Good and Evil ?????

jhuskey said:

The age old question...does evil exist as a pert of the universe or is evil a manifestation of the human race?
Animals are referred to as malevolent but seldom evil.
Animals generally only do harm as a system of survival. Humans on the other hand will commit deeds that have no other goal than to inflict pain and suffering or fear.
Does evil exist as an entity as if to have self awarness and devisiveness or is evil simply an absence of good?
Does evil need exist as to balance the universe as a counterpart to good or is evil simply a matter of perspective?
If evil does exist as being a condition that is natural to the universe can it be conquered and if just a condition of the human mind can we conquer our own faults? 😕

Thoughts and input please.

I'm with the evil is a matter of perspective camp. Things that I view as evil may be viewed by others as benign or even good and vice versa. I think that as with most human endevours it often comes down to the "me". If it affects "me" in a way that I don't like then it is evil whether or not for someone else it may be good. While many people don't exist day to day in a situation of life and death the instinct for personal survival is still quite strong, so I think that it is difficult (but not impossible) to get people to make personal sacrifices for the good of others.

I think that the bigger trouble is that many many people are easily led and allow others to tell them what is good and what is evil and even worse what they should do about it. If people stopped to think for themselves more often they might see that the world is a lot less black and white than they have been led to believe.

just persued a web search on the topic of "violence and apes"
there are several prominent articles that refer to the origins of violence in the pre human model, those apes (and chimps) do have a cruel component to their behavioural characteristics, seemingly.

as for the tie in between violence and evil, do watch for this with a margin of scepticism, as this has been exploited ad infinitum as a way to demonize an enemy in order to justify violence to be perpetrated against a perceived enemy.

jhuskey said:

The age old question...does evil exist as a pert of the universe Animals generally only do harm as a system of survival.
Thoughts and input please.

Not sure if its relevant but Wm. Shakespeare said:
"Nothing is either good nor bad, thinking merely makes it so."
Guess that would confine the existence of the supposed phenomena to sentient &/or rational beings 😕

there is the eastern acceptance of the ying and yang type philosophies, that good and evil, if that is what you want to refer to these forces as, coexist simutaneously as one force. that creation and destruction are not opposing but complementary forces.

in the teaching of meditation and yoga, it is commonly heard that all of these perceptions are merely man's politics at work, and the key thing is to harmonize as much as possible, that these things need to play themselves out as a process.

question posed to guru teacher:
"what is more important, to try to change the world by being an activist in political and social affairs, or to just live one's life with the greatest degree of harmony possible?"

to this, the reply:
"you may either wear leather shoes upon your feet or place leather upon the world"

i gathered by this either was as effective (or not) as the other...

talk about not being sure of relevency or not!

davidmc said:

Not sure if its relevant but Wm. Shakespeare said:
"Nothing is either good nor bad, thinking merely makes it so."
Guess that would confine the existence of the supposed phenomena to sentient &/or rational beings 😕

you have to define evil. evil has a purpose, it is bourne out of emotion such as greed or jealousy.

i dont think a person is evil and may kill another person in the same way someone might go into a shop and buy a news paper in a matter of fact way.

to be trully evil its usually an extreme manifestation of a negative emotion or desire.

Animals dont have that drive.

i dont think it exists 'as part of the universe' except on a subconcious level...but Carl Jung believed that the 'collective unconcious' could be tapped into through meditation and he (i think) believed that the subconcious was a form of energy that we all can access. If evilness is manifest in eough people then who knows what is possible...

i am not an arty-farty psychologist, i just read that sutff in a book some years ago...no expert.

jhuskey said:

The age old question...does evil exist as a pert of the universe or is evil a manifestation of the human race?

It's an interesting question : are people intrinsically evil ? or is there some other force that makes them evil ?

Myra Hindley (moors murderer) always claimed that she was duped by her accomplice Ian Brady when the murdered six young kids.
Their crimes were terrible (they raped and killed young boys in the 1960's : and taped their victims last hours).
They both got life sentences.

My gut tells me that there is a very fine line between good behaviour and bad (evil ?) behaviour.
look at countries where civil war has taken hold.
neighbours and friends who lived along side other for years, were civil to each other, went to each others homes, start to do terrible things to each other.
What makes them do it ?

I would tend to gather from most opinions so far that evil exists in the psyche and does not exist outside in some undefined realm.
It requires a vehicle such as emotion to exist and that mankind may not have invented evil but has been on an unwary quest to perfect evil.

Evil Humans like the Devil is evil,no. You can use the term evil to describe some screwed up people but like mass murders or child rapist or whatever,more like a brain fart that keeps farting. Mental problems i belive are so much worst then the experts think but what do i know,i'm there with them in need of a mental bathing. :eek:

Having thought about it a bit more over lunch, i think that the difference between someone who is evil and some one who is good is that an act of evilness requires planning, forethought and a conciousness of what you are doing and knowledge of what the consequences are and to be confortable with that.

to kill or rape or destroy without motive (such as revenge) or remorse but fully aware of the situation and its aftermath...to me that is what evil is.

MountainPro said:

Having thought about it a bit more over lunch, i think that the difference between someone who is evil and some one who is good is that an act of evilness requires planning, forethought and a conciousness of what you are doing and knowledge of what the consequences are and to be confortable with that.

to kill or rape or destroy without motive (such as revenge) or remorse but fully aware of the situation and its aftermath...to me that is what evil is.

