on the summit, where
we were happier with crampons on, but nobody else did! It's popular
enough that there is generally a trail through the snow.

As for booking the hut 6 months in advance - that might be required in
July/August I suppose, though quite unusual. But we just turned up
without booking, and there was no problem.

S.

--
Oppose ID cards and the database state - sign the pledge at
http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge in
the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times you
have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites. In the
summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are situated
50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is seriously
overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often groups of Brits
on guided tours organised by British adventure tour companies whose guides
tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will proudly tell you that they
have a good way of improving "group cohesion", and that it involves giving
their group unlimited access to alcohol - which really pisses off most other
people. Sleeping is difficult, as I said, most of the people that sleep in
goriz these days are older, usually men in their late 40's upwards, they
snore and fart all night. This might be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees.
Sleep outside and try and get a meal and breakfast inside.

Altitude is not a problem, the refuge is at 2200m (you can camp the night
outside), this altitude is almost equal to the decompression inside a normal
aeroplane in flight. The route to the summit is not strenuos and taken
slowly the peak at about 3500m is not difficult. The walk to the refuge
from Torla is tedious, if you make that you can make the summitt.

Ice axe and crampons- between December and end of June I would consider them
to be essential, unless otherwise told by people that you have met that have
climbed the peak the previous day. August as far as I can tell is always ok
without crampons but there are a couple of patches of snow that really
require carrying an ice axe. Do not take the advice of the Goriz refuge
guardians, they get younger and more reckless each year. There is nearly
always an uptodate weather forecast on the refuge noticeboard.

Good luck

"mikek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge in
the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times you
have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites. In
the summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are
situated 50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is
seriously overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often
groups of Brits on guided tours organised by British adventure tour
companies whose guides tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will
proudly tell you that they have a good way of improving "group cohesion",
and that it involves giving their group unlimited access to alcohol -
which really pisses off most other people. Sleeping is difficult, as I
said, most of the people that sleep in goriz these days are older, usually
men in their late 40's upwards, they snore and fart all night. This might
be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees. Sleep outside and try and get a meal
and breakfast inside.

Altitude is not a problem, the refuge is at 2200m (you can camp the night
outside), this altitude is almost equal to the decompression inside a
normal aeroplane in flight. The route to the summit is not strenuos and
taken slowly the peak at about 3500m is not difficult. The walk to the
refuge from Torla is tedious, if you make that you can make the summitt.

Ice axe and crampons- between December and end of June I would consider
them to be essential, unless otherwise told by people that you have met
that have climbed the peak the previous day. August as far as I can tell
is always ok without crampons but there are a couple of patches of snow
that really require carrying an ice axe. Do not take the advice of the
Goriz refuge guardians, they get younger and more reckless each year.
There is nearly always an uptodate weather forecast on the refuge
noticeboard.

Good luck

Whilst I cannot comment on the current state of the Goriz hut - it is twenty
years since I was there - I do take exception to your implied prejudice
about older people. As a 60 year old still active walker I could probably
fart and snore the pants off you any day, especially in the Pyrenees!

Behave yourself and you might make sixty yourself one day!

mikek said:

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge in
the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times you
have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites. In the
summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are situated
50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is seriously
overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often groups of Brits
on guided tours organised by British adventure tour companies whose guides
tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will proudly tell you that they
have a good way of improving "group cohesion", and that it involves giving
their group unlimited access to alcohol - which really pisses off most other
people. Sleeping is difficult, as I said, most of the people that sleep in
goriz these days are older, usually men in their late 40's upwards, they
snore and fart all night. This might be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees.
Sleep outside and try and get a meal and breakfast inside.

The refuge has recently been refitted.

They cook meals for 80 people, with accommodation for 60 people. If
you camp a meal is not gauranteed.

"Michael Hobby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"mikek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge
in the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times
you have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites.
In the summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are
situated 50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is
seriously overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often
groups of Brits on guided tours organised by British adventure tour
companies whose guides tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will
proudly tell you that they have a good way of improving "group cohesion",
and that it involves giving their group unlimited access to alcohol -
which really pisses off most other people. Sleeping is difficult, as I
said, most of the people that sleep in goriz these days are older,
usually men in their late 40's upwards, they snore and fart all night.
This might be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees. Sleep outside and try and
get a meal and breakfast inside.

Altitude is not a problem, the refuge is at 2200m (you can camp the night
outside), this altitude is almost equal to the decompression inside a
normal aeroplane in flight. The route to the summit is not strenuos and
taken slowly the peak at about 3500m is not difficult. The walk to the
refuge from Torla is tedious, if you make that you can make the summitt.

Ice axe and crampons- between December and end of June I would consider
them to be essential, unless otherwise told by people that you have met
that have climbed the peak the previous day. August as far as I can tell
is always ok without crampons but there are a couple of patches of snow
that really require carrying an ice axe. Do not take the advice of the
Goriz refuge guardians, they get younger and more reckless each year.
There is nearly always an uptodate weather forecast on the refuge
noticeboard.

