drinking when riding and hydration

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by visual_infinity
What about the issue of being dehydrated when cycling, are there ways to know besides our urine colour if we are dehydated??? I dont drink as much as I should, I dont fancy standing up against a bush every 30 minutes (what do the ladies do? lol).

Jonathan

You get very thirsty!!! This normaly comes when you are already dehydrated.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by visual_infinity
What about the issue of being dehydrated when cycling, are there ways to know besides our urine colour if we are dehydated??? I dont drink as much as I should, I dont fancy standing up against a bush every 30 minutes (what do the ladies do? lol).

Jonathan

When you get to the point where you have to stop and lie down with a big headache I guess that will be a good sign you haven't hydrated enough :-)

I try to drink a little bit all the time. when training I use a camelbak that holds 2 liters of liquid. I noticed that depending on heat and effort I put in, I'll drink about 750ml to 1 liter every hour. At that pace of drinking I have never had to stop for a bush to pee during a ride. I also try to drink something (Water/Gatorade/Powerade) 1 hour before going. That way I almost always manage to go pee before I leave for my ride, which probably helps me not having to go during the ride. I mostly use gatorade for my rides, it has always served me well. And judging from the salt crystals on my forehead after the ride. I think Gatorade is a good choice since it contains more sodium then Powerade does. I can't say if there is anything better though? I have never tried anything else?

I have gotten so used to drinking on the bike a little at a time that I feel weird not having something to drink with me while I ride.

Eating on the bike is another matter, I still need to practice eating wilhe riding. I have been having a tough time managing my breathing with eating at the same time :-)

All thisbusiness of eating whilst riding is silly in my opinion, what is wrong with stopping for a minute? It will replenish you with oxygen ad take away the pain of lactic acid.

visual_infinty,

if you are riding in a group, stopping for a minute will leave you a minute behind. If you had too much lactic acid before you stopped, forget about catching back up.

If you are riding solo i suppose you could stop. this would disrupt your continuity though.

Hey visual_infinity,

I practice eating on the bike when I train so that when I need to do it when it counts I'll have a little more experience and won't struggle unpackaging the food :-) I do this maybe once every week while my long endurance rides just to get into the race mindset !

alp!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by M2cycler
visual_infinty,

if you are riding in a group, stopping for a minute will leave you a minute behind. If you had too much lactic acid before you stopped, forget about catching back up.

Good advice, I completely forgot this would happen.

If you are riding solo i suppose you could stop. this would disrupt your continuity though.

A typical sign if using a HR monitor is your hr will start to drift up. For example, you will see 5 beats higher for the same perceived effort. Typically on rides if you're dehydrated you won't be able "to go" to check the color. The only way I've found is to just know your body. When doing rides weigh yourself before and after. Pay attention to how much you drink. The biggest thing I overlooked was how important it is to start hydrating before the ride. On two successive long rides I understood this. The first of the two I did my typical morning routine, drinking a couple cups of coffee and an oj then hit the road. The following weekend I still did the same thing but added several glasses of water the few hours leading up to the ride and I felt much better during the ride.

Quoted post said:

A typical sign if using a HR monitor is your hr will start to drift up. For example, you will see 5 beats higher for the same perceived effort.

This is just a sign of a normal endurance ride, and has nothing to do with dehydration.

BTW, it has to be real hot or you must be drinking really little in order to dehydrate. As a general rule of thumb (some of the resident coaches could correct me here if I've got the quantities wrong) 500-700ml of fluid per hour is sufficient.

The important thing however is your carbohydrate intake while you are riding. That fluid is not going to help you much unless there's some carbs in there - about 20g per 30 minutes riding is what you should be aiming for.

In hot & humid countries, eating and drinking on the fly is essential and more so when racing. I often race XC mtb in 35+ degree Celcius here in Thailand and can easily get through 1 litre of water, electrolyte mix in an hour, and still feel thirsty. Dehydration creeps up on you when you least expect and it's not a very enjoyable experience. I agree with midbunchlurker to drinking at least 750ml fluids/hour on the fly in cold/warm/hot weather and maybe 1-2 powergels /hour as well if racing in the tropics.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by MidBunchLurker
This is just a sign of a normal endurance ride, and has nothing to do with dehydration.

BTW, it has to be real hot or you must be drinking really little in order to dehydrate. As a general rule of thumb (some of the resident coaches could correct me here if I've got the quantities wrong) 500-700ml of fluid per hour is sufficient.

