"DO NOT REFREEZE!" - but why?

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is
gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household
equipment, can actually continue to grow. And the temperature
difference between freezing and the food item's temperature is
not as large as can be obtained in a commercial process. Once
the center of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a
fairly vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

David A. Smith

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:ONo9f.132506$lq6.87991@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is gone, and if
refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household equipment, can
actually continue to grow. And the temperature difference between
freezing and the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center of something thick is
thawed, it is possible for a fairly vigorous community to keep the center
from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

David A. Smith

It's interesting that the link you give makes no mention of what you claim.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:ONo9f.132506$lq6.87991@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is gone,
and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household equipment,
can actually continue to grow. And the temperature difference
between freezing and the food item's temperature is not as large as
can be obtained in a commercial process. Once the center of
something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly vigorous
community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

David A. Smith

It's interesting that the link you give makes no mention of what you
claim.

quite so! In fact I sent the link to my partner to support my theory
that there is not harm in refreezing so long as you are careful🙂

I had never thought of that. There does seem to be a degradation of frozen
meets. I keep my freezer very cold (maximum). (My ice cream is hard.)
About 2 years ago I bought some ground bison meat and froze it. I figured
someday I would thaw it, and fry some bison. When I removed the frozen meat
from the wrapper, I found that it had a patch of green across several square
inches. Obviously, something still grows in the freezer. I threw the meat
away. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I thought that frozen meat would last
indefinitely.

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:ONo9f.132506$lq6.87991@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is
gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household
equipment, can actually continue to grow. And the temperature
difference between freezing and the food item's temperature is
not as large as can be obtained in a commercial process. Once
the center of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a
fairly vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

David A. Smith

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had never thought of that. There does seem to be a degradation of frozen
meets. I keep my freezer very cold (maximum). (My ice cream is hard.)
About 2 years ago I bought some ground bison meat and froze it. I figured
someday I would thaw it, and fry some bison. When I removed the frozen
meat
from the wrapper, I found that it had a patch of green across several
square
inches. Obviously, something still grows in the freezer. I threw the
meat
away. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I thought that frozen meat would last
indefinitely.

How long was it in there???

JS said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but once it is
thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific basis for such
a statement?

---

I believe that slow freezing forms large ice crystals which can
damage the structure of the cell membrane of foods and so impair
taste. If refreezing also impairs taste then that's too bad but at
least it does not seem to be dangerous.

However "DO NOT REFREEZE!" reads like a health warning. Is there
some danger from refreezing and exactly what is it?

Because if you refreeze it and the quality deteriorates tremendously,
you might thaw it out months later and forget that you had already
thawed it once -- and then not buy their product again because it sucked
after you abused it.

Also, once the food is thawed, bacterial growth starts. Then you freeze
it, and bacterial growth stops but the bacteria from that earlier growth
phase is still there. When you thaw it again, bacterial growth starts
again with a much higher initial population -- so it spoils much more
quickly.

They are also afraid you will let the food spoil completely and then
stick it back in the freezer, and then not notice that it is spoiled
when you thaw it again.

-Bob

In article <[email hidden]>,

Cubit said:

I had never thought of that. There does seem to be a degradation of frozen
meets. I keep my freezer very cold (maximum). (My ice cream is hard.)
About 2 years ago I bought some ground bison meat and froze it. I figured
someday I would thaw it, and fry some bison. When I removed the frozen meat
from the wrapper, I found that it had a patch of green across several square
inches. Obviously, something still grows in the freezer. I threw the meat
away. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I thought that frozen meat would last
indefinitely.

Frozen meat gets freezer burned after awhile, but Tilia Vaccuum packing
helps extend the shelf like a lot longer! I Tilia all of the more
expensive cuts of beef that I stock up on when they are on sale.
T-bones, Rib eyes and such, as well as shrimp when it is in season.

