Highwaycode and pedals question

Marz said:

I was scanning through another post and some one linked to the highway
code web site. So I thought, ok, I'll do a bit of reading and see
what's changed.

My question isn't about something new, it's about the statement between
the brackets in the quote below...

46: At night your cycle MUST have front and rear lights lit. It MUST
also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors,
if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke
reflectors will also help you to be seen.

I'm not questioning the requirement for lights or red reflectors, just
the piece that talks about amber pedal reflectors. I've not bought a
bike in years that has these, or even seen a set of pedals that have
them fitted as I ride clipless mtb pedals. Does anyone have such pedals
on their bike? Even though the amber piece is between the brackets is
it assumed to part of the over all 'MUST' statement?

Laters,

Marz

It is indeed. My SPDs came with a clip-on plastic piece which has the
amber reflectors.

druidh

druidh said:

It is indeed. My SPDs came with a clip-on plastic piece which has the
amber reflectors.

druidh

But what if no insert exists for the pedals you use, e.g. Speedplay
Frogs or one sided roadie pedals?

And what about recumbent riders? Nobody would be able to see reflectors
on those pedals.

Laters,

Marz

Marz said:

46: At night your cycle MUST have front and rear lights lit. It MUST
also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors,
if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke
reflectors will also help you to be seen.

I'm not questioning the requirement for lights or red reflectors, just
the piece that talks about amber pedal reflectors. I've not bought a
bike in years that has these, or even seen a set of pedals that have
them fitted as I ride clipless mtb pedals. Does anyone have such
pedals on their bike?

I don't because the pedals I like can't take them.

The last complete bike I bought, a Dawes in 1999, came with SPD-type
single-sided pedals with rubbishy clip-on reflectors.

Quoted message said:

Even though the amber piece is between the
brackets is it assumed to part of the over all 'MUST' statement?

Yes, you are breaking the law by riding on the road at night without BS
pedal reflectors. If not bothered about that law, there are plenty of
other ways of creating a good effect with reflective stickers, tape or
bands on cranks, shoes and legs, and some pedals.

~PB

Marz said:

But what if no insert exists for the pedals you use, e.g. Speedplay
Frogs or one sided roadie pedals?

Well, change the pedals or break the law... or don't ride at night. The
choice is yours :-)

Quoted message said:

And what about recumbent riders? Nobody would be able to see
reflectors on those pedals.

Still legal, though. Depends what you care about: the law or practicality
and safety?

~PB

Marz said:

I'm not questioning the requirement for lights or red reflectors, just the
piece that talks about amber pedal reflectors. I've not bought a bike in
years that has these, or even seen a set of pedals that have them fitted
as I ride clipless mtb pedals.

A new bike will be delivered with pedal reflectors.
Bikes with clipless SPD pedals come with plastic adapters which have
reflectors on them.

I put reflective tape on the cranks, which I think is effective.

in message <[email hidden]>, Marz

(') said:

druidh said:

It is indeed. My SPDs came with a clip-on plastic piece which has the
amber reflectors.

But what if no insert exists for the pedals you use, e.g. Speedplay
Frogs or one sided roadie pedals?

Campagnolo one sided roadie pedals do have legal reflectors, although
only as an optional extra. For the rest, you may not legally use such
bikes on the road at night.

Quoted message said:

And what about recumbent riders? Nobody would be able to see reflectors
on those pedals.

You can't legally ride a recumbent on the road at night.

Actually, pedal reflectors /are/ a good thing, since the visual pattern
they make is exceedingly diagnostic of 'bike'. And it /would/ be nice if
Look (etc) were to produce pedals with at least rear reflectors (which
would not be hard for them to do). But the law - at least as far as
recumbents are concerned - is an ass.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be
twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan
chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.

in message <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs

(') said:

Marz said:

But what if no insert exists for the pedals you use, e.g. Speedplay
Frogs or one sided roadie pedals?

Well, change the pedals or break the law... or don't ride at night.
The choice is yours :-)

Quoted message said:

And what about recumbent riders? Nobody would be able to see
reflectors on those pedals.

Still legal, though. Depends what you care about: the law or
practicality and safety?

No, because the law specifies that the pedal reflectors must be fitted

"Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is plainly
visible to the front and the reflector on the trailing edge of each
pedal is plainly visible to the rear"

which is clearly impossible on most recumbents; see

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_25.htm#nsch20>

Thus, recumbents may not _legally_ be used at night.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care
in the community for you. -- Ben Evans

Simon Brooke said:

Thus, recumbents may not _legally_ be used at night.

Unless manufactured before 1985 (is it 1985? I thought the RTRR
specified 1990, or is that just the requirement for BS lights, rather
than any light).

...d

John Hearns said:

Marz said:

I'm not questioning the requirement for lights or red reflectors,
just the piece that talks about amber pedal reflectors. I've not
bought a bike in years that has these, or even seen a set of pedals
that have them fitted as I ride clipless mtb pedals.

A new bike will be delivered with pedal reflectors.

If, that is, it is delivered with pedals...

Thinking about this, none of my stable may legally be ridden at night which,
I think, demonstrates that in this case the /La/ is a donkey.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
The best way to confuse a Daily Mail reader is to tell it that
paedophiles form the staple diet of asylum seekers.

