bike fitting methodology?

"dookie" <[email protected]> wrote in news:N040b.3215$Ge7.482610
@twister.southeast.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

1) 'feel' it out. get on, ride, adjust as you see fit.

2) see the old italian guy. he'll close one eye, hold up his thumb, watch you on the bike, and
issue his verdict.

3) various 'hard data'-oriented formulas. measure various body and bike parts and angles, compute.

There are a lot of different formulas out there and they can give you a starting point. I don't
think any work as well as #2. The formulas mostly work on 1 or 2 body measurements at a time, but
bike fit really needs to consider how your whole body interacts with the whole bike. A good coach
can evaluate your whole body. You can try to do this too, which is your #1.

Note that good fit needs to consider fitness as well. If 2 riders have the same body dimensions, the
weaker one will usually want a more upright riding position.

RE/

Quoted message said:

i'm not talking about what size frame to buy, but how to best position the body atop it (with both
comfort and performance in mind). there seem to be perhaps three schools of thought:

My own experience is that what's comfortable/optimal changes with one's fitness and learned riding
technique.

Given that, your optimal position - besides being a unique combination of tradeoffs vis-a-vis
wind resistance, power, comfort, and visibility that's peculiar to you and you alone - will
change over time.

Therefore I'd try to create a situation where you have the most adjustment available to you and not
only expect to play around with it in the beginning - but be open to making changes as time passes.

e.g. An un-cut steering tube...a saddle with plenty long rails...a micro-adjustable
seatpost...plenty-long cables to allow adjustments...

-----------------------
PeteCresswell

dookie [email protected] said:

i'm not talking about what size frame to buy, but how to best position body atop it (with both
comfort and performance in mind). there seem to be perhaps three schools of thought:

1) 'feel' it out. get on, ride, adjust as you see fit.

Feeling and riding is fun.

Quoted message said:

2) see the old italian guy. he'll close one eye, hold up his thumb, watch you on the bike, and
issue his verdict.

This might be a good starting point.

Quoted message said:

3) various 'hard data'-oriented formulas. measure various body and bike parts and angles, compute.

This is a good starting point.

Quoted message said:

any thoughts? the engineer in me tends to gravitate toward #3 and the science of biomechanics, but
i can't very well discount the first two without reason...experience (mine or others) is certainly
valuable too.

#3 is not the definitive perfect fit. It is a
general idea of where to start. After #3 and/or #2, you must give #1 your attention.

You can't just choose one and be sure to get it done right and efficiently.

Quoted message said:

i'm planning to get fit shortly, and i'm interested in the group-think on this one...

thx,

dookie

--
Rick Onanian

Rivendell seems to have a good article on bike fit.

rivendellbicycles.combikes framesize.htmlOpen ↗

dookie said:

i'm not talking about what size frame to buy, but how to best position the body atop it (with both
comfort and performance in mind). there seem to

be

Quoted message said:

perhaps three schools of thought:

1) 'feel' it out. get on, ride, adjust as you see fit.

2) see the old italian guy. he'll close one eye, hold up his thumb, watch you on the bike, and
issue his verdict.

3) various 'hard data'-oriented formulas. measure various body and bike parts and angles, compute.

any thoughts? the engineer in me tends to gravitate toward #3 and the science of biomechanics, but
i can't very well discount the first two without reason...experience (mine or others) is certainly
valuable too.

i'm planning to get fit shortly, and i'm interested in the group-think on this one...

thx,

dookie

--
Mark Wolfe wolfenet.orgwolfenet.orgOpen ↗ gpg fingerprint = 42B6 EFEB 5414 AA18 01B7 64AC EF46 F7E6 82F6
8C71 Want to save thousands of dollars on computer software? Ask me how!

dookie-<< how to best position the body atop it (with both comfort and performance in mind). there
seem to be perhaps three schools of thought:

1) 'feel' it out. get on, ride, adjust as you see fit.

2) see the old italian guy. he'll close one eye, hold up his thumb, watch you on the bike, and issue
his verdict.

