Rivnut bottle mount seized

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of the
rivnut is available.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Paul - censored said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of the
rivnut is available.

Drill + easyout would be my choice. Get a good quality new bit, HSS
or Cobalt if its a SS screw, as large as possible, centre-punch as
accurately as possible, lash some grease on it and drill slowly and
accurately. Use the correct sized easyout for the hole and should pop
out a treat.
Copper-grease is a good idea when reassembling, especially for steel
screw in an ally thread.

sothach said:

Paul - censored said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of the
rivnut is available.

Drill + easyout would be my choice. Get a good quality new bit, HSS
or Cobalt if its a SS screw, as large as possible, centre-punch as
accurately as possible, lash some grease on it and drill slowly and
accurately. Use the correct sized easyout for the hole and should pop
out a treat.
Copper-grease is a good idea when reassembling, especially for steel
screw in an ally thread.

It will just spin the rivnut.
You need to try something smart first like superglue or epoxy to fix
the rivnut in place. Then you have a fighting chance of being able to
get some purchase on the bolt.

So:
1. glue around the rivnut. superglue runs well so may be the one of
choice as it will flow into the gap between the rivnut and frame.

2. When this has set, penetrating oil is your friend. leave to soak in.

3. now you have a fighting chance of getting th ebolt out.

...d

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to

loosen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rivnut is available.

Drill + easyout would be my choice. Get a good quality new bit, HSS
or Cobalt if its a SS screw, as large as possible, centre-punch as
accurately as possible, lash some grease on it and drill slowly and
accurately. Use the correct sized easyout for the hole and should pop
out a treat.
Copper-grease is a good idea when reassembling, especially for steel
screw in an ally thread.

This won't work if the rivnut is loose on the hole in the frame - it'll just
spin.

If the bolt _not_ stainless, you might be able to build a dam out of wax and
dissolve the bolt with nitic acid. This is not a procedure for the faint of
heart or unsteady hands. HNO3 is bad stuff - but it won't attack aluminium.
It _will_ attack lots of other things, including flesh.

Myself, I'd use a good penetrating oil and some heat.

Well, no,actually; I wouldn't have got an aluminium frame to begin with....

jtaylor said:

If the bolt _not_ stainless, you might be able to build a dam out of wax and
dissolve the bolt with nitic acid. This is not a procedure for the faint of
heart or unsteady hands. HNO3 is bad stuff - but it won't attack aluminium.

Umm.. it will if you have a few other things around to remove the
oxidising layer on the Alu, such as mercury salts.

Quoted message said:

It _will_ attack lots of other things, including flesh.

Very definitely. Not something to be played with lightly (if at all).

Quoted message said:

Myself, I'd use a good penetrating oil and some heat.

Well, no,actually; I wouldn't have got an aluminium frame to begin with....

"If I were going there I wouldn't start from here".

...d

David Martin said:

It will just spin the rivnut.
You need to try something smart first like superglue or epoxy to fix
the rivnut in place. Then you have a fighting chance of being able to
get some purchase on the bolt.

So:
1. glue around the rivnut. superglue runs well so may be the one of
choice as it will flow into the gap between the rivnut and frame.

Is superglue super enough for that kind of torque? I think I'd get one
of the band-on bottle cage holders at this stage...

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Any chance you could fit two Jubilee clips around the downtube either side
of the seized bolt and close enough together to sit on the rivnuts face?
(oo, err missus)
This may apply sufficient force to grip the rivnut while you try and remove
the bolt wuth pliers or a screw extractor.
--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/Stuff

David Martin ([email hidden]) wrote:
: "If I were going there I wouldn't start from here".
: ..d

Completely off-topic ... were you in Tescos (Kingsway) last night at
about 10pm? Wasn't sure if it was you so didn't say 'hi' incase I
looked even more of a [censored] that usual.
Blair

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

It will just spin the rivnut.
You need to try something smart first like superglue or epoxy to fix
the rivnut in place. Then you have a fighting chance of being able to
get some purchase on the bolt.

So:
1. glue around the rivnut. superglue runs well so may be the one of
choice as it will flow into the gap between the rivnut and frame.

Is superglue super enough for that kind of torque? I think I'd get one
of the band-on bottle cage holders at this stage...

If the rivnut is aluminium then heating the assembly may crack the
rivnut-bolt interface. The problem is getting enough heat into it to let
the differential thermal expansion do its job without damaging the paint etc

John

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Depends what the desired end result is, given that the rivnut is now,
presumably, useless, even with the bolt out.

