Trying Again

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

mare said:

Pat wrote:
> What you have described is not the "first two weeks" of the Atkins
> diet. Do
> you have the book?
>
> At any rate, one way to stop the snacking on cookies and other junk is
> to
> not have them in the house. I solved that problem by keeping almonds
> around.
> Pour out some, say to yourself: "This is my snack" and when they're
> gone,
> stop eating. Some people say they stall on the carbonated drinks. You
> say
> you drink diet coke. I believe Atkins frowns on caffeine in drinks--at
> least
> the first two weeks. That is one reason why I said you aren't following
> the
> Atkins diet. Other reasons include the vegetables you are eating (at
> least
> in the first two weeks).
>
> Basically, the Atkins diet gets you weaned off of sugar. It also
> controls
> high glycemic carbs, but in my estimation, the first two weeks are to
> break
> the sugar habit.
>
> Pat in TX

I lost 60 pounds on Atkins while drinking my Diet Mountain Dew.
I guess I was lucky except for not doing maintenance & gaining more
back. I'm back on & have to realize that it is a way of life & that I
have to read the rest of the book.

There ya go. Diet Mountain Dew doesn't have sugar anyway. And I'm
firmly in the camp that believes caffeine only stalls some people, not
all of us.

The Atkins Diet has a bit of quackery in it that is not necessary for a low
carb diet.

Or do you believe that low carb diets started with Atkins?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"mare" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Pat wrote:
> > What you have described is not the "first two weeks" of the Atkins
> > diet. Do
> > you have the book?
> >
> > At any rate, one way to stop the snacking on cookies and other junk
> > is
> > to
> > not have them in the house. I solved that problem by keeping almonds
> > around.
> > Pour out some, say to yourself: "This is my snack" and when they're
> > gone,
> > stop eating. Some people say they stall on the carbonated drinks.
> > You
> > say
> > you drink diet coke. I believe Atkins frowns on caffeine in
> > drinks--at
> > least
> > the first two weeks. That is one reason why I said you aren't
> > following
> > the
> > Atkins diet. Other reasons include the vegetables you are eating (at
> > least
> > in the first two weeks).
> >
> > Basically, the Atkins diet gets you weaned off of sugar. It also
> > controls
> > high glycemic carbs, but in my estimation, the first two weeks are
> > to
> > break
> > the sugar habit.
> >
> > Pat in TX
>
>
> I lost 60 pounds on Atkins while drinking my Diet Mountain Dew.
> I guess I was lucky except for not doing maintenance & gaining more
> back. I'm back on & have to realize that it is a way of life & that I
> have to read the rest of the book.

There ya go. Diet Mountain Dew doesn't have sugar anyway. And I'm
firmly in the camp that believes caffeine only stalls some people, not
all of us.

No, I don't believe that. But I thought there was at least some logic
and science behind Atkins. Most of it makes sense to me, I'm just
wondering where this "no caffeine" thing comes from. Logic tells me
that caffeine won't interfere with my weight loss, but once upon a time
"logic" also told me eating high-fat foods to lose weight was a silly
idea. I've been surprised before, I could be again, if it turns out
caffeine really does impede weight loss. I've got quite a ways to go
before it's an issue for me regardless, but I'd still like to understand
it better.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

The Atkins Diet has a bit of quackery in it that is not necessary for a low
carb diet.

Or do you believe that low carb diets started with Atkins?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "mare" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Pat wrote:
>> > What you have described is not the "first two weeks" of the Atkins
>> > diet. Do
>> > you have the book?
>> >
>> > At any rate, one way to stop the snacking on cookies and other junk
>> > is
>> > to
>> > not have them in the house. I solved that problem by keeping almonds
>> > around.
>> > Pour out some, say to yourself: "This is my snack" and when they're
>> > gone,
>> > stop eating. Some people say they stall on the carbonated drinks.
>> > You
>> > say
>> > you drink diet coke. I believe Atkins frowns on caffeine in
>> > drinks--at
>> > least
>> > the first two weeks. That is one reason why I said you aren't
>> > following
>> > the
>> > Atkins diet. Other reasons include the vegetables you are eating (at
>> > least
>> > in the first two weeks).
>> >
>> > Basically, the Atkins diet gets you weaned off of sugar. It also
>> > controls
>> > high glycemic carbs, but in my estimation, the first two weeks are
>> > to
>> > break
>> > the sugar habit.
>> >
>> > Pat in TX
>>
>>
>> I lost 60 pounds on Atkins while drinking my Diet Mountain Dew.
>> I guess I was lucky except for not doing maintenance & gaining more
>> back. I'm back on & have to realize that it is a way of life & that I
>> have to read the rest of the book.
>
> There ya go. Diet Mountain Dew doesn't have sugar anyway. And I'm
> firmly in the camp that believes caffeine only stalls some people, not
> all of us.