3) various 'hard data'-oriented formulas. measure various body and bike parts and angles, compute.

i'm planning to get fit shortly, and i'm interested in the group-think on this one...

all three?? Use a person, looking at you , on a trainer, when you are on your bike...all else is
rubbish...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(4)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

mark-<< Rivendell seems to have a good article on bike fit >><BR><BR>

It is interesting but geeezzzz, it is sometimes as wierd as 'let the old Italian look at you'...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"dookie" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i'm not talking about what size frame to buy, but how to best position the body atop it (with both
comfort and performance in mind). there seem to

be

Quoted message said:

perhaps three schools of thought:

1) 'feel' it out. get on, ride, adjust as you see fit.

2) see the old italian guy. he'll close one eye, hold up his thumb, watch you on the bike, and
issue his verdict.

3) various 'hard data'-oriented formulas. measure various body and bike parts and angles, compute.

any thoughts? the engineer in me tends to gravitate toward #3...

If you are interested in preformance, riding intensity, training, etc., the
#3 goes a long way into finding what's the best bio-mechanical position. But 1 and #2 are important,
#and the understanding that you'll have to adapt to
the machine is also important.

On the other hand, if you are interested mostly to find a comfortable (yet efficient) fit, #1, #2
and #3 probably go in that order. After all in a 10-day loaded tour, the most important factor is to
be comfortable all 10 days.

I'll also add a 4th technique: you and your current bike are a very good starting point. If it fits,
then you know what you like and the guy at the LBS also gets visual clues from that. And if it
doesn't fit, then you know what to complain about!

Michel

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> a écrit :

Quoted message said:

[About bike fitting]: All three?? Use a person, looking at you , on a trainer, when you
are on your

bike...all

Quoted message said:

else is rubbish...

Just one question: I tour and commute on my bike, but I have _never_ climed on a trainer nor used my
bike on rollers. Would I get a "natural" fit if I were to try a new bike on a trainer?

Michel

"> Just one question: I tour and commute on my bike, but I have _never_ climed

Quoted message said:

on a trainer nor used my bike on rollers. Would I get a "natural" fit if I were to try a new bike
on a trainer?

Michel

Nope. Riding a trainer isn't quite the same. Its very, very close, but not exact.

I've done fits that started on a trainer, then went outside to double check everything, and still
ended up tweaking things just a little. The only real way to do the "Italian with the thumb" trick
is to ride with someone for 45-60min. That way, you can see what's going on with their hips, ankles,
knees, etc.

Too bad I can't do the same thing for myself!

Mike

Here's the technique used at the sports center set up by the Mapei cycling team for athletic cycling
at all levels. The rider rides a bike on a trainer at a firm intensity -- hard but certainly not
anaerobic. Using video cameras the angles between certain body parts are measured at key positions
in the pedal stroke.

The angles are then compared against a set of norms for cyclists at certain ability levels with each
norm being a range of degrees and the values for higher level cyclists being more extreme (for
example, the range of values for professionals for upper body position puts the upper body lower
than for other cyclists).

The position is then adjusted so the rider can hit the appropriate norms. Of course, these are just
recommendations, and if the rider cannot reach them he/she is not forced to. But if the rider cannot
reach then suggestions may be made to improve flexibility so the rider can achieve the values
appropriate to his/her riding level.

JT

I fit thousands of road bikes over the years, and if I had to boil it down to basics, I'd do your #3
to get it in the ball-park, then #2 (though I'm as good as any Italian guy), then have you #1 for a
few weeks. Of course, after I did #3 and then #2 I'd write it down on a magic paper because after
you got done doing #1 you'd be so far off the mark and so screwed up that you'd come back for me to
set it up again. But seriously, I measure with a FIT-KIT because it works and I have a lot of
practice with it. That gets me really close. Then I build the bike, set you on it and have you ride
on a trainer untill you sweat. Then I fine-tune the fore-aft with a string plumb-line from knee to
pedal, dial-in seat-height by looking at your overall smoothness, extension and musculature, go back
to the plumb-line. I'll change stems rarely as the Fit-Kit is usually spot-on, but if needed, we do
that later on as you get more comfortable on the bike you might want a touch longer. In tough cases,
we build with a LOOK Ergo-stem untill you are comfortable then install the final stem later.