Upgrading Sidepull Brakes

I am buildiing up a bike on a Tri frame and went for new Promax Dual Pivot Calipers with cartridge shoes and new cables. Do likewise... 😎

bajs-eye said:

I've just bought a new (secondhand) Road bike and I am loving it. However with my new found speed and the side pull brakes I'm finding that stopping leaves a little to be desired. Is it worth getting dual pivot brakes? Should I just get new brake blocks (the current ones are hardly worn, but they may be a bit old)?

Also my levers seem quite stiff but I guess that that is set by the springs in the brakes. I'd quite like a lighter feel to them so any suggestions here would be nice too.

What brakes do you have now (brand and model, if possible)? What levers? How old is the bike?

IME, many older brakes can be easily and (fairly cheaply) upgraded significantly with new pads, new cable and careful set-up.

gclark8 said:

I am buildiing up a bike on a Tri frame and went for new Promax Dual Pivot Calipers with cartridge shoes and new cables. Do likewise... 😎

You are into throwing money away?

boudreaux said:

You are into throwing money away?

Do you advocate buying a new bike rather than improving an old one with better brakes?

boudreaux said:

You are into throwing money away?

Mr B, these look like Ultegra at 1/4 the Ultegra price in Aus...?? Explain??

gclark8 said:

Mr B, these look like Ultegra at 1/4 the Ultegra price in Aus...?? Explain??

Maybe all he needs is pads, and casing and cables on the old ones. The casing and cables would be needed with new calipers anyway....but without even knowing what he/she has, maybe the whole bike wold be better off in a dumpster.

OK, point taken, If I was paying his bill then i guess my advice would have been OK.

On the TRy project, almost finished, just waiting for the tyres, then the chain goes on... will try to get some pix.

The brakes are shimano 600 and the levers are Shimano STI 105s. I think that the new cables and pads idea sounds worth a go (even though I have spotted a good half price deal on some campag mirage dual pivot callipers)

Whole bike in the dumpster ..... but I like a good project! Anyway just so that we now have the dumpster debate (what am I letting myself in for....)

21" Reynolds 531 frame, mavic open4 rims with shimano 105 hubs, Stronglight chainset (plus cheap and heavy replacement left hand crank!) Shimano 600 front mech, Deore DX rear mech.

and just so you can picture me in your minds I'm a he.

bajs-eye said:

The brakes are shimano 600 and the levers are Shimano STI 105s. I think that the new cables and pads idea sounds worth a go (even though I have spotted a good half price deal on some campag mirage dual pivot callipers)

Whole bike in the dumpster ..... but I like a good project! Anyway just so that we now have the dumpster debate (what am I letting myself in for....)

21" Reynolds 531 frame, mavic open4 rims with shimano 105 hubs, Stronglight chainset (plus cheap and heavy replacement left hand crank!) Shimano 600 front mech, Deore DX rear mech.

and just so you can picture me in your minds I'm a he.

If it was me I'd buy the campag dual pivots, as well as replacing the cables.

bajs-eye said:

The brakes are shimano 600 and the levers are Shimano STI 105s. I think that the new cables and pads idea sounds worth a go (even though I have spotted a good half price deal on some campag mirage dual pivot callipers)

Whole bike in the dumpster ..... but I like a good project! Anyway just so that we now have the dumpster debate (what am I letting myself in for....)

21" Reynolds 531 frame, mavic open4 rims with shimano 105 hubs, Stronglight chainset (plus cheap and heavy replacement left hand crank!) Shimano 600 front mech, Deore DX rear mech.

and just so you can picture me in your minds I'm a he.

Your STI levers were designed for dual pivot brakes, so they pull less cable than levers designed for single pivot side pulls. This means that the set up will be a little fussier (pads must be set closer to the rims) than if you were using the original Shimano 600 levers. Also, depending on the vintage of the 600 calipers (there is a # on the back "BR-6xxx" that can narrow this down), they may pre-date Shimano SLR, meaning they will have stronger springs in the calipers. Combined with the return springs in your STI levers (part of SLR), this will make the action of the brakes seem a little heavier.

All that said, your 600 calipers are very high quality and some of us even feel that single pivot brakes can have better modulation ("feel"😉 than do dual pivots. And they can be made to work well with your STI levers. Try some sanely priced new pads (e.g., Shimano M50T) and some sanely priced new cable and housing. I think you will get good results.

You found a 531 frame in the dumpster? Lucky guy! What maker? The rest of the components are very decent quality, but if the Stronglight crank has an older, non-standard BCD, you might want to wave good bye to it.

bajs-eye said:

The brakes are shimano 600 and the levers are Shimano STI 105s. I think that the new cables and pads idea sounds worth a go (even though I have spotted a good half price deal on some campag mirage dual pivot callipers)

Whole bike in the dumpster ..... but I like a good project! Anyway just so that we now have the dumpster debate (what am I letting myself in for....)