What you probably had was freezer burn and the meat was still safe. It
just tastes funky but is often ok if you just cut off all the freezer
burn (green-gray or white) sections. Ground tho' IME is best used within
6 weeks. I think due to the surface area, it gets burned faster.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

JS said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but once it is
thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific basis for such
a statement?

---

I believe that slow freezing forms large ice crystals which can
damage the structure of the cell membrane of foods and so impair
taste. If refreezing also impairs taste then that's too bad but at
least it does not seem to be dangerous.

However "DO NOT REFREEZE!" reads like a health warning. Is there
some danger from refreezing and exactly what is it?

Because if you refreeze it and the quality deteriorates tremendously,
you might thaw it out months later and forget that you had already
thawed it once -- and then not buy their product again because it sucked
after you abused it.

Also, once the food is thawed, bacterial growth starts. Then you freeze
it, and bacterial growth stops but the bacteria from that earlier growth
phase is still there. When you thaw it again, bacterial growth starts
again with a much higher initial population -- so it spoils much more
quickly.

They are also afraid you will let the food spoil completely and then
stick it back in the freezer, and then not notice that it is spoiled
when you thaw it again.

-Bob

Sometimes tho' you have little choice but to re-freeze. When I buy 5 lb.
or 10 lb. bags of chicken parts, they may be all stuck together.

I do, however, watch those carefully for re-packaging and only thaw them
enough to get them apart. If I accidently thaw them completely, I just
cook it all. ;-) We like chicken enough that between the two of us, we
can eat 10 lbs. of chicken parts in about 3, maybe 4 days. I marinate it
and grill it.

Generally tho', it's still slightly "crispy" when I separate a large
batch for re-freezing in smaller portions.

Thaw in the refrigerator too if you are going to do this! It's far safer.

IME the texture and flavor of the meat suffers terribly if you try
re-freezing after it's been thawed...

Beef more so than chicken.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

JS said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but once it is
thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific basis for
such
a statement?

---

I believe that slow freezing forms large ice crystals which can
damage the structure of the cell membrane of foods and so impair
taste. If refreezing also impairs taste then that's too bad but at
least it does not seem to be dangerous.

However "DO NOT REFREEZE!" reads like a health warning. Is there
some danger from refreezing and exactly what is it?

Because if you refreeze it and the quality deteriorates tremendously,
you might thaw it out months later and forget that you had already
thawed it once -- and then not buy their product again because it
sucked
after you abused it.

Also, once the food is thawed, bacterial growth starts. Then you
freeze
it, and bacterial growth stops but the bacteria from that earlier
growth
phase is still there. When you thaw it again, bacterial growth
starts
again with a much higher initial population -- so it spoils much more
quickly.

They are also afraid you will let the food spoil completely and then
stick it back in the freezer, and then not notice that it is spoiled
when you thaw it again.

-Bob

Sometimes tho' you have little choice but to re-freeze. When I buy 5
lb.
or 10 lb. bags of chicken parts, they may be all stuck together.

I do, however, watch those carefully for re-packaging and only thaw
them
enough to get them apart. If I accidently thaw them completely, I just
cook it all. ;-) We like chicken enough that between the two of us, we
can eat 10 lbs. of chicken parts in about 3, maybe 4 days. I marinate
it
and grill it.

Generally tho', it's still slightly "crispy" when I separate a large
batch for re-freezing in smaller portions.

Thaw in the refrigerator too if you are going to do this! It's far
safer.

IME the texture and flavor of the meat suffers terribly if you try
re-freezing after it's been thawed...

Beef more so than chicken.

I learned years ago that you can refreeze something so long as ice
crystles are still present.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ophelia said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

JS wrote:
> On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but once it is
> thawed it must not be re-frozen.
>
> Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific basis for
> such
> a statement?
>
> ---
>
> I believe that slow freezing forms large ice crystals which can
> damage the structure of the cell membrane of foods and so impair
> taste. If refreezing also impairs taste then that's too bad but at
> least it does not seem to be dangerous.
>
> However "DO NOT REFREEZE!" reads like a health warning. Is there
> some danger from refreezing and exactly what is it?
>

Because if you refreeze it and the quality deteriorates tremendously,
you might thaw it out months later and forget that you had already
thawed it once -- and then not buy their product again because it
sucked
after you abused it.

