pace for marathon.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:37:37 GMT, "Panos" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum.

big difference, i think. which pace are you starting out with?

Quoted message said:

The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

doesn't sound like anything to worry about.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster for
the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a race
strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to follow
the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to try
to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can go
the same speed or even faster for the second?

what are you planning to eat? how much will you drink? i would
expect to pick it up towards the last 10K. and a bit more for
the last 5K.

Quoted message said:

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

nope.
....thehick

out of curiousity, is the course the same as the Olympic course?

Panos said:

Hi,

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

(220m - 100m) / (32km-21km) = 1.09%

Since this is your first and I suspect aren't hill trained, you may want
to slow a little there, but you may not know it's there unless there's a
sign.

Good luck and enjoy.

Dot

--
"If we reach all our goals, we are not setting them high enough."
- Matt Carpenter

Quoted message said:

out of curiousity, is the course the same as the Olympic course?

According to the Athens Marathon web site:

"The Athens Marathon is recognized as the original marathon course and it
was the same course used in the 2004 Olympics held in Athens."

--
Phil M.

I would say be a roman and look to the sky and come up with a storied
and a pattern of stars to the 1 of 88 official constellation
patterns.....
and They say hell Michigan is insane.....

Good luck. I think in this group they say look at the horizon......
then you might run your self into the earth........

I found a trash 90° carpenter table saw devise. so as bright as venus
was last week....and screw drivers and landscape and angles and
distance...maybe I could use the astronomical distance and measurement
theories of the finger at arm length gig.and table saw devise.and come
up with a view point on how to look at the marathon race...

When you see the captain....at the end of the race. or in some places
The Monkey...
or is Lance A....sight.Crow Magnums......

well anyways......See the monkey...and dance......or run like hell in
your view.....

I got to go..put out the trash and ride my bike......... maybe find
something good.or maybe not.... important thing for e.. is too be
conquerable ridding hills and learn how to shift gears proper.so I not
wear out the gears......I put my trip bike in storage..and well use my
trash bike again....... and as always........

In the eyes of our lord....biking is the same as running..... thumbs
out... fingers straight..use the palms....
and no matter what anyone says about wind directions and piles of [censored].
be it horses or your own........

milk and meat......means farts all night long........if your a man,
give the world a break and wait 14 hours between the two....and in my
case.......36 hours.........

Weewwwwwwwwwww we.
and dude form the east.......I am Homey..... and your right I am
preparing here for winter.weather any one likes it or not.and I would
surest you do the same before it is to cold to do so.......

So: It must be nice some times for you to run in the desert in winter or
the barren land there about.......

the hills the wind storms and all.....tribes, and sea and
salt.......The stories of past and futures.Tell me in this barren land
holds the Divine cup......The grail quest....... is one is search
of........The covent resides in the lords hand.as of now.I have a long
way to go to find such verses in read time.I know and all lips are self
own for gain urology 4 surest........

Butt to evan know a barren land as of waste..........as yours is or
not......Mosses alway holders world wide......and tack can give reasons
to b.s..every wear too......

soldiers wars has rules too and clauses....

me not a soldier and old now to read of stories and facts....and have
learn that faith holds true too........
I work for 30 years and perverted counters have and do take my life as I
know it away from me.and still do with there b.s..ways........I learn to
live around it......... and still do......

Do I seek it to kill your ass.........
maybe.........
truth is..........more for.The plan.Not the b.s..of there what am......

Mosses law resides........
Your a frocking LIAR..........
and have a good life again on my dollar.you pervert piece of [censored].....

somebody owes me $8.00
and the 35¢ or $2.50 a week in 3 years next week I am.....reasons too
magneto mentions.........
for Now I do know the reason the hired the B.s King.......
because the wild well remain........

Over 4000 miles this year.and as the lady at the store said...her friend
in 15 years of bike ridding did 400,000 miles.and a 10 minute debate.I
said his numbers are wrong...and she still stands at 400,000. and
laughter because I think 4000 is good....I am......

so if a olimpic winner in a life time from the 1960 times. and 7 time
yellow shirt times 88....... yellow shirt tour D france can't do butt
in bill time back when his est wasn't american.......-3.......
and and his was 200,000 in his whole carrier o date........Why can Joe
average do 400,000 miles in 15 years and I am a loser....... I said at
yellow shirts would take 80 years to not evan do the moon sort
of....and again.........I am.........

