cartridge hubs on euro racers?

And do they dress on the left or the right??

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

They ride Dura Ace or Record, I would imagine. I don't think they care
much whether it'scup/cone or cartridge.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

anyone that races mavic, and lots do, use cartridge. why do you ask?

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

They ride Dura Ace or Record, I would imagine. I don't think they care
much whether it'scup/cone or cartridge.

Actually, I don't think they are using Dura Ace or Record hubs... most
teams have specific wheel sponsers, and use fancy lightweight carbon
rimmed wheels when they want to go fast. I'd wager that most of these
use cartridge bearings. Discovery at least, also replaces wheels after
a mere few hundred miles.

Ron Ruff said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

They ride Dura Ace or Record, I would imagine. I don't think they care
much whether it'scup/cone or cartridge.

Actually, I don't think they are using Dura Ace or Record hubs... most
teams have specific wheel sponsers, and use fancy lightweight carbon
rimmed wheels when they want to go fast. I'd wager that most of these
use cartridge bearings. Discovery at least, also replaces wheels after
a mere few hundred miles.

Do you mean "replaces tubulars after a mere few hundred miles", isn't?
^^^^^^^^

Francesco Devittori said:

Do you mean "replaces tubulars after a mere few hundred miles", isn't?

No... the whole wheel. This was from a TdF mechanic and was discussed
on this NG this year. They avoid having to rebuild the bearings that
way... or anything else for that matter. I think they were Bontrager
wheels... part of the Trek brand.

Actually, it makes sense... with millions at stake and limited time,
why chance it?

So... think twice before assuming that the pro's wheels would be good
for you... unless you are ok with replacing them often.

Ron Ruff said:

Actually, I don't think they are using Dura Ace or Record hubs...

It depends on what wheels they use. The hubs on Campagnolo wheels such
as Eurus and Bora are, as far as I know, internally identical to
Campagnolo Record hubs. Fulcrum wheels are more of the same.

-as

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

Bontrager are cart hubs, as are the Mavics. Campagnolo are cup and
ball.

Ron Ruff said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

They ride Dura Ace or Record, I would imagine. I don't think they care
much whether it'scup/cone or cartridge.

Actually, I don't think they are using Dura Ace or Record hubs... most
teams have specific wheel sponsers, and use fancy lightweight carbon
rimmed wheels when they want to go fast. I'd wager that most of these
use cartridge bearings. Discovery at least, also replaces wheels after
a mere few hundred miles.

No Ron is right. They change wheels after a few stages...to keep
everything 'fresh'.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Ron Ruff said:

Jasper Janssen said:

On 21 Oct 2005 09:20:38 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

>does lance et al. use ball and cone or cartridge hubs?

They ride Dura Ace or Record, I would imagine. I don't think they care
much whether it'scup/cone or cartridge.

Actually, I don't think they are using Dura Ace or Record hubs... most
teams have specific wheel sponsers, and use fancy lightweight carbon
rimmed wheels when they want to go fast. I'd wager that most of these
use cartridge bearings. Discovery at least, also replaces wheels after
a mere few hundred miles.

No Ron is right. They change wheels after a few stages...to keep
everything 'fresh'.

Are you guys saying a typcial Discovery Channel rider uses 25-50 pairs
of wheels a year (say 90 race days) and the rest are discarded or
sold by the team?

No way.

JT

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Note that this was in the context of the TdF. I doubt they would toss
wheels like that year round. I'd be curious whether these wheels wind
up floating around on eBay in Europe.

Anyway, it seems perfectly plausible to me. Trek pays for the wheels
so the mechanics have zero incentive to save money.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Are you guys saying a typcial Discovery Channel rider uses 25-50 pairs
of wheels a year (say 90 race days) and the rest are discarded or
sold by the team?

No way.

90 race days? The Tour is only three weeks long. Discovery *only* race(d)
the Tour, and so did US Postal before them.

