day before race day

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it best to just take the day off ( the day before race day), or do a "regular" ride, or just do
a light spin?

any other hints for a few days before a race?

1) For a shorter, harder race that is important to you: 2 days out, go pretty easy, then the day
before do just enough intensity to feel good. (Sorry to be so subjective, but my belief is that
it is important to be subjective, i.e., how *you* feel on a given day is important). If you're
sufficiently fit and not suffering under a heavy training load, the latter might include up to 30
min at race pace.

2) For a longer race in which endurance as much as speed will be important: same pattern, but go
even easier. That might mean taking the day off two days out, then just doing an easy spin with a
few jumps the day before.

3) For a race that isn't particularly important: train as usual 2 days out (thus not interfering
with/disrupting your training program), go easy the day before.

One of the things I've learned from training with a powermeter is important pattern #1 is in
assuring that all of your "top end" is available on race day. For longer races where this is far
less critical, however, I'll use pattern #2 to be certain that glycogen stores are maximized.

I think it is very hard to combine regular racing with an eye on results with proper training - so
IMO it is better to really train when you're training, and then really race when you're racing.

Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

1) For a shorter, harder race that is important to you: 2 days out, go pretty easy, then the day
before do just enough intensity to feel good. (Sorry to be so subjective, but my belief is that
it is important to be subjective, i.e., how *you* feel on a given day is important). If you're
sufficiently fit and not suffering under a heavy training load, the latter might include up to
30 min at race pace.

2) For a longer race in which endurance as much as speed will be important: same pattern, but go
even easier. That might mean taking the day off two days out, then just doing an easy spin with
a few jumps the day before.

3) For a race that isn't particularly important: train as usual 2 days out (thus not interfering
with/disrupting your training program), go easy the day before.

What is the purpose of this routine? How will it help you race better on race day?

"Jbenkert111" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) For a shorter, harder race that is important to you: 2 days out, go pretty easy, then the day
before do just enough intensity to feel good. (Sorry to be so subjective, but my belief is
that it is important to be subjective, i.e., how *you* feel on a given day is important). If
you're sufficiently fit and not suffering under a heavy training load, the

latter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

might include up to 30 min at race pace.

2) For a longer race in which endurance as much as speed will be

important:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

same pattern, but go even easier. That might mean taking the day off two days out, then just
doing an easy spin with a few jumps the day before.

3) For a race that isn't particularly important: train as usual 2 days

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(thus not interfering with/disrupting your training program), go easy the day before.

What is the purpose of this routine? How will it help you race better on

race

Quoted message said:

day?

Achieving the best performance requires having all physiological systems operating at their optimum.
Train too hard too close to an event, and residual fatigue and/or inadequate glycogen stores may
limit your performance. Rest too much, and you'll start to lose those physiological adaptations to
training that have a very short half-life (e.g., plasma volume expansion, neuromuscular
recruitment). By resting two days out, then doing a few "leg openers" the day before, you seem to be
able to achieve the best of both worlds. What I propose above reflects an attempt to optimize this
approach depending upon the demands of an event as well as overall season-long goals (pattern #3).

Note that I assumed that because of his question, the OP was a relative newcomer to competitive
cycling, and thus probably maintains a moderate training load (volume, intensity). The absolute
quantity and perhaps quality of training would be adjusted up or down depending on a given
individual's background (e.g., if you're training 25 hours/week, then your easy day 2 days out would
be longer than for somebody who is only training 8 hours/week), ability to recover, etc. However,
the overall pattern would remain the same.

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

Andy Coggan

Its always worked better for me. I've tried taking the day before off, but almost always seem
to have dead legs the next day. Taking a day off the day before the day before works a lot
better for me.

Then again, I am a Masters Fattie...