Would you say then that violent anger is not necessarily evil unless it has persistence?

jhuskey said:

The age old question...does evil exist as a pert of the universe or is evil a manifestation of the human race?
Animals are referred to as malevolent but seldom evil.
Animals generally only do harm as a system of survival. Humans on the other hand will commit deeds that have no other goal than to inflict pain and suffering or fear.
Does evil exist as an entity as if to have self awarness and devisiveness or is evil simply an absence of good?
Does evil need exist as to balance the universe as a counterpart to good or is evil simply a matter of perspective?
If evil does exist as being a condition that is natural to the universe can it be conquered and if just a condition of the human mind can we conquer our own faults? 😕

Thoughts and input please.

I had a dog once that was definately evil, so I took him down the field hit him on the head with a spade and buried him.

jhuskey said:

Would you say then that violent anger is not necessarily evil unless it has persistence?

i think that a person who is not intrinsically evil is capable of an act such as murder in cold blood.

if the victim deserved (in the killers eyes) to die, such as in revenge for a terrible crime committed against the killer.

we all associate priests and the like of being generally 'good' people. If that priest's parents or close family were murdered, the priest in a moment of madness may decide to hunt down and kill the person responsible. The priest isnt necessarily evil in this instance..

FredC said:

I had a dog once that was definately evil, so I took him down the field hit him on the head with a spade and buried him.

i had a dog that like curry, although the mutt was a good hearted old soul, his [censored] did emit the occasional hellish odour.

jhuskey said:

The age old question...does evil exist as a pert of the universe or is evil a manifestation of the human race?
Animals are referred to as malevolent but seldom evil.
Animals generally only do harm as a system of survival. Humans on the other hand will commit deeds that have no other goal than to inflict pain and suffering or fear.
Does evil exist as an entity as if to have self awarness and devisiveness or is evil simply an absence of good?
Does evil need exist as to balance the universe as a counterpart to good or is evil simply a matter of perspective?
If evil does exist as being a condition that is natural to the universe can it be conquered and if just a condition of the human mind can we conquer our own faults? 😕

Thoughts and input please.

[font=Times New Roman]You raise a good point but wild animals do not have the ability to discern between what is good and what is evil. They act on instinct and survival. Humans act to survive but also posses the mental capacity to know what is good and what is evil. Some derive pleasure out of dong evil while others get their kicks from good works. Mental disease can play a role as well. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Animals have no concept of “money” and what it can do for you, nor do animals partake in the abuse of drugs. Throughout history most evil deeds or atrocities committed by one human or a group of humans upon another can be attributed to Greed, the love of a good or bad woman or a combination of drugs, mental disease etc…[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]So in my opinion, the motivation to commit “evil” deeds etc is so diverse that it will never be eradicated and is both learned and manifested by a mixed bag of conditions. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Look on this forum for example there are those who exist only to inflict pain on the reader while at the same time claim to be the victim… [/font]

MountainPro said:

i think that a person who is not intrinsically evil is capable of an act such as murder in cold blood.

if the victim deserved (in the killers eyes) to die, such as in revenge for a terrible crime committed against the killer.

we all associate priests and the like of being generally 'good' people. If that priest's parents or close family were murdered, the priest in a moment of madness may decide to hunt down and kill the person responsible. The priest isnt necessarily evil in this instance..

I believe we are in agreement that evil has persistence by definition but there again a better of more patient person as you say might fight off the urge for revenge and forgive.
Then we have the theory that evil is the absence of good.
As far as FredC and his a pet,I would like to note what an unselfish sacrifice it was for him to rid the world of such a malevolent force.
Was it a Poodle?

Eden said:

I'm with the evil is a matter of perspective camp. Things that I view as evil may be viewed by others as benign or even good and vice versa. I think that as with most human endevours it often comes down to the "me". If it affects "me" in a way that I don't like then it is evil whether or not for someone else it may be good. While many people don't exist day to day in a situation of life and death the instinct for personal survival is still quite strong, so I think that it is difficult (but not impossible) to get people to make personal sacrifices for the good of others.

I think that the bigger trouble is that many many people are easily led and allow others to tell them what is good and what is evil and even worse what they should do about it. If people stopped to think for themselves more often they might see that the world is a lot less black and white than they have been led to believe.

ying and yang , hot and cold , good and evil

MountainPro said:

i had a dog that like curry, although the mutt was a good hearted old soul, his [censored] did emit the occasional hellish odour.

I've told you before, dogs are not designed to live in house, otherwise they wouldn't have fur.

jhuskey said:

I believe we are in agreement that evil has persistence by definition but there again a better of more patient person as you say might fight off the urge for revenge and forgive.
Then we have the theory that evil is the absence of good.
As far as FredC and his a pet,I would like to note what an unselfish sacrifice it was for him to rid the world of such a malevolent force.
Was it a Poodle?

No it was some sort of 80% black labrador, god knows what the other bit was. He had to die, before the Sheriff put a destruction order on him, and I had to pay damages to innocent people. Another dog I had, a real gent was Angus, he was half miniature poodle, and half Highland terrier. If he barked from his kennel, something was going on, never a false alarm.

FredC said:

No it was some sort of 80% black labrador, god knows what the other bit was. He had to die, before the Sheriff put a destruction order on him, and I had to pay damages to innocent people. Another dog I had, a real gent was Angus, he was half miniature poodle, and half Highland terrier. If he barked from his kennel, something was going on, never a false alarm.

Maybe the dog knew those people were evil and took a premptive strike posture.
Terriers are great pooches.