Also, once the food is thawed, bacterial growth starts. Then you
freeze
it, and bacterial growth stops but the bacteria from that earlier
growth
phase is still there. When you thaw it again, bacterial growth
starts
again with a much higher initial population -- so it spoils much more
quickly.

They are also afraid you will let the food spoil completely and then
stick it back in the freezer, and then not notice that it is spoiled
when you thaw it again.

-Bob

Sometimes tho' you have little choice but to re-freeze. When I buy 5
lb.
or 10 lb. bags of chicken parts, they may be all stuck together.

I do, however, watch those carefully for re-packaging and only thaw
them
enough to get them apart. If I accidently thaw them completely, I just
cook it all. ;-) We like chicken enough that between the two of us, we
can eat 10 lbs. of chicken parts in about 3, maybe 4 days. I marinate
it
and grill it.

Generally tho', it's still slightly "crispy" when I separate a large
batch for re-freezing in smaller portions.

Thaw in the refrigerator too if you are going to do this! It's far
safer.

IME the texture and flavor of the meat suffers terribly if you try
re-freezing after it's been thawed...

Beef more so than chicken.

I learned years ago that you can refreeze something so long as ice
crystles are still present.

Yes... :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is
gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household
equipment, can actually continue to grow. And the temperature
difference between freezing and the food item's temperature is
not as large as can be obtained in a commercial process. Once
the center of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a
fairly vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

David A. Smith

http://www.hkpr.on.ca/healthy-environments-master.asp?id=207 ??

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

There are biological organisms that can grow once the ice is
gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable in household
equipment, can actually continue to grow. And the temperature
difference between freezing and the food item's temperature is
not as large as can be obtained in a commercial process. Once
the center of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a
fairly vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

The safety issues have very little to do with it. Even your
own cite says it's a quality issue, not a safety one.

Why packages say "Do not refreeze"

Frozen food packers want their products to have a good
image with shoppers. Because quality can deteriorate if
interior product temperatures rang up to 40 degrees Fahrenheit,
many manufacturers do not recommend refreezing such thawed
food because they cannot guarantee quality under such
conditions.

If you thaw something in the refrigerator there's
little or no danger of bacterial growth, which doesn't
occur much below 40 F. In all likelihood it can
be safely refrozen.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

I would guess a year and a half to two years.

"Doug Kanter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had never thought of that. There does seem to be a degradation of

frozen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meets. I keep my freezer very cold (maximum). (My ice cream is hard.)
About 2 years ago I bought some ground bison meat and froze it. I

figured

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

someday I would thaw it, and fry some bison. When I removed the frozen
meat
from the wrapper, I found that it had a patch of green across several
square
inches. Obviously, something still grows in the freezer. I threw the
meat
away. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I thought that frozen meat would last
indefinitely.

How long was it in there???

Interestingly, I sometimes boil carrots, then freeze them. But after
they thaw, they are tougher. The phenomenon has to do with the
proteins, not the "lipid bilayer membrane" which certainly has no
structural role. Many viruses don't have a "lipid bilayer membrane,"
and this is because proteins are all that is required to hold a cell
together. Water molecules are bound to the cytoskeletal proteins, but
after freezing, some of the water molecules can be released, due to the
effects on the proteins. See www.gilbertling.org if you want more
technical information. In general, freezing seems okay. I refreeze
plenty of food, but I don't let it sit around for a long time. Let it
thaw, take what you need, then put the rest back in right away - that
should be fine for most food.

Dear John Kane:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the
ice is gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable
in household equipment, can actually continue to grow.
And the temperature difference between freezing and
the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center
of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly
vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

http://www.hkpr.on.ca/healthy-environments-master.asp?id=207
??