The important thing however is your carbohydrate intake while you are riding. That fluid is not going to help you much unless there's some carbs in there - about 20g per 30 minutes riding is what you should be aiming for.

I do agree that drifting hr is a typical reaction to long rides but I also know that dehydration will also do the same. In fact if you google the internet you'll find numerous hits that back this. The other aspect is that dehydration is a continuum meaning you can be any "degree" dehydrated. It's not simply a condition that occurs when you cross a certain point. I do 3.5 hour rides on the week end that end at 2pm in approx 100F heat. I drink approximately 5-25 oz bottles along the way and I can still loose 5 pounds from beginning to end.

Here's an interesteing excerpt from one source:

A 1992 study by S.J. Montain and Ed Coyle, Ph.D., found that heart rate increases approximately seven beats per minute for each 1% loss in body weight due to dehydration

Actually, you can't rehydrate on the bike. You can only slow down your rate of dehydration. Lance's performance in the individual time trial is a case in point. He ran out of fluid. Generally water is more important than carbs for the first hour. Steady exertion for more than an hour and a half mandates both water and some fuel.

Excellent addtional point. Something my coach always reinforces. Even hours after a long ride you're still not back to 100%. That's why training guidelines always say to start hydrating a day or two before a long ride (century).

The heart rate symptom that you are talking about is referred to as cardiac drift. It's an effect of the body warming up. When the body heats up the heart regulates the heat by moving more blood along. Since the body is getting warmer the blood doesn't get cooled down properly on the way, and the heart increases the rate/flow. If you start getting dehydrated the body responds by decreasing sweat rate in order to save water, which in turn increases the need for blood flow to cool down the body. That's the reason you start getting a higher heart rate when you get dehydrated. If you managed to keep enough water in the body, you'd get a full sweat going and the body would not need to rely on blood flow as much for cooling down. The problem is much worse for cyclists than runners because sweat dries off the skin quicker due to airflow. That means that less heat/energy is dissipated from the body through sweat evaporation. You're correct about the inability to rehydrate on the bike. If you try you'll just have to get off and pee more often. During the hot stages of the 2003 TDF the riders would drink about 20 bottles during a 5 hour stage. That's only to stay in the race. They still needed to drink that same amount between arrival and next stage to have a competetive chance. However, one of the biggest problems is not water. It's minerals. It takes quite some time for minerals to be absorbed by the body, and it often requires a mix of various sources of nutrition for specific minerals to be absorbed at all. Therefore it's equally important to maintain a balanced diet for hydration as it is to simply drink. Lastly, don't forget that the body requires training to learn to absorb the large amounts of water needed to train in hot conditions. You must practice for some time by drinking continously during the day.

East Texas aint fit for man nor beast from 900am to 500pm May through Sept -- unless you happen to love heat and humidity.

I add 1/2 teaspoon Morton LiteSalt to my 2 liter backpack canteen.

Here is why ...........

page 118 Let's Eat Right by Adelle Davis

Under normal circumstances, a healthy person runs little risk of deficiencies of sodium and chlorine. In extremely hot weather, however, so much salt can be lost through perspiration that death may occur.

Death from salt deficiency occured during the construction of Boulder Dam and similiar projects. During the blistering summer of 1933 I corresponded with an engineer who was working on Parker Dam. Each letter contained some such note as, "We had a wonderful cook but he died yesterday of sunstroke." The symptoms of sunstroke are now recognized as caused largely by loss of salt through perspiration.

A lack of salt causes symptoms varying in severity from mild lassitude, weariness, or hot-weather fatigue, common during heat waves, to heat cramp, heat exhaustion, and heatstroke, familiar to those who work in iron foundries, furnace or boiler rooms, and industrial plants such as steel or paper mills. Even persons who play tennis or take similar exercise during hot weather may suffer from heat stroke.

Persons working in extremely hot weather are often advised to take a salt tablet with each drink of water.

page 187 there are three nutrients - potassium, sodium and chlorine which we need in quite large amounts. Sodium and chlorine are supplied by tablet salt. Potassium is widely occuring in ........

Morton LiteSalt 11 oz about 99c
1 oz = 6 teaspooons
11 oz = 66 teaspoons= 76,560 mg sodium, and 89,760 mg potassium

1/4 teaspoon serving
290 mg sodium
340 mg potassium
40% iodine

p273 "Let's eat right" by Adelle Davis "People who salt food lightly should add 3,000 mg sodium to a day's dietary, and those who enjoy well salted food 7,000 mg. Normally, the intake of potassium should be approximately the same as that of sodium, and calcium intake should be 2/3 that of phosphoros."

