Geneticly fast

On 5 Nov 2005 23:21:30 -0800, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly! Though it has been
going on with a select few for a couple of year now, many people have
ignored it or said there was no way it was possible; finally maybe
people will start to pay more attention to it, and understand things a
little better... Not sure you can really call it "doping" though, it's
more of a loop-hole.

Christ, I'm glad that came up after my time. I had enough trouble in
my 20s without women avoiding slow bicycle racers because their kids
would never win bike races. OK, maybe there were other issues...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.
Then came out BALCO (illicit laboratory) and cover stories on both
Scientific American and Discover magazine on the possibilities and
really, the inevitability of gene doping.

Sport as we know it is going to be over soon. How to test for a genetic
alteration?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.
Then came out BALCO (illicit laboratory) and cover stories on both
Scientific American and Discover magazine on the possibilities and
really, the inevitability of gene doping.

Sport as we know it is going to be over soon. How to test for a genetic
alteration?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Because as part of the new anti-terror initiative, everyone's genetic
characteristics will be registered from the moment they are conceived.
Changes to that baseline will be evidence of gene doping, drug use, sexual
deviancy, liberalism, or an aversion to reality TV programming (which is
being developed for mind control purposes after it was found that Baywatch
only worked for mind control after being dubbed into a foreign language and
broadcast in Europe), which will all be capital offenses.

I think it is highly significant that EPO is the reverse of OPE, the
acronymic initial letters of the pass code for recalling the bomber wing
from Burpleson AFB set by Gen. Jack D. Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove". It's
either all connected or the chemtrails are laying down some wicked
psychotropic stuff today.

--
Bill Asher

DepartFictif said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

Curtis L. Russell said:

Christ, I'm glad that came up after my time. I had enough trouble in
my 20s without women avoiding slow bicycle racers because their kids
would never win bike races. OK, maybe there were other issues...

You mean they didn't do nose jobs in your time either ?

Donald Munro said:

DepartFictif said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

Curtis L. Russell said:

Christ, I'm glad that came up after my time. I had enough trouble in
my 20s without women avoiding slow bicycle racers because their kids
would never win bike races. OK, maybe there were other issues...

You mean they didn't do nose jobs in your time either ?

Hey, it was only broken a couple of times, maybe three, at that point.
It still was mostly pointed in the same direction as original.

It got flatter and started changing direction a lot during the later
20s...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

William Asher said:

Because as part of the new anti-terror initiative, everyone's genetic
characteristics will be registered from the moment they are conceived.
Changes to that baseline will be evidence of gene doping,

Baseline schmaseline. With a secreted protein like EPO, only a few
cells would need to be altered to produce the protein. Even if an
athlete was genotyped beforehand, how would doing any genetic testing
show an EPO transgene if they weren't able to find the cells that were
transgenic? If they didn't test the subcutaneous fat cells in the
crack of his ass, they might only be amazed at an athlete's amazing
hematocrit.

One problem would be how to regulate the transgene. Systems for
regulating eukaryotic gene expression (in research) use certain drugs
to turn on or off expression. These don't always work. It might be
possible to transiently introduce a gene in an unstable form, where
"regulation" would come from dose.

Goddam it's fun to speculate.

Quoted message said:

drug use, sexual
deviancy, liberalism, or an aversion to reality TV programming (which is
being developed for mind control purposes after it was found that Baywatch
only worked for mind control after being dubbed into a foreign language and
broadcast in Europe), which will all be capital offenses.

I think it is highly significant that EPO is the reverse of OPE, the
acronymic initial letters of the pass code for recalling the bomber wing
from Burpleson AFB set by Gen. Jack D. Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove". It's
either all connected or the chemtrails are laying down some wicked
psychotropic stuff today.

--
Bill Asher

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.
Then came out BALCO (illicit laboratory) and cover stories on both
Scientific American and Discover magazine on the possibilities and
really, the inevitability of gene doping.

Sport as we know it is going to be over soon. How to test for a genetic
alteration?

Not to support Kyle but you really are one dumbass aren't you? I suggest
Kyle is a hell of a lot more likely to know something about it than
Scientific American and their subjective "cover stories".

