Big in Japan

Sounds as if the carbs come at the end of the meal, like dessert!

Alan wrote:
:::: Yes there are noodles and rice. I haven't been offered noodles yet
:: although I'm sure I will be. The two meals where rice has been on
:: offer, it's been right at the end of the meal, which essentially
:: meant I didn't want it anyway because I was full of tuna, fillet
:: steak, foie gras (apologies in advance to any animal rights
:: activists) and lobster (sliced in half and cooked while still alive
:: - apology repeated) coated in a butter sauce made from the good bits
:: of the lobster's innards. Plus some very delicately fried vegetables
:: and some great salad, and fried slivers of garlic as an appetiser.
:: Sensational food.

"Alan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in Tokyo at the moment, travelling on business. Fascinating trip,
fascinating city - I'm really enjoying it here. Have another week here
and in Kyoto before flying back to London.

I'm enjoying the food. OK, I'm entertaining clients (and potential
clients) so I'm tending to eat in fairly upmarket places. But from the
low-carber's point of view the diet here seems quite good. Lots of
fresh meat, very fresh fish (both often served raw) and leafy
vegetables.

Yes there are noodles and rice. I haven't been offered noodles yet
although I'm sure I will be. The two meals where rice has been on
offer, it's been right at the end of the meal, which essentially meant
I didn't want it anyway because I was full of tuna, fillet steak, foie
gras (apologies in advance to any animal rights activists) and lobster
(sliced in half and cooked while still alive - apology repeated) coated
in a butter sauce made from the good bits of the lobster's innards.
Plus some very delicately fried vegetables and some great salad, and
fried slivers of garlic as an appetiser. Sensational food.

How high is the Japanese diet in carbohydrates compared to a western
diet? Putting aside my comments about rice and noodles, they really
don't seem to go for the [censored] in our diets - sweets, cakes, doughnuts,
milkshakes, etc. - I've walked the streets all day today and seen
almost nothing like that.

And then I observe in passing that there are very few obese people here
and that they have the longest life expectancy of any country, in spite
of a high proportion (by British standards at least) of them smoking
and, I understand, medical care which isn't quite up to the best seen
in the Western world (I was quite surprised by this, but several people
have made the comment including a friend I met tonight who has lived in
Tokyo for 11 years).

The only criticism I might make is that generally the food is quite
salty. But perhaps that's just me - I almost never put salt onto my
food so I'm just not accustomed to it. But apart from that my stomach
is having a great time!

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein for
energy. It shoudln't be surprising that most societies have an ample supply
of carbs, it's what kept us out of starvation for thousands and thousands of
years.

The problem is that obesity has been a problem for 20 years and certainly
not in Japan. This is an entirely new and unique situation.

The big "Japanese lie" is similiar to the "mediterranean diet lie", the
Japanese consume more pork and fish per capita than the US.

Joe the Aroma said:

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein for
energy.

Completely false. Thin people need calories, and those calories can
come from fat or protein just as effectively as from carbs.

Quoted message said:

It shoudln't be surprising that most societies have an ample supply
of carbs,

Because carbs are cheap.

Quoted message said:

it's what kept us out of starvation for thousands and thousands of
years.

Grain agriculture allowed enough food to be produced for populations
to grow. That part is true. What is not true is viewing grain as
either
necessary or beneficial as food to humans.

Quoted message said:

The problem is that obesity has been a problem for 20 years and certainly
not in Japan. This is an entirely new and unique situation.

Actually it is neither new nor unique. Check out studies of Egyptian
mummies. Many suffered obesity related illnesses from a diet of
mostly grain.

Quoted message said:

The big "Japanese lie" is similiar to the "mediterranean diet lie", the
Japanese consume more pork and fish per capita than the US.

Joe the Aroma wrote:
:: Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle
:: protein for energy.

🙂

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug Freyburger said:

Joe the Aroma said:

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein for
energy.

Completely false. Thin people need calories, and those calories can
come from fat or protein just as effectively as from carbs.

Quoted message said:

It shoudln't be surprising that most societies have an ample supply
of carbs,

Because carbs are cheap.

Quoted message said:

it's what kept us out of starvation for thousands and thousands of
years.

Grain agriculture allowed enough food to be produced for populations
to grow. That part is true. What is not true is viewing grain as
either
necessary or beneficial as food to humans.

Quoted message said:

The problem is that obesity has been a problem for 20 years and certainly
not in Japan. This is an entirely new and unique situation.

Actually it is neither new nor unique. Check out studies of Egyptian
mummies. Many suffered obesity related illnesses from a diet of
mostly grain.

Quoted message said:

The big "Japanese lie" is similiar to the "mediterranean diet lie", the
Japanese consume more pork and fish per capita than the US.

There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate...
There are, however, essential fatty acids and amino acids.