Atkins took an idea that was already out there and made money off of it.
Unfortunately, he added some nonsensical voodoo into the mix.

There is no science to the notion that caffeine will impede weightloss. In
fact, many people have successfully used caffeine in conjunction with
ephedrine to aid their weightloss efforts.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No, I don't believe that. But I thought there was at least some logic
and science behind Atkins. Most of it makes sense to me, I'm just
wondering where this "no caffeine" thing comes from. Logic tells me
that caffeine won't interfere with my weight loss, but once upon a time
"logic" also told me eating high-fat foods to lose weight was a silly
idea. I've been surprised before, I could be again, if it turns out
caffeine really does impede weight loss. I've got quite a ways to go
before it's an issue for me regardless, but I'd still like to understand
it better.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

The Atkins Diet has a bit of quackery in it that is not necessary for a
low
carb diet.

Or do you believe that low carb diets started with Atkins?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

In article <[email hidden]>,
"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.
>
> --
> Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. --
> MFW
>
>
> "Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > In article <[email hidden]>,
> > "mare" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> >> Pat wrote:
> >> > What you have described is not the "first two weeks" of the
> >> > Atkins
> >> > diet. Do
> >> > you have the book?
> >> >
> >> > At any rate, one way to stop the snacking on cookies and other
> >> > junk
> >> > is
> >> > to
> >> > not have them in the house. I solved that problem by keeping
> >> > almonds
> >> > around.
> >> > Pour out some, say to yourself: "This is my snack" and when
> >> > they're
> >> > gone,
> >> > stop eating. Some people say they stall on the carbonated
> >> > drinks.
> >> > You
> >> > say
> >> > you drink diet coke. I believe Atkins frowns on caffeine in
> >> > drinks--at
> >> > least
> >> > the first two weeks. That is one reason why I said you aren't
> >> > following
> >> > the
> >> > Atkins diet. Other reasons include the vegetables you are eating
> >> > (at
> >> > least
> >> > in the first two weeks).
> >> >
> >> > Basically, the Atkins diet gets you weaned off of sugar. It also
> >> > controls
> >> > high glycemic carbs, but in my estimation, the first two weeks
> >> > are
> >> > to
> >> > break
> >> > the sugar habit.
> >> >
> >> > Pat in TX
> >>
> >>
> >> I lost 60 pounds on Atkins while drinking my Diet Mountain Dew.
> >> I guess I was lucky except for not doing maintenance & gaining more
> >> back. I'm back on & have to realize that it is a way of life & that
> >> I
> >> have to read the rest of the book.
> >
> > There ya go. Diet Mountain Dew doesn't have sugar anyway. And I'm
> > firmly in the camp that believes caffeine only stalls some people,
> > not
> > all of us.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do you ask questions if you don't want to hear the truth?

Why are you such an [censored]? If you don't have something constructive to
add then why do you feel compelled to make derogatory comments?

Sandy, JC is the resident troll, and responding to him does no good
other than to possibly make HIM feel better -- you don't want THAT, do
you? Just killfile or ignore him.

Saffire

--
Saffire
205/127/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

It's because of insulin response. This is particularly significant for
low carb schemes that seek control of blood sugar.

Just as sweeteners cause an insulin response, so can (or does)
caffeine. The level of impact is apparently what varies on an
individual basis.

Same issue with various other non-nutritive sweetenes vs sucralose.
The theory behind warning people off of certain "0 Calorie" diet drink
brands says that more people are likely to have more of a response to
aspartame, for instance, than sucralose.

Google or AltaVista "Diet" + "Caffeine" or "Insulin Response" +
"Caffeine"

RC

Luna said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

Interesting. I read a report on a study about heavy coffee drinkers
being less likely to develop Type 2 diabetes though.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press01052004.html

"The researchers note that caffeine, the best known ingredient in
regular coffee, is known to raise blood sugar and increase energy
expenditure in the short-term, but its long-term effects are not well
understood. Coffee (both regular and decaffeinated) has lots of
antioxidants like chlorogenic acid (one of the compounds responsible for
the coffee flavor) and magnesium. These ingredients can actually improve
sensitivity to insulin and may contribute to lowering risk of type 2
diabetes."