Good luck

Whilst I cannot comment on the current state of the Goriz hut - it is
twenty years since I was there - I do take exception to your implied
prejudice about older people. As a 60 year old still active walker I could
probably fart and snore the pants off you any day, especially in the
Pyrenees!

Behave yourself and you might make sixty yourself one day!

I left the third annoying thing, which is the twice nightly visiter to the
loo, of which I am one :-(

"Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mikek said:

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge in
the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times you
have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites. In
the
summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are situated
50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is seriously
overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often groups of
Brits
on guided tours organised by British adventure tour companies whose
guides
tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will proudly tell you that
they
have a good way of improving "group cohesion", and that it involves giving
their group unlimited access to alcohol - which really pisses off most
other
people. Sleeping is difficult, as I said, most of the people that sleep in
goriz these days are older, usually men in their late 40's upwards, they
snore and fart all night. This might be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees.
Sleep outside and try and get a meal and breakfast inside.

The refuge has recently been refitted.

They cook meals for 80 people, with accommodation for 60 people. If
you camp a meal is not gauranteed.

Refitted!!! When was that? I was there July 2005 and it was worse than
ever. I have seen the refuge every year since 1999 and its been getting
steadily worse. This summer I spent 1 night there and needed antihistamines
to cope with the flea bites, I know it was fleas because I caught one.

Yes, you are right about meals not being guaranteed.

mikek said:

Refitted!!! When was that? I was there July 2005 and it was worse than
ever. I have seen the refuge every year since 1999 and its been getting
steadily worse. This summer I spent 1 night there and needed antihistamines
to cope with the flea bites, I know it was fleas because I caught one.

Bunks have risen from 72 to 96, apparently. You should have seen it
before the refit. ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/b67lo

Quoted message said:

Yes, you are right about meals not being guaranteed.

With the caveat that I haven't climbed it myself, but have been in the
vicinity a couple of times - great area by the way - I know people who
have climbed it quite happily without axes, though with the odd snow
patch to cross. They are normally fit adventurous hill-walkers rather
than serious climbers as such, if that's any guide. I'd say walking
poles would be highly recommended as a (inferior) substitute for an axe
under these circumstances. Personally I'd probably risk it without an
axe, as it's a long way to carry one and not (really) need it. If I had
a car, I would however take it on the holiday, and judge whether to
carry it according to my thoughts at the time. All this assumes you are
talking about a summer trip - at this time of year, you'd definitely
want axe, crampons, the lot, and it would be a serious undertaking.

Cheers

Hywel

Thanks for all the replies... our foreign trips are always
mid-september - cheaper air fares, no school kids etc - so by the sound
of it we **should** be OK without snow/ice skills.

We stopped camping (abroad) becuase we can do/see so much more without
all of the clobber (therefore weight) required... I appreciate the huts
can be cosy - with all the "benefits" this brings ... but your
descriptions are putting me off! Any alternatives?

On 28 Nov 2005 14:00:27 -0800, "Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the replies... our foreign trips are always
mid-september - cheaper air fares, no school kids etc - so by the sound
of it we **should** be OK without snow/ice skills.

Take an axe at the very least and spend a day in Britain in winter
conditions.

Quoted message said:

We stopped camping (abroad) becuase we can do/see so much more without
all of the clobber (therefore weight) required... I appreciate the huts
can be cosy - with all the "benefits" this brings ... but your
descriptions are putting me off! Any alternatives?

Two. Bivi, or climb the hill and back in a day. Don't be too put off
by Goriz. It's warm and dry, and once asleep you don't notice your
surroundings.

On 28 Nov 2005 14:00:27 -0800, "Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the replies... our foreign trips are always
mid-september - cheaper air fares, no school kids etc - so by the sound
of it we **should** be OK without snow/ice skills.

Unless of course you hit the first snows of winter ;-)

Quoted message said:

We stopped camping (abroad) becuase we can do/see so much more without
all of the clobber (therefore weight) required... I appreciate the huts
can be cosy - with all the "benefits" this brings ... but your
descriptions are putting me off! Any alternatives?

If it's anything like as bad as some have said, then it's changed
hugely in the last 7 years since I was there. I thought it just a
normal mountain hut, with all that implies, both good and bad.

S.

--
Oppose ID cards and the database state - sign the pledge at
http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse

I camped at the Goriz hut last summer, early July or very late June.
There was some snow around above the hut but none at the hut itself.

It is very crowded and quite expensive. Camping is a good option, there
are lots of 'ready made' pitches and some stunning views.

Jay

Michael Hobby said:

"mikek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)

One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.

I appreciate that:

(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
this in the USA.
(b) possibility(!) of bad weather

But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
for snow and ice skills - we have none?

I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
do it without ice axe etc.?

Any help appreciated.

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge in
the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times you
have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites. In
the summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are
situated 50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is
seriously overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often
groups of Brits on guided tours organised by British adventure tour
companies whose guides tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will
proudly tell you that they have a good way of improving "group cohesion",
and that it involves giving their group unlimited access to alcohol -
which really pisses off most other people. Sleeping is difficult, as I
said, most of the people that sleep in goriz these days are older, usually
men in their late 40's upwards, they snore and fart all night. This might
be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees. Sleep outside and try and get a meal
and breakfast inside.