So now with a Hair of sanity back and given time too all the NEW NOT
LIARS owners od of said B>S> again working areas.and on my
dollors..drive in all there new stuff to pick trash.........1 of aother
o my ideas taken away from me by the B.S. people.......I wish you luck
on your run in the barren land..........because evan the million aire
are first pick on the trash and there perverted money ideas are as all
ways......2 + 2 is 4 in america......butt the rich...well there it
is........
2=2 is be a slave ad there perverse ways is again..........all
thers.....NOT.....LIARS.........
sorry if any one takes offence butt there like [censored] roaches
here......not offending the kind animal [censored] roaches.......

Biking the year thru.

Panos said:

Hi,

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster for
the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a race
strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to follow
the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to try
to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can go
the same speed or even faster for the second?

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

Thanks,

Panos.

A 5minute per mile pace works out to near record marathon pace (ie
about 2:10 total time). So somethings wrong with your goal time, or
your pace calculations are way off.

Now assuming this isn't a troll (sorry if I'm wrong, but there be a lot
of them around lately), common wisdom has it that going slower in the
beginning is best. And this is the best advice for a first time
marathon run. Forget the time goal and just enjoy this first marathon.
You'll never have another experience like it. Time goals are for any
followup marathons you run.

so go enjoy the run.
Ed.

Panos said:

Hi,

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster for
the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a race
strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to follow
the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to try
to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can go
the same speed or even faster for the second?

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

Thanks,

Panos.

Oops, I misread your pace. You did say per Km. So ignore the stuff I
said about that. But the advice about starting out slow still holds.

Enjoy,
ed

Ed Prochak said:

Panos said:

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km

A 5minute per mile pace works out to near record marathon pace

Yeah, so I guess the fact that there are about 1.6 km in a mile must be
quite a relief to the OP. :-)

Quoth Ed Prochak <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Panos wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km,

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A 5minute per mile pace works out to near record marathon pace (ie
about 2:10 total time). So somethings wrong with your goal time, or
your pace calculations are way off.

He said 5min/km, which is a touch over 8min/mile.

Cheers,
Craig

--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law:
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently
advanced.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Panos said:

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster for
the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a race
strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to follow
the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to try
to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can go
the same speed or even faster for the second?

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

Experience says start on the slow side and accelerate, rather than
start at faster than the pace for your optimistic goal and slow down.
The slowing down can be gargantuan for a too-fast start (tens of minutes
on the second half for minutes 'gained' on the first half).

5 min per km works out to 3:31 for the marathon, a good 13 sec/km
(20 sec/mile) too fast for your 3:40 goal. If the 3:40 is a reasonable
guess of possibility for you, starting at 5:00/km will wreck the race
by 30 km. Rule of thumbish suggests that for 3:40 marathon to be
plausible, you should already have a 22:00 5k in hand. Do you?

If 3:50 is a reasonable goal for you, with 3:40 being optimistic
and 4:00 conservative (it's a good thing to have your optimistic/reasonable/
conservative goals in hand/mind), then I'll suggest starting the
first 21 km on your 3:50 pace -- 5:27/km, increasing your effort
level (now trying to be optimistic once the first half is over) to
maintain it on the hill to 32 km, and then try to accelerate to the
3:40 pace -- 5:12/km from there to the finish.

You might also find, as a friend did, that conservative was actually
optimistic. She entereed a marathon recently (her second, after a
pretty bad first marathon 2 years ago) and started out conservatively,
planning to accelerate around mile 15 to her more interesting
(Boston Qualifier) pace. At mile 15 she discovered that this wasn't
going to happen (insufficient training, which was why she had started
slowly) and held the conservative pace to the end of the race. So
she still set a personal best by a wide margin (14 minutes), even though
she started almost a minute per mile slower than the previous time.
She mentioned that she heard my voice at the starting line :-)

Given her result, you might find that slowing to 4:00 pace on the hill
is a good idea, and then trying to recover the 3:50 pace afterwards.
Then again, you might try starting this first marathon at 4:00 pace
(well, 3:59:59 pace) and hold it there until 32 km and _then_ see
how you feel about accelerating to 3:50 and 3:40 pace. It is much
more fun to finish while accelerating. Even holding steady pace
means you pass a ton of people.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Charlie Pendejo said:

Ed Prochak said:

Panos said:

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km

A 5minute per mile pace works out to near record marathon pace

Yeah, so I guess the fact that there are about 1.6 km in a mile must be
quite a relief to the OP. :-)

I caught it as soon as I posted.
&*) <--- me with egg on my face.

ed

(the problem now with archived newsgroups is that
your mistakes are visible nearly forever.)