Mike

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

Achieving the best performance requires having all physiological systems operating at their
optimum. Train too hard too close to an event, and residual fatigue and/or inadequate glycogen
stores may limit your performance. Rest too much, and you'll start to lose those physiological
adaptations to training that have a very short half-life (e.g., plasma volume expansion,
neuromuscular recruitment). By resting two days out, then doing a few "leg openers" the day
before, you seem to be able to achieve the best of both worlds. What I propose above reflects an
attempt to optimize this approach depending upon the demands of an event as well as overall
season-long goals (pattern #3).

Note that I assumed that because of his question, the OP was a relative newcomer to competitive
cycling, and thus probably maintains a moderate training load (volume, intensity). The absolute
quantity and perhaps quality of training would be adjusted up or down depending on a given
individual's background (e.g., if you're training 25 hours/week, then your easy day 2 days out
would be longer than for somebody who is only training 8 hours/week), ability to recover, etc.
However, the overall pattern would remain the same.

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

I used to take a rest day two days out, then day before do about an hour including 5 minutes or so
at my LT and then a hard 15 second sprint.

On the advice of my coach I've changed it up a bit this year and the new scheme works better for
me, but maybe not someone else. It's patterned after what he's used for many pro roadies who have
good recovery-something a relatively new racer may not have. I think the ability to recover well is
key because the closer to your race that you can go hard (and still recover) the better you'll go
in the race.

5 days before a race I care about I'll do my usual sprint workout but on the flat instead of hill,
and with about 20-33% fewer sprints. 4 days before it's LT intervals with maybe one fewer interval
or a little less hills. 3 days before is off. 2 days before is one medium endurance interval, then
one LT interval, and then 3-4 hard, but short (10 second) sprints and a total of 1.5 hours. (The
total effort of this ride is only about 40% of what I'd normally do in a non-racing week so you can
adjust your own efforts accordingly.) This gets my systems opened up and awakens the muscles for
some hard efforts without being tiring, and it's far enough before the race to allow some more
recovery time. Day before is 1-2 medium endurance intervals and then a few minutes near LT, and
maybe one short sprint. Some high intensity with very little fatigue.

I agree that training and racing get in the way of each other. I tend to plan so that my recovery
weeks (every 3-5 weeks) occur during the week before a race I care about.

-WG

Always the scientist, Andy; just like my buddy Tim in grad school (he had a lot of well founded
theories). However, I can't see anything inappropriate with your ideas here. I do think it is
something we all have to learn from and it seems to change over time. I remember the days of 15
minute warm-ups and top 10's. Now if its anything less than 45 minutes I'm suffering for the
first hour.

One interesting thing I've noted, is that I've had some of my best races the day after a hard race.
However, I've never had a good race where I've trained hard the day before. Personally, I never feel
good after taking a day off anywhere near a major race. Unless I'm totally knacked, 30 minutes of
spinning is better than a complete day off. Off course there's nothing scientific here, just
preference.

My advice, start with Andy's approach and go from there.

Chris Harnish

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Always the scientist, Andy; just like my buddy Tim in grad school (he had a lot of well founded
theories).

I find that an odd comment, considering that I based my comments primarily on my ~30 years of racing
experience at up to the cat. 1 level, not on any real science.

Quoted message said:

However, I can't see anything inappropriate with your ideas here. I do think it is something we
all have to learn from and it seems to change over time. I remember the days of 15 minute warm-ups
and top 10's. Now if its anything less than 45 minutes I'm suffering for the first hour.

One interesting thing I've noted, is that I've had some of my best races the day after a hard
race. However, I've never had a good race where I've trained hard the day before.

I've had the former experience many times, esp. when I've been training hard but not racing much,
then enter a multi-day criterium series. The scientist in me speculates that this is partially due
to rapid adaptations in motor unit recruitment, akin to what happens when you take up weight
training. The cyclist in me, OTOH, doesn't really care why it works - it just does, as many people
recognize.