.............................................................................................
I do not use Gatorade.

here is the info on a Gatorade label.

amount per 8 oz serving

total fat ...................0g
sodium.................110 mg
potassium..............30mg
total carb...............14g
sugards.................14g
protein...................0g

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by visual_infinity
What about the issue of being dehydrated when cycling, are there ways to know besides our urine colour if we are dehydated??? I dont drink as much as I should, I dont fancy standing up against a bush every 30 minutes (what do the ladies do? lol).

Jonathan

In summer's hot weather, adequate fluid intake and optimal hydration during training and competition seems more important than ever. Watching the Tour de France, it was easy to see how the heat wave in France affected the hydration and fluid status of some of the top competitors.
Even a 2 percent drop in body weight during moderate to hard draining can impair your performance. When you become dehydrated, your heart rate increases, your body temperature goes up, exercise seems harder, and fluids take longer to empty from your stomach. When training for long sessions in the heat, carbohydrate and sodium intake are also a factor and needed nutrients for optimal performance.
Sweat rates vary from athlete to athlete, and the more trained you are, the more you sweat and the better you become at cooling your body. Sweat rates can range from 48 to 90 ounces per hour, depending on the athlete and weather conditions. Despite your best efforts, you may only replace 50 to 80 percent of your sweat losses. Even the "best drinkers" may only replace 80 percent of fluid losses. You are somewhat limited by how quickly fluids can empty from your stomach - probably at about a rate of 24 to 40 ounces per hour.
Because you need to replace not only fluid, but carbohydrate and sodium, when you train for longer than 60 minutes, sports drinks are usually your best fluid choice. If you consume 4 to 8 ounces every 15 to 20 minutes, you receive just the right balance of carbohydrate and fluid.
Most sports drinks have a 6 to 8 percent carbohydrate concentration and empty from your stomach as quickly as water, and are quickly absorbed through your small intestine, after which they then enter your bloostream. Personal tolerances for volumes and sports drink brands can certainly vary. Diluting your drink can help if you are not tolerating a particular drink.
However, when you dilute a drink, you could be missing out on needed carbohydrate. You can try various brands, as individual tolerances and preferences do vary, or you can dilute the brand you are using and slowly work up to full strength. If you are not able to work up to full strength, you may remain hydrated, but not receive the full amounts of carbohydrate and sodium that you require.
To maximize how quickly fluid is emptied from your stomach, start your training with a bit of fluid in your stomach. A distended stomach will empty more quickly, with about 50 percent of your stomach contents being emptied every 10 minutes. Take gulps and try to drink on a schedule.
The wide variety of sports drinks available also provides a number of carbohydrate sources, ranging from glucose, fructose, sucrose, glucose polymers, and maltodextrin in various combinations. Experiment to see which product works best for you when mixed to full strength.
Practice drinking, and check your weight before and after training to determine how well you are keeping up with your sweat rates. For every pound of weight loss consume 20 to 24 ounces of fluid to rehydrate. Having fluids that contain carbohydrate also replenish fuel stores. Having fluids and foods that contain sodium also enhance the rehydration process.

I personally drink Gatorade and have often wondered if it is "the best." Powerade gives me heartburn. I also find I get achy if I drink only water. It takes a few days, but I sure notice the difference.

One medical site I read says to prevent dehydration under most circumstances drink 6 ounces of fluid every 15 minutes (~180 cc). That seems to work well for me, and is right around what I see most others saying.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jtfleming
I personally drink Gatorade and have often wondered if it is "the best." Powerade gives me heartburn. I also find I get achy if I drink only water. It takes a few days, but I sure notice the difference.

One medical site I read says to prevent dehydration under most circumstances drink 6 ounces of fluid every 15 minutes (~180 cc). That seems to work well for me, and is right around what I see most others saying.

gatorade is a great drink. it's all you need - carbs, electrolytes and fluids

ric

Excessive water intake can cause brain damage and death if it lacks salt. Massive consumption of water while sweating depletes the body of salt - which is necessary for brain function. If you consume a lot of water, it must have salt in it. There have been reported deaths from excessive water consumption by atheletes who were drinking only pure water.

Some of the cyclists here drink Pedialyte. They say it's better than Gatorade. Can anyone say whether this is so?