1. Cosmetic treatment to remove usightly bolt:
a. Saw/grid/file away the protruding part.
b. Fill/paint/tape over to conceal.

or
2. Removal of rivnut completely:
a. Saw/grind/file down to a reasonably flat and square surface just proud
of the frame.
b. Tightly apply strong sticky tape (duct tape or similar) and ensure it
is well stuck around the rivnut, rubbing round firmly with thumbnail, or
whatever.
c. Carefully centre-punch the centre of the stump.
d. Drill a pilot hole into the bolt, about 1/4 inch deep, starting with a
small bit, and then stepping up in increments up to a bit about the same
size as the bolt outside diameter, using sharp bits, and a fast drill, and
applying light pressure to minimize torque on the rivnut.
e. If you think you can reuse the rivnut you'll now need to pick out
what's left of the bolt thread.
otherwise...
f. Using a bit about the same diameter as the flange of the rivnut
carfully countersink the hole until the flange of the rivnut comes off - and
the body of the rivnut, with what's left of the bolt, falls dutifully inside
the frame :-)

--
Matt B

Mark said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

I recently had this very same problem on an aluminium-framed Vitus
992. I addressed it by grinding the head off the bolt, allowing me to
remove the bottle cage. With the cage out of the way I could hold the
rivnut with a small Vise-Grip (mole wrench?) and back what was left of
the bolt out with a pair of pliers.

Chances are the problem isn't really that the bolt is seized, but that
the rivnut is loose.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Mark said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Oh yes...follow-up to my previous post:

Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
to reset the loose rivnut.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul - [censored]

(') said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to
loosen the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a
couple of weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of
the rivnut is available.

Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!

To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
and then /gently/ try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
work but it's worth a try.

Failing that I would be trying the angle grinder, but /very/ carefully,
trying to take the top off the rivnut without touching the tube. A drill
isn't going to work as the rivnut will just rotate in the hole. You
REALLY do not want to touch the tube with an angle grinder!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

sothach said:

Paul - censored said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized
into the rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame.

Drill + easyout would be my choice. Get a good quality new bit, HSS
or Cobalt if its a SS screw, as large as possible, centre-punch as
accurately as possible, lash some grease on it and drill slowly and
accurately. Use the correct sized easyout for the hole and should pop
out a treat.
Copper-grease is a good idea when reassembling, especially for steel
screw in an ally thread.

Don't use an easy out on a seized bolt, it'll snap off leaving a bigger
problem. Especially with a small bolt size.

Apparently, copper grease isn't all that good for stainless/aluminium.

--
Mike

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul - [censored]

(') said:

Mark came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to
loosen the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a
couple of weeks ago and now it's seized!

Ideas?!

Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of
the rivnut is available.

Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!

To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
and then /gently/ try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
work but it's worth a try.

How do you know the rivnut is knackered? It's probably just loosened
in its hole. All you need to do (as I mentioned in a previous post to
this thread) is have it reset (tightened) using the appropriate tool.
Most C'dale dealers (at least here in the U.S.) have the tool.

I've found that (again, here in the U.S.) aircraft mechanics typically
also have rivnut tools. I've had a bottle cage rivnut reset at a local
FBO (Fixed Base Operator), the aircraft equivalent of an automobile
service station, found at one's local airport (aerodrome?).

Bottle cage screws are typical M5x0.8. This is so close to a 10-32
that in practice there's no real difference. The A&P (Airframe and
Powerplant mechanic) who tightened my loose bottle cage rivnut used a
10-32 mandrel. That was at least nine years ago and the rivnut is
still holding.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

B.G. Finlay said:

David Martin ([email hidden]) wrote:
: "If I were going there I wouldn't start from here".
: ..d

Completely off-topic ... were you in Tescos (Kingsway) last night at
about 10pm? Wasn't sure if it was you so didn't say 'hi' incase I
looked even more of a [censored] that usual.

Guilty as charged. Had to pick a few bits up on my way back from
Broughty Ferry. Bit of a cold biting wind.

...d

John Everett said:

Mark said:

Hi

I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!

Oh yes...follow-up to my previous post:

Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
to reset the loose rivnut.

You could actually do this yourself by screwing a nut onto an
appropriately sized bolt, dropping a washer on top and screwing it into
the rivnut. To tighten the rivnut all you do is unscrew the nut hard
against the rivnut whilst holding the bolt still.

Come to think of it if you've got some threads projecting out of the
rivnut already you might be able to tighten the rivnut then remove the
bolt afterwards.

Alex

Alexander Rice said:

Quoted message said:

Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
to reset the loose rivnut.

You could actually do this yourself by screwing a nut onto an
appropriately sized bolt, dropping a washer on top and screwing it into
the rivnut. To tighten the rivnut all you do is unscrew the nut hard
against the rivnut whilst holding the bolt still.

Thank you Alex, I've just tightened the rivnut on My Pricipia using this
technique.

--chris

in message <[email hidden]>, John Everett

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!

To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
and then gently try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
work but it's worth a try.

How do you know the rivnut is knackered? It's probably just loosened
in its hole. All you need to do (as I mentioned in a previous post to
this thread) is have it reset (tightened) using the appropriate tool.
Most C'dale dealers (at least here in the U.S.) have the tool.

Fair enough, but until he's got the bolt out of the rivnut he won't be
able to get a rivnut tool into it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.