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thinking about this, none of my stable may legally be ridden at night
which, I think, demonstrates that in this case the /La/ is a donkey.

Do you ever ride any of them at night?

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thinking about this, none of my stable may legally be ridden at night
which, I think, demonstrates that in this case the /La/ is a donkey.

Do you ever ride any of them at night?

Frequently and with vigour. Except Cosimo, who is ill-equipped for
Nocturnal Tomfoolery.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Every establishment needs an opposition.

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thinking about this, none of my stable may legally be ridden at night
which, I think, demonstrates that in this case the /La/ is a donkey.

Do you ever ride any of them at night?

Frequently and with vigour. Except Cosimo, who is ill-equipped for
Nocturnal Tomfoolery.

You obviously feel comfortable taking responsibility for you own safety
decisions. Would you be happy for all regulations to do with vehicle
construction to be disregarded?

--
Matt B

Simon Brooke said:

Thus, recumbents may not _legally_ be used at night.

Surely this is a situation where the law is behind the times. Other
laws were changed to adapt to the use of LEDs so is it likely this law
will be changed to reflect new road users and technology?

Has any one every been stopped for riding a recumbent at night? I used
to ride a tandem trike recumbent (side by side) every now and then, the
thing was a wide as a Mini with dual head and rear lights. At night
from a distance the thing looked like a small car and as such I seemed
to get more respect on the road. Right up until the drivers got close
enough to see what I really was and then I'd get, "Get off the f*&(ing
road."

Laters,

Marz

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Frequently and with vigour. Except Cosimo, who is ill-equipped for
Nocturnal Tomfoolery.

You obviously feel comfortable taking responsibility for you own safety
decisions. Would you be happy for all regulations to do with vehicle
construction to be disregarded?

If it's just his own safety we're talking about here, then he and only
he should take responsibility for it (e.g., helmets, seatbelts).
However, regulations relating to how the vehicle may effects the safety
of third parties are another matter.

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Thinking about this, none of my stable may legally be ridden at
> night which, I think, demonstrates that in this case the /La/ is a
> donkey.

Do you ever ride any of them at night?

Frequently and with vigour. Except Cosimo, who is ill-equipped for
Nocturnal Tomfoolery.

You obviously feel comfortable taking responsibility for you own
safety decisions. Would you be happy for all regulations to do with
vehicle construction to be disregarded?

The chances of someone else being killed because any of my four multiply-lit
and reflectorised machines doesn't have pedal reflectors are this:
vanishingly small. Especially given that on the two most frequently out
after dark, even were pedal reflectors fitted according to the letter of the
law, they would not be visible except to passengers on the top decks of
buses, earthworms and the crew of the black helicopters. There is a wealth
of difference between not fitting an entirely useless reflector and, say,
not being arsed to have working brakes or legal tyres.

So, no.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Never tie your shoelaces in a revolving door.

Simon Brooke said:

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_25.htm#nsch20>

3. Angles of visibility:
Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is
plainly visible to the front
and the reflector on the trailing edge of each pedal is plainly
visible to the rear

The front & rear of what? The bike or the pedal or the reflector?

sothach said:

Simon Brooke said:

<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_25.htm#nsch20>

3. Angles of visibility:
Such that the reflector on the leading edge of each pedal is
plainly visible to the front
and the reflector on the trailing edge of each pedal is plainly
visible to the rear

The front & rear of what? The bike or the pedal or the reflector?

Context would suggest the vehicle. This means that panniers which
obscure the pedals are illegal, as would be a number of other things.

Solution: get a pre1985 bit on your bike. How is 'manufactured before
1985' interpreted anyway?

...d

"sothach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Frequently and with vigour. Except Cosimo, who is ill-equipped for
Nocturnal Tomfoolery.

You obviously feel comfortable taking responsibility for you own safety
decisions. Would you be happy for all regulations to do with vehicle
construction to be disregarded?

If it's just his own safety we're talking about here, then he and only
he should take responsibility for it

Fair enough.

Quoted message said:

(e.g., helmets, seatbelts).

Many (especially here) would say that both of those cause more danger to
others.

Quoted message said:

However, regulations relating to how the vehicle may effects the safety
of third parties are another matter.

Yes. The problem is deciding which fall only into that category. IMHO
reflectors and helmets do.

--
Matt B

Simon Brooke said:

Campagnolo one sided roadie pedals do have legal reflectors, although
only as an optional extra. For the rest, you may not legally use such
bikes on the road at night.

If you do go down the Campagnolo route then I suggest you get some cable
ties and a drill and modify the reflectors to prevent them popping out.

The details are here:

<URL:http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/chrisg?entry=reflecting_with_cable_ties>

After 3000 commuting miles the left hand (foot) reflector holder broke
so I am now on my second set. So at some level you should consider them
as consumables.

Quoted message said:

Actually, pedal reflectors /are/ a good thing, since the visual pattern
they make is exceedingly diagnostic of 'bike'. And it /would/ be nice if
Look (etc) were to produce pedals with at least rear reflectors (which
would not be hard for them to do). But the law - at least as far as
recumbents are concerned - is an ass.

Here here.

--chris