Worst Commute

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

[1] When I got rid of the car I wanted to track how much out of pocket I
would be. For the record, it's actually the other way around - since 1st
Jan this year, I've saved 4,427 UKP. Even deducting the 2,296 UKP I've
spent on taxis, trains and bike depreciation/maintenance, I'm still easily
quids in.

Is that comparing real cost of the car to you, or 40p/25p per mile? (I
suppose the question is is this for 21,000 miles this year?)

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[1] When I got rid of the car I wanted to track how much out of pocket I
would be. For the record, it's actually the other way around - since 1st
Jan this year, I've saved 4,427 UKP. Even deducting the 2,296 UKP I've
spent on taxis, trains and bike depreciation/maintenance, I'm still easily
quids in.

Is that comparing real cost of the car to you, or 40p/25p per mile? (I
suppose the question is is this for 21,000 miles this year?)

I'm afraid I'm a real anorak and worked out the cost from first principles:

Depreciation = new cost - discount - value at 3 years as per whatcar
Lost interest @ rate in a rather dull savings account
Insurance @ rate indicated by an online broker quote form
VED @ usual rate
Maintenance costs estimated from lexfreechoice.com

All this gives a monthly fixed cost and then I record all journeys and
add, as necessary:

fuel cost based on current price of fuel
any tolls/parking charges I would have had to pay

Told you I was a sad git.

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Well, /second/ worst in truth I suppose. But grim, grim, grim from a
weather POV.

Sheeting rain and hardly any wind at 0600 this morning. Discovered that my
waterproof boots are rather deficient in what should be their defining
characteristic. And the pockets in my jacket leaked, causing my personal
stereo to opt for early retirement.

That's nowt pal. Yesterday setting out on my 12 mile commute home at 1600,
my rear tyre exploded leaving a hole in the side wall which I didn't spot,
so my spare inner tube also exploded when I tried to pump it up. It was 1620
and raining. Luckily there was a LBS a 30 minute walk away - I got there at
1650 but the bugger had shut early.

4 miles away was a Halfords (shuts at 2000), so I walked all the way there
arriving at 1800. Bought the only tyre there in my size (Schwalbe Stelvio) +
2 inner tubes for 20 quid. Fitted it in 20 minutes and finally got home at
1845.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[1] When I got rid of the car I wanted to track how much out of pocket I
would be. For the record, it's actually the other way around - since 1st
Jan this year, I've saved 4,427 UKP. Even deducting the 2,296 UKP I've
spent on taxis, trains and bike depreciation/maintenance, I'm still
easily quids in.

Is that comparing real cost of the car to you, or 40p/25p per mile? (I
suppose the question is is this for 21,000 miles this year?)

I'm afraid I'm a real anorak and worked out the cost from first
principles:

Depreciation = new cost - discount - value at 3 years as per whatcar
Lost interest @ rate in a rather dull savings account
Insurance @ rate indicated by an online broker quote form
VED @ usual rate
Maintenance costs estimated from lexfreechoice.com

All this gives a monthly fixed cost and then I record all journeys and
add, as necessary:

fuel cost based on current price of fuel
any tolls/parking charges I would have had to pay

Told you I was a sad git.

Ah, thought you were getting unnecessarily high numbers.

If I were to get rid of the car, it'd save me at most 2000 quid/year - and
that would be a very bad year for maintenance. Bike/train/taxi would wipe
that out for the journeys replaced - cars can be very cheap to own/run.

Not that I don't applaud your getting rid of the second car (same applies to
Guy BTW) - it's just that your numerical justification isn't necessarily
generally applicable.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Told you I was a sad git.

Ah, thought you were getting unnecessarily high numbers.

If I were to get rid of the car, it'd save me at most 2000 quid/year - and
that would be a very bad year for maintenance. Bike/train/taxi would wipe
that out for the journeys replaced - cars can be very cheap to own/run.

Not that I don't applaud your getting rid of the second car (same applies to
Guy BTW) - it's just that your numerical justification isn't necessarily
generally applicable.

My "numerical justification" is /very/ relevant to /me/! Which is the
only comparison I intended.

I'm sure I could run a 7 year old car and do half the maintenance myself
for a much lower sum. But as I've never actually done this before, it
wouldn't be a good baseline for me. Equally, if cost reduction were the
real motivation, I'd travel on buses rather taxis and not buy first
class rail tickets so often.

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My "numerical justification" is /very/ relevant to /me/! Which is the only
comparison I intended.

Unfortunately you presented it in a public place - there's an obvious
implication that 'not using a car could save you x quid'. You may not have
intended it to be there, but that doesn't stop it happening.

Anyway, we've both made our points now, so the record is safe, which is
mostly what I wanted to happen. And FWIW I'm not actually trying to get at
you :-)

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>[1] When I got rid of the car I wanted to track how much out of pocket I
>would be. For the record, it's actually the other way around - since 1st
>Jan this year, I've saved 4,427 UKP. Even deducting the 2,296 UKP I've
>spent on taxis, trains and bike depreciation/maintenance, I'm still
>easily quids in.

Is that comparing real cost of the car to you, or 40p/25p per mile? (I
suppose the question is is this for 21,000 miles this year?)

I'm afraid I'm a real anorak and worked out the cost from first
principles:

Depreciation = new cost - discount - value at 3 years as per whatcar
Lost interest @ rate in a rather dull savings account
Insurance @ rate indicated by an online broker quote form
VED @ usual rate
Maintenance costs estimated from lexfreechoice.com

All this gives a monthly fixed cost and then I record all journeys and
add, as necessary:

fuel cost based on current price of fuel
any tolls/parking charges I would have had to pay

Told you I was a sad git.