Altitude is not a problem, the refuge is at 2200m (you can camp the night
outside), this altitude is almost equal to the decompression inside a
normal aeroplane in flight. The route to the summit is not strenuos and
taken slowly the peak at about 3500m is not difficult. The walk to the
refuge from Torla is tedious, if you make that you can make the summitt.

Ice axe and crampons- between December and end of June I would consider
them to be essential, unless otherwise told by people that you have met
that have climbed the peak the previous day. August as far as I can tell
is always ok without crampons but there are a couple of patches of snow
that really require carrying an ice axe. Do not take the advice of the
Goriz refuge guardians, they get younger and more reckless each year.
There is nearly always an uptodate weather forecast on the refuge
noticeboard.

Good luck

Whilst I cannot comment on the current state of the Goriz hut - it is twenty
years since I was there - I do take exception to your implied prejudice
about older people. As a 60 year old still active walker I could probably
fart and snore the pants off you any day, especially in the Pyrenees!

Behave yourself and you might make sixty yourself one day!

Hi, yes I'd agree with the camping option. Its a bit of a downer at first,
seeing all these people hanging about the refuge and wondering if you are
missing out on something special. But you can nearly always have the 6.30am
breakfast which is not so nice but comes with a hot drink and that makes up
for any camping discomfort. I have spend a few nights in one of those
claustrophobic gortex bivi bags near the refuge and it really is rough and
lonely. But having spent a few nights inside the refuge is an experience I
don't want to repeat too often.

What did you do aruond there?

"Jay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I camped at the Goriz hut last summer, early July or very late June. There
was some snow around above the hut but none at the hut itself.

It is very crowded and quite expensive. Camping is a good option, there
are lots of 'ready made' pitches and some stunning views.

Jay

Michael Hobby said:

"mikek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Northern Helmets" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>I recently asked a question on this group about suggested routes around
>the Pyrenees (thanks for all the replies!)
>
>One night on our trip would probably be at the Goriz hut on the Spanish
>side, with the obvious option of climing Monte Perdido the next day.
>
>I appreciate that:
>
>(a) there may be an altitude issue - though we have climbed higher than
>this in the USA.
>(b) possibility(!) of bad weather
>
>But the concern I have is the under-foot conditions. Is there any need
>for snow and ice skills - we have none?
>
>I am happy to be at the hut, and if the conditions dictate not climb
>Monte Perdido, I guess the question is on a good day is it possible to
>do it without ice axe etc.?
>
>Any help appreciated.
>

My number one concern is that if you intend to stay at the Goriz refuge
in the summer it will be a disgusting experience. At the best of times
you have to put up with black mould coming off the walls and flea bites.
In the summer the nearby stream is full of toilet paper. The toilets are
situated 50m away from the sleeping quarters. The refuge itself is
seriously overcrowded, mainly by older non Spaniards. There are often
groups of Brits on guided tours organised by British adventure tour
companies whose guides tend to be in their early 20's. These guides will
proudly tell you that they have a good way of improving "group cohesion",
and that it involves giving their group unlimited access to alcohol -
which really pisses off most other people. Sleeping is difficult, as I
said, most of the people that sleep in goriz these days are older,
usually men in their late 40's upwards, they snore and fart all night.
This might be the worse refuge in the Pyrenees. Sleep outside and try and
get a meal and breakfast inside.

Altitude is not a problem, the refuge is at 2200m (you can camp the night
outside), this altitude is almost equal to the decompression inside a
normal aeroplane in flight. The route to the summit is not strenuos and
taken slowly the peak at about 3500m is not difficult. The walk to the
refuge from Torla is tedious, if you make that you can make the summitt.

Ice axe and crampons- between December and end of June I would consider
them to be essential, unless otherwise told by people that you have met
that have climbed the peak the previous day. August as far as I can tell
is always ok without crampons but there are a couple of patches of snow
that really require carrying an ice axe. Do not take the advice of the
Goriz refuge guardians, they get younger and more reckless each year.
There is nearly always an uptodate weather forecast on the refuge
noticeboard.

Good luck

Whilst I cannot comment on the current state of the Goriz hut - it is
twenty years since I was there - I do take exception to your implied
prejudice about older people. As a 60 year old still active walker I
could probably fart and snore the pants off you any day, especially in
the Pyrenees!

Behave yourself and you might make sixty yourself one day!

See map 3 at
http://www.phholidays.co.uk/Activities/Walking/lonely03_18_19.htm
The pitches before collado de Anisclo are much better and there, it's
very quiet.

Ivo

Camping is non-starter for us. We wild camp everytime in the UK, when
abroad we will always use a pre-booked hut. We are there for the
walking... we can see & do much more with a MUCH lighter back on our
backs and when we go (September) the places are never more than half
full.

The trouble with camping is that you need (apart from the obvious kit)
to carry your own food / cooking equipment/ fuel... It's no good saying
you can "usually" rely on a meal at the hut. You need to know where
your meal is coming from after a hard day.

We have a route (or 99% of one)... now to decide on whether to fly or
train it...

Once we have an itinary I shall post here - worth a laugh!!

Loads of wild camping articles on http://www.thehelmets.co.uk