Ed Prochak said:

Panos said:

Hi,

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around 3:40
but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I think
not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the 21km
to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster for
the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a race
strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to follow
the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to try
to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can go
the same speed or even faster for the second?

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

Thanks,

Panos.

A 5minute per mile pace works out to near record marathon pace (ie
about 2:10 total time). So somethings wrong with your goal time, or
your pace calculations are way off.

He said 5 mins. per kilometer, not per mile.

Quoted message said:

Now assuming this isn't a troll (sorry if I'm wrong, but there be a lot
of them around lately), common wisdom has it that going slower in the
beginning is best. And this is the best advice for a first time
marathon run. Forget the time goal and just enjoy this first marathon.
You'll never have another experience like it. Time goals are for any
followup marathons you run.

so go enjoy the run.
Ed.

Hi,

Thanks for all the answers, so the wise amongst you agree that I should take
it little bit easier in the first half and try to pick up the pace in the
second half. That's useful to know, I'll let you know how I did.

Panos.

"Robert Grumbine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Panos said:

I am running the athens marathon on the 6 Nov. I am aiming for around

3:40

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but would settle for 3:50!! ok 4:00 maximum. The race is quite hard I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not that I've run another marathon. There is a gradual uphill from the

21km

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the 32km from 100m to 220 altitude. I can't really appreciate how much
uphill this is!! but would prefer it flat.

Anyway, my plan is to stick to around 5min per km, maybe slightly faster

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the first half and slower for the second half. How does this sound as a

race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

strategy? I've only run 18miles max cause injury didn't allow me to

follow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the schedule so no idea how you feel at 22. Do you think it's better to

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to have plenty of energy reserves at the half mark and then see if I can

go

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the same speed or even faster for the second?

Any experienced marathon runners with advice?

Experience says start on the slow side and accelerate, rather than
start at faster than the pace for your optimistic goal and slow down.
The slowing down can be gargantuan for a too-fast start (tens of minutes
on the second half for minutes 'gained' on the first half).

5 min per km works out to 3:31 for the marathon, a good 13 sec/km
(20 sec/mile) too fast for your 3:40 goal. If the 3:40 is a reasonable
guess of possibility for you, starting at 5:00/km will wreck the race
by 30 km. Rule of thumbish suggests that for 3:40 marathon to be
plausible, you should already have a 22:00 5k in hand. Do you?

If 3:50 is a reasonable goal for you, with 3:40 being optimistic
and 4:00 conservative (it's a good thing to have your

optimistic/reasonable/

Quoted message said:

conservative goals in hand/mind), then I'll suggest starting the
first 21 km on your 3:50 pace -- 5:27/km, increasing your effort
level (now trying to be optimistic once the first half is over) to
maintain it on the hill to 32 km, and then try to accelerate to the
3:40 pace -- 5:12/km from there to the finish.

You might also find, as a friend did, that conservative was actually
optimistic. She entereed a marathon recently (her second, after a
pretty bad first marathon 2 years ago) and started out conservatively,
planning to accelerate around mile 15 to her more interesting
(Boston Qualifier) pace. At mile 15 she discovered that this wasn't
going to happen (insufficient training, which was why she had started
slowly) and held the conservative pace to the end of the race. So
she still set a personal best by a wide margin (14 minutes), even though
she started almost a minute per mile slower than the previous time.
She mentioned that she heard my voice at the starting line :-)

Given her result, you might find that slowing to 4:00 pace on the hill
is a good idea, and then trying to recover the 3:50 pace afterwards.
Then again, you might try starting this first marathon at 4:00 pace
(well, 3:59:59 pace) and hold it there until 32 km and _then_ see
how you feel about accelerating to 3:50 and 3:40 pace. It is much
more fun to finish while accelerating. Even holding steady pace
means you pass a ton of people.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur

activities notes and links.

Quoted message said:

Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too

much

Quoted message said:

evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than

they

Quoted message said:

would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New

Sciences