Ah, thought you were getting unnecessarily high numbers.

If I were to get rid of the car, it'd save me at most 2000 quid/year - and
that would be a very bad year for maintenance. Bike/train/taxi would wipe
that out for the journeys replaced - cars can be very cheap to own/run.

Not that I don't applaud your getting rid of the second car (same applies to
Guy BTW) - it's just that your numerical justification isn't necessarily
generally applicable.

cheers,
clive

OTOH, Clive's figures are more typical of someone who doesn't need to
rely on the car to any great extent. That means one can get away with a
less reliable vehicle (and probably doesn't care so much about comfort
either). My car was similarly cheap, but there were a couple of times
when the MOT was due that I found it would not move and I had to drop
off the keys at the garage (handily just round the corner) :-) If the
failures had coincided with a planned use then...I would probably have
had to drop out of a trailquest or something equally momentous.
Commuting every day by car is may be a slightly different proposition
(although I did actually use the car for this too, but only for a few
months).

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

Clive George said:

If I were to get rid of the car, it'd save me at most 2000 quid/year - and
that would be a very bad year for maintenance. Bike/train/taxi would wipe

If I got rid of my only car I'd save about £2000 p.a. in direct costs,
but depreciation is a valid inclusion as it directly relates to money
that may otherwise be in the bank or the local pubs till! - may be
£1500 to £2000 p.a. for the last few years (obviously, this depends on
your car), reducing as it gets older.

Quoted message said:

that out for the journeys replaced - cars can be very cheap to own/run.

It doesn't feel like it when it takes £60 to fill the petrol tank :-(
My car is, aside from mortgages and tax, the most expensive thing I
run.

OTOH, without a car I could not make some of the trips I need to make
and the cost (and time) of making them by bus, taxi and walking
between "public transport collection points" (which are either not
close to my house, work or anywhere else I need to go or the delay
between each bus, train, etc. is so long it would be quicker to crawl)
would be completely impractical.

It would be quicker for me to cycle at 10MPH to work than to catch
buses, which would take almost 2 hours or taxies that would cost about
£20 per day vs 40 minutes in the car and £6 of petrol. Of course, I'm
always late so I haven't had the time to cycle to work yet :-(

TBH The "easiest" way that I can see to save money from 2 wheels, for
(most) >5 mile and <15 mile commuters, *may* be to switch to a moped,
or low cc motorbike, with a bicycle for better weather/shorter trips
and an "occasional use" car for weekly shops or transporting relatives
- you can't really ask your 60+ mother to ride on the back of a moped
in a winter rain/hail storm instead of a car with Climate Control...
Well you can, but your inheritance may go to the cats ;-)

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"Stuart Millington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

If I were to get rid of the car, it'd save me at most 2000 quid/year - and
that would be a very bad year for maintenance. Bike/train/taxi would wipe

If I got rid of my only car I'd save about £2000 p.a. in direct costs,
but depreciation is a valid inclusion as it directly relates to money
that may otherwise be in the bank or the local pubs till! - may be
£1500 to £2000 p.a. for the last few years (obviously, this depends on
your car), reducing as it gets older.

Quoted message said:

that out for the journeys replaced - cars can be very cheap to own/run.

It doesn't feel like it when it takes £60 to fill the petrol tank :-(
My car is, aside from mortgages and tax, the most expensive thing I
run.

Ah, I see your problem - you're doing it wrong. Swap bikes and cars in the
hierarchy of capital expenditure (too hard to do it for running costs unless
you get rid of the car completely), and you're well away. FWIW my 2K
included depreciation - not hard, since the car cost less than any of the
bikes.

(This is a rule I've been working towards for a while - I think putting the
SON on the Brompton enabled me to finally elevate that into its correct
place.).

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

unless you get rid of the car completely

Like I said, not practical when you transport 60+ (age, not quantity -
I don't have a bus!) relatives, i.e. my mother to my sister's house,
as my mother does not like driving on dual carriageways, nor in the
rain, nor bright sunshine, nor in traffic, nor... 8-}

Quoted message said:

FWIW my 2K
included depreciation - not hard, since the car cost less than any of the
bikes.

Ah, my car is a Y reg 406 Estate which I got 33% off list when I
bought it a year old with 400 delivery miles on the clock directly
from the garage. So, it's depreciated about £6K in 3 years - and it'll
be about half that in the next 3.

My bike was £99 + £20 bits + £10 for lights + £20 for a lock and + £10
for a padded seat cover ( ;-) and £30 insurance, so about £190 all up
for the first year.

Although, I have considered selling the car and then buying an old
diesel to run on sunflower oil ;-)

I also considered attaching a small diesel motor to my bike to run on
sunflower oil - but I think I was about to leave the pub when I
thought that 8-)

I can't do the weekly shop on a bike - without making multiple trips -
my days of having multiple carrier bags hanging off the handle bars
are over! - or going to a local, higher-priced, shop. And, I'm not yet
re-"acclimatised" to riding in the cold, rain etc. At least on a
moped/motorcycle, the weight penalty of wearing leathers, insulation,
a full helmet and panniers are minimised.

Also, I don't have any nearby relatives, who have a large car for the
occasional large load that I could not transport by bicycle - or even
a small car. The two nearest have a Micra and a Lupo. So, the cost of
transporting such occasional loads could cost more than I would save
on tax and insurance.

My only realistic short term option is to get fit(er|ish) then cycle
when I can and save some petrol money.

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