In article said:

It's because of insulin response. This is particularly significant for
low carb schemes that seek control of blood sugar.

Just as sweeteners cause an insulin response, so can (or does)
caffeine. The level of impact is apparently what varies on an
individual basis.

Same issue with various other non-nutritive sweetenes vs sucralose.
The theory behind warning people off of certain "0 Calorie" diet drink
brands says that more people are likely to have more of a response to
aspartame, for instance, than sucralose.

Google or AltaVista "Diet" + "Caffeine" or "Insulin Response" +
"Caffeine"

RC

Luna said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

Exactly.

--

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

--
"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Interesting. I read a report on a study about heavy coffee drinkers
being less likely to develop Type 2 diabetes though.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/press/releases/press01052004.html

"The researchers note that caffeine, the best known ingredient in
regular coffee, is known to raise blood sugar and increase energy
expenditure in the short-term, but its long-term effects are not well
understood. Coffee (both regular and decaffeinated) has lots of
antioxidants like chlorogenic acid (one of the compounds responsible for
the coffee flavor) and magnesium. These ingredients can actually improve
sensitivity to insulin and may contribute to lowering risk of type 2
diabetes."

In article said:

It's because of insulin response. This is particularly significant for
low carb schemes that seek control of blood sugar.

Just as sweeteners cause an insulin response, so can (or does)
caffeine. The level of impact is apparently what varies on an
individual basis.

Same issue with various other non-nutritive sweetenes vs sucralose.
The theory behind warning people off of certain "0 Calorie" diet drink
brands says that more people are likely to have more of a response to
aspartame, for instance, than sucralose.

Google or AltaVista "Diet" + "Caffeine" or "Insulin Response" +
"Caffeine"

RC

Luna said:

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

Just block sender on him, and you won't even have to read his garbage. I
killfiled him the first day I posted...it was obvious really quickly that he
was a troll. Now, I only see his post if someone else responds to it...

--
MO3
305/293/249 first goal

-------------------------------------------------------
"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

"JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why do you ask questions if you don't want to hear the truth?

Why are you such an [censored]? If you don't have something constructive to
add then why do you feel compelled to make derogatory comments?

Sandy, JC is the resident troll, and responding to him does no good
other than to possibly make HIM feel better -- you don't want THAT, do
you? Just killfile or ignore him.

Saffire

--
Saffire
205/127/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

Luna said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

1) Because in the real world there are non-caloric
reasons for some stalls.

Induction attempts to ban foods based on level of risk.
It doesn't take many percent to be enough of a risk to
get banned from Induction - it's a conservative starting
point. Whenever Dr A noticed that something triggered a
lot of stalls he added it to the banned list on
Induction (unless the item mad emoney for Dr A like
the bars, he only banned *other* brands of those).

Apparently Dr A noticed enough people having problems
with caffeine that he put an initial ban on it. Like
anything else but white flour and refined sugar, anything
banned during Induction is eventually tried during the
process later.

I wonder how much of the caffeine ban was actually
people drinking diet sodas with aspartame and he blamed
the wrong cause then never had time to go back and
correct the banned list. Luna posted a link to a study
about caffeine and blood sugar swings to address this.

2) Because carbs are only half of the Atkins process.
Atkins is also about breaking addictions including ones
mild enough you don't have them. This is part of the
food intolerance half of the process.

Caffeine is addictive therefore it gets banned as a
part of the detox boot-camp aspect of Induction. Avoid
caffeine during Induction and you'll exit Induction
not addicted to caffeine. Of course if you started
Induction not addicted (know it or not) and that isn't
much of a change. But there are plenty of people
addicted to caffeine without knowing it or people
slowly moving towards caffeine addiction without knowing
it. Induction breaks those trends.

The caffeine ban was a bit of quackery.

HTH
--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder how much of the caffeine ban was actually
people drinking diet sodas with aspartame and he blamed
the wrong cause then never had time to go back and
correct the banned list. Luna posted a link to a study
about caffeine and blood sugar swings to address this.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug Freyburger said:

Luna said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

1) Because in the real world there are non-caloric
reasons for some stalls.