Those come from fat and protein.

Not carbs.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Joe the Aroma wrote:
:: Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle
:: protein for energy.

🙂

<lol> Yeah, I missed that initially...
He DID contradict himself!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe the Aroma said:

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein
for
energy.

Completely false. Thin people need calories, and those calories can
come from fat or protein just as effectively as from

carbs.

But wouldn't you say, based on the experiences of succesfull LC dieters,
that it's very difficult to consume requisate calories without
carbohydrates?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It shoudln't be surprising that most societies have an ample supply
of carbs,

Because carbs are cheap.

They are a cheap source of energy, yes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's what kept us out of starvation for thousands and thousands of
years.

Grain agriculture allowed enough food to be produced for populations
to grow. That part is true. What is not true is viewing grain as
either
necessary or beneficial as food to humans.

I would agree with that. Beyondveg.com had some interesting articles on the
prevalence of a few previously localized grains becoming the staple food for
humans and the many problem it has caused over the years.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The problem is that obesity has been a problem for 20 years and certainly
not in Japan. This is an entirely new and unique situation.

Actually it is neither new nor unique. Check out studies of Egyptian
mummies. Many suffered obesity related illnesses from a diet of
mostly grain.

Obesity has always been a "problem" for the rich and well-to-do of
societies. Look at the nobility and kings of Europe throughout the ages and
how fat they got.

Obesity is now more prevalent than hunger in Western societies and is
causing more health problems. That is unprecendented from what I've read.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The big "Japanese lie" is similiar to the "mediterranean diet lie", the
Japanese consume more pork and fish per capita than the US.

I shoulda' clarified, I meant hte "vegetarian Japanese" was a big lie.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:08:15 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
alt.support.diet.low-carb:

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe the Aroma said:

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein
for
energy.

Completely false. Thin people need calories, and those calories can
come from fat or protein just as effectively as from carbs.

But wouldn't you say, based on the experiences of succesfull LC dieters,
that it's very difficult to consume requisate calories without
carbohydrates?

Not at all. You boost the protein to a little bit above the level where
the High-Carb Crazies start to froth, and make up the remaining
difference with fat (which, of course, irritates the Low-Fat Faddists).
A true win-win situation.

Thing is, when low-carbing you don't really WANT to...

Which is the whole point of the exercise.

--
6/2/2003 181/165/here

Was I ever glad to see the Low-Fat craze go away!

Joe the Aroma said:

Doug Freyburger said:

Joe the Aroma wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thin people need carbs. Without carbs, they start using muscle protein
for energy.

Quoted message said:

Completely false. Thin people need calories, and those calories can
come from fat or protein just as effectively as from carbs.

But wouldn't you say, based on the experiences of succesfull LC dieters,
that it's very difficult to consume requisate calories without
carbohydrates?

Not at all. Based on the experiences of LC dieters it's so trivial to
get enough calories from fat and protein the some new folks need to
be pressured to eat any veggies at all.

In another message Om just mentioned that there are no essential
carbs. Correct, the body produces all the carbs it needs so you
can eat zero dietary carbs without ill effects if you know what
you're doing. I offer a caveat on that: Carbs may be essential to
life but it sure looks like some amount of carbs are essential to
loss. If less-is-better were true, all low carb plans would suggest
going to zero yet no plans do that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The problem is that obesity has been a problem for 20 years and certainly
not in Japan. This is an entirely new and unique situation.

Quoted message said:

Actually it is neither new nor unique. Check out studies of Egyptian
mummies. Many suffered obesity related illnesses from a diet of
mostly grain.

Obesity has always been a "problem" for the rich and well-to-do of
societies. Look at the nobility and kings of Europe throughout the ages and
how fat they got.

Obesity is now more prevalent than hunger in Western societies and is
causing more health problems. That is unprecendented from what I've read.

Okay. In the US the poor tend to be obese. More and more this is
starting to be true elsewhere as well. Before poverity was a prime
cause of thinness. What this means to me is that "poverty" means a
very-very different thing in the US than it has meant in most nations
throughout history. So I get the impression I disagree with you more
on what counts as poverty and wealth than on what causes obesity.

[censored] Yuknavech wrote:
:: Not at all. You boost the protein to a little bit above the level
:: where the High-Carb Crazies start to froth, and make up the remaining

🙂

I like that...

Carbs are never essential, for life or for loss.

It seems that you're just trying to artificially prop up Atkins' bogus CCLL.

--
You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In another message Om just mentioned that there are no essential
carbs. Correct, the body produces all the carbs it needs so you
can eat zero dietary carbs without ill effects if you know what
you're doing. I offer a caveat on that: Carbs may be essential to
life but it sure looks like some amount of carbs are essential to
loss. If less-is-better were true, all low carb plans would suggest
going to zero yet no plans do that.