"gym.gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

William Asher said:

Because as part of the new anti-terror initiative, everyone's genetic
characteristics will be registered from the moment they are conceived.
Changes to that baseline will be evidence of gene doping,

Baseline schmaseline. With a secreted protein like EPO, only a few
cells would need to be altered to produce the protein. Even if an
athlete was genotyped beforehand, how would doing any genetic testing
show an EPO transgene if they weren't able to find the cells that were
transgenic? If they didn't test the subcutaneous fat cells in the
crack of his ass, they might only be amazed at an athlete's amazing
hematocrit.

One problem would be how to regulate the transgene. Systems for
regulating eukaryotic gene expression (in research) use certain drugs
to turn on or off expression. These don't always work. It might be
possible to transiently introduce a gene in an unstable form, where
"regulation" would come from dose.

Goddam it's fun to speculate.

And as we all know, the only thing that's true is speculation. Liberals
prefer conjecture to truth anyway.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.
Then came out BALCO (illicit laboratory) and cover stories on both
Scientific American and Discover magazine on the possibilities and
really, the inevitability of gene doping.

Sport as we know it is going to be over soon. How to test for a genetic
alteration?

Dumbass,

Legate doesn't seem to be around to defend himself. My
recollection is that he said it wouldn't be practical soon, not
that it couldn't be done.

The article cited is basically a press release. I don't see
anything new, beyond the allegation that athletes have been
contacting gene researchers, which is probably true, doesn't
surprise me, and tells you more about the athletes' "try
anything" mentality than whether genetic therapy as doping
is practical yet.

[censored] Pound and WADA, playing the role of Cassandra, will say
anything to convince people of the Oncoming Doping Menace
Storm!!! It's good for the budget. Of course, the original
Cassandra, as a prophet, was right. But press releases from
[censored] Pound lack a certain credibility.

I also think gene therapy doping will happen, and quite possibly
by 2012, but I think it will either be the adoption of an otherwise
legitimate medical therapy (as was the case for EPO), or it will
be under cover, untested medically, and very dangerous. Even
EPO was quite dangerous when first abused, before people
knew to cut it with orange juice.

Also, there will be a large market for quacks selling "gene doping"
to athletes who wouldn't know cheetah genes from Gene Tierney,
but are looking for The [censored] That Will Kill Them. You know, if you
and I get in on a piece of the action early, we could make a killing.
If we just sold them placebos and sugar-water, we wouldn't even
kill the customers. It would be highly ethical, in that respect - we'd
protect the Masters Fatties from their own impulses.
Whaddaya think, is that a business model or what?

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.
Then came out BALCO (illicit laboratory) and cover stories on both
Scientific American and Discover magazine on the possibilities and
really, the inevitability of gene doping.

Sport as we know it is going to be over soon. How to test for a genetic
alteration?

Dumbass,

Legate doesn't seem to be around to defend himself. My
recollection is that he said it wouldn't be practical soon, not
that it couldn't be done.

The article cited is basically a press release. I don't see
anything new, beyond the allegation that athletes have been
contacting gene researchers, which is probably true, doesn't
surprise me, and tells you more about the athletes' "try
anything" mentality than whether genetic therapy as doping
is practical yet.

<snip>

Dumbass -

It's practical all right. Do a Google.

Legate and Lark's position was that no self-respecting scientist would
use their knowledge for that type of work. We had a argument about it
for a couple of days, then the BALCO scandal broke. LOL!

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

DepartFictif said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/nov05/nov06news

About time someone came up with this publicly!

Dumbass -

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it couldn't be done soon. And I
stand by that. These people are raising alarm bells too soon, but better
too soon than too late.

If the creators of gene targeting vectors are agreeable, it would be
easy to detect gene doping. The insertion of a non-naturally occurring
DNA sequence (a fragment of an antibiotic resistance gene or a piece of
vector backbone) along with the doped gene would provide a convenient
priming site for a PCR-based test.

Kyle Legate said:

Quoted message said:

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it couldn't be done soon. And I
stand by that. These people are raising alarm bells too soon, but better
too soon than too late.

Dumbass -

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002548919_boost09.html

<snip>

Athletes have changed everything else in order to enhance performance.
So it follows that they will eventually change their genes, choosing
combinations that suit their sports, making muscles more like outfits
and sports more like the science channel. "It has all the potential to
make steroids innocuous," says Mike Barnes, director of education for
the National Strength and Conditioning Association. "Maybe we'll have
this conversation in 10 years, and we won't even mention steroids."