21" Reynolds 531 frame, mavic open4 rims with shimano 105 hubs, Stronglight chainset (plus cheap and heavy replacement left hand crank!) Shimano 600 front mech, Deore DX rear mech.

and just so you can picture me in your minds I'm a he.

Your STI levers were designed for dual pivot brakes, so they pull less cable than levers designed for single pivot side pulls. This means that the set up will be a little fussier (pads must be set closer to the rims) than if you were using the original Shimano 600 levers. Also, depending on the vintage of the 600 calipers (there is a # on the back "BR-6xxx" that can narrow this down), they may pre-date Shimano SLR, meaning they will have stronger springs in the calipers. Combined with the return springs in your STI levers (part of SLR), this will make the action of the brakes seem a little heavier.

All that said, your 600 calipers are very high quality and some of us even feel that single pivot brakes can have better modulation ("feel"😉 than do dual pivots. And they can be made to work well with your STI levers. Try some sanely priced new pads (e.g., Shimano M50T) and some sanely priced new cable and housing. I think you will get good results.

You found a 531 frame in the dumpster? Lucky guy! What maker? The rest of the components are very decent quality, but if the Stronglight crank has an older, non-standard BCD, you might want to wave good bye to it.

Thanks for the advice,sounds like I may have over eagerly splashed out on the new brakes!

I forgot to look at the number on the back, so no further identifiaction there then. I did notice with the 600s that if I increased the clearance from the rim that although I have to move the lever more overall I get more mechanical advantage when the force really needs applying. So I think that I'll continue to have a play around and sell on whichever brakes don't make the rub.

I think that the frame is a Raleigh roadrace (definitely Raleigh but not sure about the roadrace bit ...slightly incomplete ebay history!) I didn't find it in the dumpster I'm afraid but Boudreaux was making the point that since I didn't say what the bike was that putting it in the dumpster might be the cheapest upgrade option!

bajs-eye said:

Thanks for the advice,sounds like I may have over eagerly splashed out on the new brakes!

I forgot to look at the number on the back, so no further identifiaction there then. I did notice with the 600s that if I increased the clearance from the rim that although I have to move the lever more overall I get more mechanical advantage when the force really needs applying. So I think that I'll continue to have a play around and sell on whichever brakes don't make the rub.

I think that the frame is a Raleigh roadrace (definitely Raleigh but not sure about the roadrace bit ...slightly incomplete ebay history!) I didn't find it in the dumpster I'm afraid but Boudreaux was making the point that since I didn't say what the bike was that putting it in the dumpster might be the cheapest upgrade option!

So, you bought some new dual pivots? They should be easier to set up with your levers. Other matters, such as modulation, appearance (on a vintage frame), etc. are more subjective.

Do you have any pics of the frame? It might help ID it.

When I got into road riding after MTB, I found the stopping distance to be scary. Most of the problem could be in your head. Since you're going faster, your stopping distance is greater.

Dieseldan said:

When I got into road riding after MTB, I found the stopping distance to be scary. Most of the problem could be in your head. Since you're going faster, your stopping distance is greater.

Yeah I think there's an element of that too, but I'm pretty sure things could be better.

OK new one for you all. The new brakes I bought have a recessed fixing bolt and the hole in my frame is not big enough for this. Is drilling out the hole a good idea? It doesn't have too far to go but I'm not really liking the sound of it too much.

Whady'a think?

Here's a picture by the way, sorry about the quality but its the e-bay picture rather than one of my own!

Answering my own posts.....you can tell its a slow day at work. I've found this article just in case anyone is still reading and may find it of interest

sheldonbrown.comgloss r.htmlOpen ↗

its about how to fit recessed bolt callipers to old frames (if you hadn't guessed)

bajs-eye said:

Answering my own posts.....you can tell its a slow day at work. I've found this article just in case anyone is still reading and may find it of interest

sheldonbrown.comgloss r.htmlOpen ↗

its about how to fit recessed bolt callipers to old frames (if you hadn't guessed)

Yes, it can be done. But why would you want to? Your old 600 calipers will work just fine with new pads, and new cables and housings - all without the risk of buggering your frame.

BTW, the fact that your 600 calipers are nutted (v. recessed) almost certainly means they are of "pre-SLR" vintage.

bajs-eye said:

OK new one for you all. The new brakes I bought have a recessed fixing bolt and the hole in my frame is not big enough for this. Is drilling out the hole a good idea? It doesn't have too far to go but I'm not really liking the sound of it too much.

Whady'a think?

Here's a picture by the way, sorry about the quality but its the e-bay picture rather than one of my own!

From the "fade" paint job and the graphics, I would guess your Raleigh is late '80s -early 90s. Does it have eyelets on the forkends and/or dropouts? How long are the chainstays?

I do wonder where that Stronglight crank came from....