<QUOTE>
Discard any food which has completely thawed, and has been at
room temperature for an unknown period of time.
<END QUOTE>

David A. Smith

Dear John Kane:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the
ice is gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable
in household equipment, can actually continue to grow.
And the temperature difference between freezing and
the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center
of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly
vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

http://www.hkpr.on.ca/healthy-environments-master.asp?id=207
??

<QUOTE>
Discard any food which has completely thawed, and has been at
room temperature for an unknown period of time.
<END QUOTE>

David A. Smith

Dear John Kane:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

Dear JS:

"JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On a lot of food items it says that it can be frozen but
once it is thawed it must not be re-frozen.

Why mus they not be refrozen? What is the scientific
basis for such a statement?

There are biological organisms that can grow once the
ice is gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable
in household equipment, can actually continue to grow.
And the temperature difference between freezing and
the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center
of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly
vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

http://www.hkpr.on.ca/healthy-environments-master.asp?id=207
??

<QUOTE>
Discard any food which has completely thawed, and has been at
room temperature for an unknown period of time.
<END QUOTE>

David A. Smith

Dear Reg:

"Reg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

There are biological organisms that can grow once the
ice is gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable
in household equipment, can actually continue to grow.
And the temperature difference between freezing and
the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center
of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly
vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

The safety issues have very little to do with it. Even your
own cite says it's a quality issue, not a safety one.

Why packages say "Do not refreeze"

Frozen food packers want their products to have a good
image with shoppers. Because quality can deteriorate if
interior product temperatures rang up to 40 degrees
Fahrenheit, many manufacturers do not recommend
refreezing such thawed food because they cannot
guarantee quality under such conditions.

If you thaw something in the refrigerator there's
little or no danger of bacterial growth, which doesn't
occur much below 40 F. In all likelihood it can
be safely refrozen.

I disagree. "Little or no danger of bacterial growth" is only in
the laboratory.
- *If* the refrigerator is kept closed.
- *If* the refrigerator is allowed to stay at "40 deg F" (and
not asked to cool down a wam dish or three in the interim).
- *If* the refrigerator isn't in my house (basically)
.... then bacteria won't grow. Otherwise, two days later, it is
eat it or pitch it. And don't refreeze it.

I've got a new refrigerator, and keep it fairly clean inside.
But... I've got kids.

David A. Smith

Dear Reg:

"Reg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) said:

There are biological organisms that can grow once the
ice is gone, and if refrozen at the gentle rate obtainable
in household equipment, can actually continue to grow.
And the temperature difference between freezing and
the food item's temperature is not as large as can be
obtained in a commercial process. Once the center
of something thick is thawed, it is possible for a fairly
vigorous community to keep the center from freezing.
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/miscpubs/mp0556_01.htm

The safety issues have very little to do with it. Even your
own cite says it's a quality issue, not a safety one.

Why packages say "Do not refreeze"

Frozen food packers want their products to have a good
image with shoppers. Because quality can deteriorate if
interior product temperatures rang up to 40 degrees
Fahrenheit, many manufacturers do not recommend
refreezing such thawed food because they cannot
guarantee quality under such conditions.

If you thaw something in the refrigerator there's
little or no danger of bacterial growth, which doesn't
occur much below 40 F. In all likelihood it can
be safely refrozen.

I disagree. "Little or no danger of bacterial growth" is only in
the laboratory.
- *If* the refrigerator is kept closed.
- *If* the refrigerator is allowed to stay at "40 deg F" (and
not asked to cool down a wam dish or three in the interim).
- *If* the refrigerator isn't in my house (basically)
.... then bacteria won't grow. Otherwise, two days later, it is
eat it or pitch it. And don't refreeze it.

I've got a new refrigerator, and keep it fairly clean inside.
But... I've got kids.

David A. Smith