Jasper

back to the factory

given the different performance characteristics assumed during the last
weeks cartridge discussion
the following questions pop in
frictionwise-is the B/C adjustable to beyond cartridge spec? or
subjective handling performance?
or does mechanics performance fall off adjusting multiple batches of
B/C so much so the riders learn to distrust the B/C
ie-adj 500 B/C is a huge PITA
and the probability as mentioned enduro is enough and greater mil spec
may not be streetable but greater mil spec can be TdF
my head said a 100 miler is faster on a quality B/C adjustment (wheels
cones spec?) but i get the answer in the TdF mass production not
imagined

Quoted message said:

given the different performance characteristics assumed during the last
weeks cartridge discussion
the following questions pop in
frictionwise-is the B/C adjustable to beyond cartridge spec? or
subjective handling performance?
or does mechanics performance fall off adjusting multiple batches of
B/C so much so the riders learn to distrust the B/C
ie-adj 500 B/C is a huge PITA
and the probability as mentioned enduro is enough and greater mil spec
may not be streetable but greater mil spec can be TdF
my head said a 100 miler is faster on a quality B/C adjustment (wheels
cones spec?) but i get the answer in the TdF mass production not
imagined

i think the majority of opinion is from those with a vested interest in
trying to not look stupid in the face of their previous writings on
these subjects, and/or from those who haven't bothered to do any
technical investigation.

as the owner of a pair of "high friction" mavic cartridge bearing
wheels, i was expecting them to have higher rolling resistance to cup
and cone wheels. but reality is, there's no such problem. i've done
several coasting tests for both types and find them to be completely
indiscernible from each other. i /do/ notice high friction when turning
slowly in my hand, but also remember that the majority of the friction
comes from the seals, not the races. and the seals ride on a layer of
grease. /if/ the grease were to shift mode to hydrodynamic
separation,[1] which is /not/ going on at hand-turning speed, then the
friction would drop dramatically. perhaps one of our "engineers" will
test rather than just give opinion.

i say that all things considered, if the sealed bearings hold out in
winter riding, they are the way to go because they are fully replaceable
and offer much longer potential service intervals.

[1] hydrodynamic separation of two surfaces sliding relative to one
another is different to elasto-hydrodynamic separation experience by
ball bearings at high speed. another example of hydrodynamic separation
is the journal bearings on the crankshaft of a car engine. at rest, a
car engine is high friction and hard to turn, but when running and the
hydrodynamic layer has initiated, friction is very low.

uh, is there an oath involved?
a good seal would help. the front alivio went thru a long monsoon
period this spring-70% washout of the finish line teflon with
trojaneeeze after a passing aramadilo ate the seals. but in B/C, dirt
has an escape path into the berm; with cartridge the escape route is
barricaded by the race-one gets the coconut flakes disappearing into
the choc pudding effect.
a better seal is a good seal with cart bearings!
your comment on subjectivity in the hand held bearing and the PITA
number for race mechanics deafinitely steers the peliton into the cart
b arena
what's the breakdown at the crit?

jim beam said:

[1] hydrodynamic separation of two surfaces sliding relative to one
another is different to elasto-hydrodynamic separation experience by
ball bearings at high speed. another example of hydrodynamic separation
is the journal bearings on the crankshaft of a car engine. at rest, a
car engine is high friction and hard to turn, but when running and the
hydrodynamic layer has initiated, friction is very low.

It's a lot easier to turn with the head off, though, which suggests
compression is not an insignificant contributor.

Jasper

or take the plugs out

Jasper Janssen said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Are you guys saying a typcial Discovery Channel rider uses 25-50 pairs
of wheels a year (say 90 race days) and the rest are discarded or
sold by the team?

No way.

90 race days? The Tour is only three weeks long. Discovery *only* race(d)
the Tour, and so did US Postal before them.

Jasper

That may be the only event Armstrong cared much about, but Discovery
entered a lot of other races. You might want to check what team the
winner of the Giro d'Italia this year rode for.

Dave Lehnen