Contrary to your experience, however, I have had good races where I've trained hard - sometimes
pretty hard - the day before (e.g., Texas district RR, 1984). It is, though, easy to overdo it,
which is why I emphasized that it is important to develop a good "feel" for how much is enough, and
not too much.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I never feel good after taking a day off anywhere near a major race. Unless I'm
totally knacked, 30 minutes of spinning is better than a complete day off. Off course
there's nothing scientific here, just preference. My advice, start with Andy's approach and
go from there.

I'm glad you approve.

Andy Coggan

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Achieving the best performance requires having all physiological systems operating at their
optimum. Train too hard too close to an event, and residual fatigue and/or inadequate glycogen
stores may limit your performance. Rest too much, and you'll start to lose those physiological
adaptations to training that have a very short half-life (e.g., plasma volume expansion,
neuromuscular recruitment). By resting two days out, then doing a few "leg openers" the day
before, you seem to be able to achieve the best of both worlds. What I propose above reflects an
attempt to optimize this approach depending upon the demands of an event as well as overall
season-long goals (pattern #3).

Note that I assumed that because of his question, the OP was a relative newcomer to competitive
cycling, and thus probably maintains a moderate training load (volume, intensity). The absolute
quantity and perhaps quality of training would be adjusted up or down depending on a given
individual's background (e.g., if you're training 25 hours/week, then your easy day 2 days out
would be longer than for somebody who is only training 8 hours/week), ability to recover, etc.
However, the overall pattern would remain the same.

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

Nope -- just one of your more superb posts Andy!!

Your stuff is more understandable than trying to grok some of Warren's stuff.

Keepin' it real, thanks, Ken.

Thanks for all the inputs.... I'm going to try Andy's approach. Yes I am new to racing.. this being
my first year.. but it is X/C mountain biking.

I've tried doing my regular training the day before a race.. and sometimes it is OK and some times
it is not OK ( meaning i can't go as fast as i think i should be able to on race day). Last race I
didn't ride the day before.. it made me anxious, but i did well in the race.

I'lll just spin the legs out on Saturday, get the HR up.. and stay off the trails where the risk of
injury increases. Sunday's race will be the longest of the season... a minimum of 3 hours.

charlie Member Help Community Leader

"K. J. Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

(snip)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

Nope -- just one of your more superb posts Andy!!

I thought you said that you found my posts boring?

BTW, somebody at USA Cycling told me recently that Lance Armstrong occasionally posts here as Ken
Papai - so how do I know that you are really you?

Andy Coggan

In article said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Achieving the best performance requires having all physiological systems operating at their
optimum. Train too hard too close to an event, and residual fatigue and/or inadequate glycogen
stores may limit your performance. Rest too much, and you'll start to lose those physiological
adaptations to training that have a very short half-life (e.g., plasma volume expansion,
neuromuscular recruitment). By resting two days out, then doing a few "leg openers" the day
before, you seem to be able to achieve the best of both worlds. What I propose above reflects an
attempt to optimize this approach depending upon the demands of an event as well as overall
season-long goals (pattern #3).

Note that I assumed that because of his question, the OP was a relative newcomer to competitive
cycling, and thus probably maintains a moderate training load (volume, intensity). The absolute
quantity and perhaps quality of training would be adjusted up or down depending on a given
individual's background (e.g., if you're training 25 hours/week, then your easy day 2 days out
would be longer than for somebody who is only training 8 hours/week), ability to recover, etc.
However, the overall pattern would remain the same.

Anybody who feels that the proposed approaches are inappropriate?

Nope -- just one of your more superb posts Andy!!

Your stuff is more understandable than trying to grok some of Warren's stuff.

So sorry. Here's the simple version. Rest one day before the race makes me feel sharp for
sprints and accelerations. Rest two days before makes me feel more relaxed and better prepared
for longer efforts.

-W

Any thoughts to why some days your legs are complete [censored]? I mean, I've shown up to races fully
rested and rode like garbage, then the next day win. I don't think any study has ever looked at the
question of the "bad legs" day. Pretty difficult to do, but nonetheless interesting.

Chris