A handful of the 25 experts polled for this series say they believe
someone in the athletic world has already tried gene-doping techniques.

All 25 say someone in sports eventually will.

Some say gene therapy will be abused by the 2008 Olympics. Others say
by 2012.

<snip><end>

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Kyle Legate said:

Quoted message said:

We had an argument about gene doping in rbr a few years ago.

There were a couple of dumbasses (Clovis Lark and Kyle Legate) who
claimed it couldn't be done. Jesus, what a stupid position they had.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said it couldn't be done soon. And I
stand by that. These people are raising alarm bells too soon, but better
too soon than too late.

Dumbass -

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002548919_boost09.html

Must be true then.

Steve (remember 4 out of 5 dentists? I'm the 5th dentist)

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Kurgan Gringioni said:

It's practical all right. Do a Google.

Dumbass, you miss my point. It will be practical in a few years, but
right now the methods have not yet matured. If I Google "genetic
doping" I get a lot of articles that basically that talk about the
potential of gene doping, but don't point to a concrete example of
research that is on the verge of being abused. The closest I got
is some articles on PubMed about the possibility of transgenic
EPO generation, but no actuality (and something that claims
it's detectable, but no abstract is available). It's kind of like the
press release about the hurricane simulation with 4 km grid
resolution. The PR for the state of the art contains a little bit
of mostly harmless exaggeration.

Quoted message said:

Legate and Lark's position was that no self-respecting scientist would
use their knowledge for that type of work. We had a argument about it
for a couple of days, then the BALCO scandal broke. LOL!

I don't recall Legate being that naive. Anyway, speaking of scientific
ethics, I really wanted you to respond to my business model for selling
gene doping placebos. We have to get in on the ground floor here, and
even with my extensive RBR experience, you still understand the
Masters Fattie market better than I.

Quoted message said:

I really wanted you to respond to my business model for selling
gene doping placebos. We have to get in on the ground floor here, and
even with my extensive RBR experience, you still understand the
Masters Fattie market better than I.

i dunno. do you really want henry as your fattie masters salesperson?
what i'm wondering is, would he be able to repress his "henry-ness" when
confronted with a gene doping 45 year old trying to find the edge for
masters nats? or would he slap them down so they end up limping back
home empty handed and deflated. (of course, this would keep them safe
and healthy too. the problem for your business model is that henry seems
willing to do this for free 🙂

heather

Kyle Legate said:

If the creators of gene targeting vectors are agreeable, it would be
easy to detect gene doping. The insertion of a non-naturally occurring
DNA sequence (a fragment of an antibiotic resistance gene or a piece of
vector backbone) along with the doped gene would provide a convenient
priming site for a PCR-based test.

But how do you get DNA from the cells expressing a gene if you don't
know where those cells are? It will be case by case. Secreted
proteins could be expressed from a subset of cells in the crack of an
athlete's ass. Are you familiar with DNA vaccines? Inject a plasmid
(with carriers) into muscle and it will make protein. Spray it into
nasal passages (with carriers) and it will make protein. Package it in
a suppository (with carriers), shove it up Tom's ass and it will make
protein. They might test Tom's urine for recombinant EPO, or test his
blood for the sequence of pCDNA3.1 but they won't test his [censored] until
they realize what's going on...and it took them 10 years to be able to
test for injected EPO. The next Dr. Ferrari will be a molecular
biologist.

All it's going to take is someone to insert the gene which loosens the
body's control of EPO generation and have several people die from that.
Then we will easily see some serious prosecutions.

You can expect that almost all of the "gene therapies" for the coming
decade or two will only be used on people with serious illnesses who
are expected to die soon anyway.

Hell, you can't put artificial hearts in anyone expected to live even
now.

Perhaps you are missing the point - generate EPO without control and
you end up like you did with EPO in the early 90's - dead athletes all
over the place.

Hey, I'm all for that. Anyone stupid enough to be willing to trade
their life for a better finish should see his life dissolving before
his very eyes.

Tom Kunich said:

Perhaps you are missing the point - generate EPO without control and
you end up like you did with EPO in the early 90's - dead athletes all
over the place.

Dumbass -

That isn't what was being discussed.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.