Induction attempts to ban foods based on level of risk.
It doesn't take many percent to be enough of a risk to
get banned from Induction - it's a conservative starting
point. Whenever Dr A noticed that something triggered a
lot of stalls he added it to the banned list on
Induction (unless the item mad emoney for Dr A like
the bars, he only banned *other* brands of those).

Apparently Dr A noticed enough people having problems
with caffeine that he put an initial ban on it. Like
anything else but white flour and refined sugar, anything
banned during Induction is eventually tried during the
process later.

I wonder how much of the caffeine ban was actually
people drinking diet sodas with aspartame and he blamed
the wrong cause then never had time to go back and
correct the banned list. Luna posted a link to a study
about caffeine and blood sugar swings to address this.

2) Because carbs are only half of the Atkins process.
Atkins is also about breaking addictions including ones
mild enough you don't have them. This is part of the
food intolerance half of the process.

Caffeine is addictive therefore it gets banned as a
part of the detox boot-camp aspect of Induction. Avoid
caffeine during Induction and you'll exit Induction
not addicted to caffeine. Of course if you started
Induction not addicted (know it or not) and that isn't
much of a change. But there are plenty of people
addicted to caffeine without knowing it or people
slowly moving towards caffeine addiction without knowing
it. Induction breaks those trends.

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

So all a heroin addict has to do is go on induction?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug Freyburger said:

Luna said:

JC Der Koenig wrote:

> Caffeine can't stall anyone, as it has no calories.

Then why is induction supposed to be caffeine free? Is it because of
water retention or sumpin'?

1) Because in the real world there are non-caloric
reasons for some stalls.

Induction attempts to ban foods based on level of risk.
It doesn't take many percent to be enough of a risk to
get banned from Induction - it's a conservative starting
point. Whenever Dr A noticed that something triggered a
lot of stalls he added it to the banned list on
Induction (unless the item mad emoney for Dr A like
the bars, he only banned *other* brands of those).

Apparently Dr A noticed enough people having problems
with caffeine that he put an initial ban on it. Like
anything else but white flour and refined sugar, anything
banned during Induction is eventually tried during the
process later.

I wonder how much of the caffeine ban was actually
people drinking diet sodas with aspartame and he blamed
the wrong cause then never had time to go back and
correct the banned list. Luna posted a link to a study
about caffeine and blood sugar swings to address this.

2) Because carbs are only half of the Atkins process.
Atkins is also about breaking addictions including ones
mild enough you don't have them. This is part of the
food intolerance half of the process.

Caffeine is addictive therefore it gets banned as a
part of the detox boot-camp aspect of Induction. Avoid
caffeine during Induction and you'll exit Induction
not addicted to caffeine. Of course if you started
Induction not addicted (know it or not) and that isn't
much of a change. But there are plenty of people
addicted to caffeine without knowing it or people
slowly moving towards caffeine addiction without knowing
it. Induction breaks those trends.

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
Nicholson

Yes, as long as there is no heroin allowed on induction, it would work
great. ;-)

--
Cheri

JC Der Koenig wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

So all a heroin addict has to do is go on induction?

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

Cheers!

But why would I want to break addictions to things that aren't
unhealthy?

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

So all a heroin addict has to do is go on induction?

So long as they stay off Heroin for 2 weeks, why not? :-)

Why? Are you an opiate addict?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

Cheers!

But why would I want to break addictions to things that aren't
unhealthy?

If it's not unhealthy, it's not addiction IMHO.
Weight lifting comes to mind.

If it's not bad for you then it's not an addiction; it's a healthy
habit. <lol>

I got off of coffee for other reasons but am thinking about going back
to it due to it's thermogenic properties now that my digestive system is
functioning better than it has in years!

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Obviously, you're still searching for a clue.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

So all a heroin addict has to do is go on induction?

So long as they stay off Heroin for 2 weeks, why not? :-)

Why? Are you an opiate addict?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
Nicholson

Take that act to the nearest rehab clinic, post haste.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, as long as there is no heroin allowed on induction, it would work
great. ;-)

--
Cheri

JC Der Koenig wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

So all a heroin addict has to do is go on induction?

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

IMHO induction helps to break ALL of your addictions...
I think that's the whole point of it. <lol>

Cheers!

But why would I want to break addictions to things that aren't
unhealthy?

If it's not unhealthy, it's not addiction IMHO.
Weight lifting comes to mind.

Ok, how can you be addicted to weight lifting anyway? I'm talking here
about having a biological, chemical dependence on a substance, not just
a habit.